Hsv Announces 6.2 L Ls3 317 Kw

[WOTDAH]

Originally Posted by xw gtho phase 2

talking crap or are u a fpv insider ?

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

He is guessing, same as everyone else in this thread who has a hissy fit without even knowing what Ford have to offer in the FG GT. :

Until FPV confirm the details these threads are pointless.

I'm not confirming the figures but I am alot closer to FPV than most on this forum. I have been over the FG GT inside and out and there is alot of information that I can share. But I wont. I like my Job.

[loltastic]

Originally Posted by BAGTp001

Ok has anyone seen a VE SS or HSV on the drag strip? What time did it run NO BS? and stock

About 2 months ago at Willowbank I saw 3 SSV, 2 SS, 2 FPV GT and one 1 FPV GT Cobra (302kw) Only one of them managed to get into the 13's and that was the Cobra, running a 13.9 @ 103mph. All the others, SSV, SS and GT were all in the mid to high 14's @ 98-100mph.

[dave289]

Considering the ford is only 5.4 with what should be 320 kw in the new gt then 317 kw from a 6.2 seems a bit average as by compared to ford it should be putting out about 350+ kw.If ford can get 320 from a 5.4 imagine what a ford 6.2 would put out.looks like holden need the bigger engine to match the power of the ford.i know that the holden v8 is faster than the ford v8,but really, who goes around racing there car all day.The ford has far better built quality than the holden.a holden mate of mine who works for bob jane says how much better the fords are when it comes to the way they are built and especially in the suspenion and components used around it.just for an example a 95 ef falcon with 272,000 kms on the clock that i sold yesterday felt tighter in more ways than one than an 03 v8 monaro with 72,000 on the clock i drove last week.might be hard to believe but its a fact.as far as tightness my 130,000 km ba felt like a new car by comparison to the munro.munro diff bush gone steering bushes gone on a car driven mildly with only 72,000 kms on board,poor build quality by comparison.not to mention window switches and other stuff.I have been in a f6typhoon 6 speed manual at the lights and had some nob in a hsv with 297kw(so the badge said)pull up beside and start revving for a race.i was not driving but my gave the f6 a bootful and left the hsv .i could not believe the thrust in this thing.I believe that the new f6 will smoke both the ford and holden v8.

[Wally]

Yeah but what is the area under the power and torque curves of each?

[fmc351]

Killer Wasps?

[T3ts50]

Originally Posted by swan_ford

lol. who wants to buy a bigger engine that weigh's more and uses more fuel for 317KW??? fords 5.4's are gonna own this thing!!

It actually weighs the same as the LS2.

[merlin]

Wow power and capacity just keep going up and up. Who the hell can afford to fuel these things?

I buy a car to use daily, not for weekend joy rides so I'll stick with my turbos - economy off boost, power there when you want it. The new FG F6 is going to be a cracker.

[Quicksand]

Originally Posted by loltastic

About 2 months ago at Willowbank I saw 3 SSV, 2 SS, 2 FPV GT and one 1 FPV GT Cobra (302kw) Only one of them managed to get into the 13's and that was the Cobra, running a 13.9 @ 103mph. All the others, SSV, SS and GT were all in the mid to high 14's @ 98-100mph.

When i went down for the first time when my car was stock i raced a VE R8 three times in a row and a fourth time at the end of the night. I beat him all 3 times in my stock T and then he finally got a good take off and beat me on the last run of the night. Was mid 13's for his best run i believe. He was averaging low 14's all night for the other runs.

Nice car but struggling for traction from gear to gear.

Here are two of my races with him. My mates calls the first one as a 12.8 at the end but he misread the board; i only did a 13.8
1) http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x..._XR6T_Run2.flv
2) http://s185.photobucket.com/albums/x..._XR6T_Run1.flv

Originally Posted by xw gtho phase 2

appreciate ur point of view
i bought my car not on kw alone ....
i bought it cause overall it is a better prefomance car the brakes are outstanding 365 mm fronts ap racing calipers ....
19x9.5 rear rims 275 inch tyres think about the brakes and the size of the rubber alone in a prefomance aspect if both cars had the same kw its obvious which one would preform better ....

Tex & 'xw gtho phase 2' can i just start by saying thanks for standing up and having a friendly discussion rather than an ego war i am enjoying the discussion of this thread. I just wanted to mention costs. I am sure Ford could put on huge brakes and huge tyres but i feel they have a package that is more fine-tuned to families and general/small-time enthusiasts as opposed to die-hard performance junkies.

Consider the tyre information presented in point 9 on the website below:

http://forums.melbccr.com/showthread.php?p=1085659

To quote some information from this website (i know this is just one site quoting this information but i believe the costs of replacing tyres on VE is already well known):

The cost of replacing original tyres has increased on VE Commodore8

-A set of four new tyres on the current Commodore Executive costs approximately $500 RRP. A set of four new tyres on the VE Commodore Omega costs $928 RRP (or $232 RRP each). This represents an 85% price increase
-In comparison, a set of four replacement tyres on the BF Falcon XT, Futura or Fairmont costs just $569.52 RRP (or $142.38 RRP each)
-VE Commodore SS-V 19" tyres RRP = $3,789 for a set of four (or $947.40 RRP each)
-VE Commodore optional 20" tyres RRP = $4,316 for a set of four (or $1,079 RRP each)

I can only imagine how expensive it is to also have to replace any of the brake components; maybe someone can provide this information?

Huge tyres, huge brakes etc are all well and good while the car is new but the minute money is needed on the general wear and tear of these components huge amounts of money need to be forked out in comparison to the Fords. Once again i am sure Ford could follow the same path but i believe in this aspect they have thought about it a little more.

just some additional thoughts

[Quicksand]

Originally Posted by merlin

Wow power and capacity just keep going up and up. Who the hell can afford to fuel these things?

I buy a car to use daily, not for weekend joy rides so I'll stick with my turbos - economy off boost, power there when you want it. The new FG F6 is going to be a cracker.

+1 agreed

[HSE2]

Which spec Boss is being compared to what here?

[Clint Eastwood]

Originally Posted by xw gtho phase 2

is that a good thing ? dosent alloy and cast iron have different expansion cooling/ heating rates not sayin its a bad thing but is it a plus ?



cheers

I believe they do have differant expansion and contraction rates,but if the correct coolant is used to prevent electolysis etc it shouldnt be a problem,alot of people complain about rust from cast blocks but have put tap water in it there whole lives, I wouldnt know what the better material is but didnt hsv have a problem with there alloy blocks warping a few years ago??? Due to not enough wall thickness and or over heating.

[McobraR]

Originally Posted by Wally

You know a Holden engineer? Perhaps he was talking about torque convertor capacity?

Nope, but i was referring to an article where i think it was a holden engineer mentioning how 550nm was kept due to some drivetrain components reliability or some crap like that

[SNB05T]

Originally Posted by ea90gl

To all these people that never line another person up because they value thier car or dont want to lose thier licence etc etc are you all serious? You have never done this before? This is normal to many of us and many people do it within reason. Provided you dont light up the rears 100m down the road and drag to 160km/h in a built up area theres nothing wrong at all. With all due respect why would anyone buy a 300KW V8 if they dont intend to use it? Why not just buy a little Corolla or something?

yes i am serious, i don't do it anymore (especially after the fuzz threatened to take my car off me). don't get me wrong, a bit of fun between mates at the posted speed limit outside of peak hour traffic i do because we're not going to hurt anyone and can control it, but when it gets serious i prefer to take it to wsid of wakefield. not going to hurt anything there.

thats my reason/excuse and im sticking to it and getting back on topic

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by merlin

Wow power and capacity just keep going up and up. Who the hell can afford to fuel these things?

I buy a car to use daily, not for weekend joy rides so I'll stick with my turbos - economy off boost, power there when you want it. The new FG F6 is going to be a cracker.

Turbo > Cubes, i never used to think this, but turbos seem to be the way for the future. The 80's turbo car was just a jumped start...

...thats only if the bigblocks don't have the Cylinder deactivation of course

[Clint Eastwood]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Turbo > Cubes, i never used to think this, but turbos seem to be the way for the future. The 80's turbo car was just a jumped start...

...thats only if the bigblocks don't have the Cylinder deactivation of course

A modded turbo that it thrashed will not deliver much better fuel economy then a modded V8,I should know I have one of each.

When I fill up my tanks the trip goes upto around 480 in the 8 and around 500 in the 6, Im sorry but if petrol prices bother you then 300kw performance cars probly are not for you.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by Wally

GM 6L80E maximum gearbox torque 900Nm.

It’s not the auto that is the issue.

Maximum engine torque is much lower than 900nm anyway. Pretty sure it can’t be fitted to the W427 hence it isn't an option for that car.

[tex]

Originally Posted by ea90gl

To all these people that never line another person up because they value thier car or dont want to lose thier licence etc etc are you all serious? You have never done this before? This is normal to many of us and many people do it within reason. Provided you dont light up the rears 100m down the road and drag to 160km/h in a built up area theres nothing wrong at all. With all due respect why would anyone buy a 300KW V8 if they dont intend to use it? Why not just buy a little Corolla or something?

Oh dear.

The lights must have dimmed when you wrote that pearl of wisdom. The power of thought must have been momentus.

Let me guess, still on your P's, or are you already old enough to drink in America?

Hopefuly you will find when you can actually afford to go buy the new 300kw car, you will actually know the difference between acting like a spud on the street, and saving your adrenaline for a race track.

"As long as you don't drag to 160km/h in a built up area" Think about that for a few moments. Drag 'em up to 140 in a built up area would be ok? Yeh right.

Let me tell you this, I WILL utilise in excess of 300kw from my car, but not on the street. And I don't like little Corollas.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by edda bah

A modded turbo that it thrashed will not deliver much better fuel economy then a modded V8,I should know I have one of each.

When I fill up my tanks the trip goes upto around 480 in the 8 and around 500 in the 6, Im sorry but if petrol prices bother you then 300kw performance cars probly are not for you.

There is exceptions, you could say that a modded, thrashed big block will do the same.

I’m not really that biased toward either, if i had a chance to own a 460 cube XB (or somthing equally insane) i wouldn't knock it back :, but things like 'Flash tuning' and 'Boost controllers' offer on the fly adjustments...

...but then there are turboded V8's, and the natural lowdoen touque that bigblocks have (if you cafefull with the right foot, i understand a Big cube v8 is just as efficient has lower cube ones)

But from my understanding, turbo motors meet emmissions laws easier on a power/Co2 output/ecomomy basis?

[TheSneakiness]

Originally Posted by BAGTp001

Ok has anyone seen a VE SS or HSV on the drag strip? What time did it run NO BS? and stock

VE Maloo at Willowbank on Saturday was running 13.9's. It was stock, the owner just wanted to see what it'd do.

I believe TUF240 lined up against it. Ask him what it did.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by ea90gl

To all these people that never line another person up because they value thier car or dont want to lose thier licence etc etc are you all serious? You have never done this before? This is normal to many of us and many people do it within reason. Provided you dont light up the rears 100m down the road and drag to 160km/h in a built up area theres nothing wrong at all. With all due respect why would anyone buy a 300KW V8 if they dont intend to use it? Why not just buy a little Corolla or something?

I'm not going to lie, give me a car with a pit of power,and i'll use it on the street time to time, but i'd also be more interested in off street stuff.

Some people may have saved there money for a nice performance car and you dont want to spend 60-odd thousand on a 165kw Falcon these days...

...sif youl want a corolla

[Clint Eastwood]

Originally Posted by Nikked

There is exceptions, you could say that a modded, thrashed big block will do the same.

I’m not really that biased toward either, if i had a chance to own a 460 cube XB (or somthing equally insane) i wouldn't knock it back :, but things like 'Flash tuning' and 'Boost controllers' offer on the fly adjustments...

...but then there are turboded V8's, and the natural lowdoen touque that bigblocks have (if you cafefull with the right foot, i understand a Big cube v8 is just as efficient has lower cube ones)

But from my understanding, turbo motors meet emmissions laws easier on a power/Co2 output/ecomomy basis?

I am not saying that turbo 6's are not more economical, but it is very marginal.

When you start talking about powerful V8's big or small block and high powered turbo 6's, fuel economy should be the last thing on your mind.

I dont think anyone looking at purchasing a 6.2 litre 317kw V8 would be that concerned about the price of petrol.

[ea90gl]

Originally Posted by tex

Oh dear.

The lights must have dimmed when you wrote that pearl of wisdom. The power of thought must have been momentus.

Let me guess, still on your P's, or are you already old enough to drink in America?

Hopefuly you will find when you can actually afford to go buy the new 300kw car, you will actually know the difference between acting like a spud on the street, and saving your adrenaline for a race track.

"As long as you don't drag to 160km/h in a built up area" Think about that for a few moments. Drag 'em up to 140 in a built up area would be ok? Yeh right.

Let me tell you this, I WILL utilise in excess of 300kw from my car, but not on the street. And I don't like little Corollas.

How smart of you to jump to conclusions and thinking that you are dead right but unfortunately for yourself you couldnt be more wrong. Far from a P plater, far from "dragging up to 140Km/h" (saying 160Km/h was being sarcastic genius) and far from anything you could possibly think of. Not sure where your from (maybe your one of them oldies that sit on the front porch and calls the cops once someone gives thier car some revs?) but giving someone a run here and there and actually using your cars potential once in a while on the street is quite normal and many people do it, it far from makes you a "hoon". Nikked and Dan B gave proper replies to my previous post without being smartarses, what makes you think you can do the opposite

Oh hang on a sec, remember your words

Quote:
Originally Posted by xagt_coupe
the better question in my opinion is when DONT I put the boot in.

i love the sound of the V8 on song, so I allways give it plenty. Right from day 1 i have run it upto the 4500 rpm max for klms below 750k's, later today I will go past the 750klms and she will get spun upto 5500 rpm plenty. As soon as the running in is done, I will find where the 302's rev limiter cuts in at.
The clevo I have for the other GT regularly saw 6000 rpm everyday I drove it and sometimes 6500 rpm. Nothing wrong with wringing their necks.

Harden up and drive it like its ment to be. Hard. They will take the abuse with little worry.



Originally Posted by tex
Amen.

Another way of looking at it is how many Ks do you get from a set of tires?

Once my new car has a couple of thou on it, I expect the shift chime will be a sound I hear regularly once the temp and oil pressure is up......

As XA says, they loooov it, and will repay the favour with great gob fulls of Falcon fun.

Let me guess, Just on the strip? lol moron

[Steffo]

The level of engineering going on at GM is astounding.

We've gone from using 5.7litres to make 300kW to using 6.2litres (half a litre more) to only make 17kW more.

Eventually the HSV GTS will have a 25 litre V24 making 400kW @ 3500rpm and FPV will have a TTV6 with the same output but a fifth of the capacity and a quarter of the cylinders...

[schnoods]

Originally Posted by Steffo

The level of engineering going on at GM is astounding.

We've gone from using 5.7litres to make 300kW to using 6.2litres (half a litre more) to only make 17kW more.

Eventually the HSV GTS will have a 25 litre V24 making 400kW @ 3500rpm and FPV will have a TTV6 with the same output but a fifth of the capacity and a quarter of the cylinders...

What they release and the engine capabilities are two different things.

The 225kw LS1 (gen3) that first came out on the VT series2 and the VT clubsport 250kw, same motor with just a different tune. As the models got on the power levels slowly grew, They could have gone all out and gotten 300+ but then they'd be basically pulling the finger at the people who shelled out for a 300kw Senator300 with the Callaway motor. People shelled out to get the best and they arent prepared to basically turn their backs on previous customers, as they more than likely would be future customers.

Just look on the ford side of things, The last of the T series strokers made 250kw, next model and the top of the line model previously has been out done by a XR8 with the Boss 260.

Now with the FG the people who shelled out to buy a GT-P are now going to be on a level Playing field with a entry level XR8. Where as people who shelled out for a Coupe300 arent getting their grass cut by a entry level VE SS either (270kw), a New Clubsport will, but you have to pay for that.

Anyone who has owned or modified an LS series motor knows how easy it is to get power out of it, Holden could easily get more than 270kw on the SS (it has cast headers) but they are already infront of the boss260 and dont want to step on any fingers.

I wonder if anyone who bought a top of the line Typhoon Spec R will be matched (or even outdone) by the FG XR6T. That would be some salt in the wounds.

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by Steffo

The level of engineering going on at GM is astounding.

We've gone from using 5.7litres to make 300kW to using 6.2litres (half a litre more) to only make 17kW more.

Eventually the HSV GTS will have a 25 litre V24 making 400kW @ 3500rpm and FPV will have a TTV6 with the same output but a fifth of the capacity and a quarter of the cylinders...

Hold on Steffo, the Duratec V6 will not have a 5 Litre capacity twin turbo.....

Seriously, 300kw Callaway engine was a low volume, high cost engine that had a specific inlet manifold, cam and different, hand finished cylinder heads among other things. That's why it went into a 90-100K HSV.

The LS3 is a high volume, run of the mill engine that has been detuned a fair way down to 317kw. I estimate that its final evolution will see it somewhere around 350kw.

I know you hate pushrods, but the LS engines are not half as bad as you constantly make them out to be.

Daniel

[schnoods]

Seriously, 300kw Callaway engine was a low volume, high cost engine that had a specific inlet manifold, cam and different, hand finished cylinder heads among other things. That's why it went into a 90-100K HSV.

So was the T series strokers. Im sure they still have the appreciation and Aura of Ford Fans, but the BA did no favours to people who bought them only to be bettered.

[tex]

Originally Posted by ea90gl

How smart of you to jump to conclusions and thinking that you are dead right but unfortunately for yourself you couldnt be more wrong. Far from a P plater, far from "dragging up to 140Km/h" (saying 160Km/h was being sarcastic genius) and far from anything you could possibly think of. Not sure where your from (maybe your one of them oldies that sit on the front porch and calls the cops once someone gives thier car some revs?) but giving someone a run here and there and actually using your cars potential once in a while on the street is quite normal and many people do it, it far from makes you a "hoon". Nikked and Dan B gave proper replies to my previous post without being smartarses, what makes you think you can do the opposite

Oh hang on a sec, remember your words

Quote:
Originally Posted by xagt_coupe
the better question in my opinion is when DONT I put the boot in.

i love the sound of the V8 on song, so I allways give it plenty. Right from day 1 i have run it upto the 4500 rpm max for klms below 750k's, later today I will go past the 750klms and she will get spun upto 5500 rpm plenty. As soon as the running in is done, I will find where the 302's rev limiter cuts in at.
The clevo I have for the other GT regularly saw 6000 rpm everyday I drove it and sometimes 6500 rpm. Nothing wrong with wringing their necks.

Harden up and drive it like its ment to be. Hard. They will take the abuse with little worry.



Originally Posted by tex
Amen.

Another way of looking at it is how many Ks do you get from a set of tires?

Once my new car has a couple of thou on it, I expect the shift chime will be a sound I hear regularly once the temp and oil pressure is up......

As XA says, they loooov it, and will repay the favour with great gob fulls of Falcon fun.

Let me guess, Just on the strip? lol moron

Moron?

Where in my reply to XA did I write about dragging on the street?

Where did I write about utilising the vehicles 'potential' on the street?

No where. And I don't wreckon I'm a good enough pilot to get the full potential from any my cars. But you, you're the race lgend aren't you......

If you want to look through ALL my previous posts bright spark, you'll see that unlike MOST on this forum, I take my cars to the circuit for serious adrenaline, I don't get my rocks off by racing on the street in built up areas. Using your cars potential - Yeh right, try using a couple of hundered RWKW's potential on the street while not falling into the danger zone (not just to yourself - but everyone around you) But by your logic that doesn't constitute being a hoon?

Anyway, i stand by what I said ages ago in this thread, but this time directed at you - grow up.

[WOTDAH]

Dont worry youself tex. He's from Adelaide and he drives an EA. :hihi:

[Wally]

Originally Posted by Steffo

The level of engineering going on at GM is astounding.

We've gone from using 5.7litres to make 300kW to using 6.2litres (half a litre more) to only make 17kW more.

Eventually the HSV GTS will have a 25 litre V24 making 400kW @ 3500rpm and FPV will have a TTV6 with the same output but a fifth of the capacity and a quarter of the cylinders...

Sarcasm aside the new path appears to be a supercharged LS3 (LS9), if the 2009 Corvette is any guide. 620hp

[WindsorXR]

The big power race is going to be what it was like in the 70's if we keep this up. Government will step in and tell us that we have to cap our power output a bit like the '72 scare.
Most Holdens end up in trees and poles anyway, which to me say one of two things. Holden drivers are $h!t drivers or their cars cant handle for $h!t.

If your so worried about a Holden boy racer ( : ) beating you, then how about getting mods done. Which most people end up doing no matter what the car started with.
Also. Holden have a great relationship with their US brothers of GM and can just say "Ford are good but we need to be better!!" and then GMC give them a motor. Ford don't have as good a relationship with our US side.

Maybe less power is a good thing!!!!!.........It'll keep all the driving Holdens. : : : :