Extra tax on tobacco what next?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Just because it doesn't effect you, doesn't mean you shouldn't stand up against it. Maybe you can organise to stand up for smokers, drinkers and gamblers if they agree to protest about extra taxes on cars? Would work quite well with massive numbers.

Maybe people do stand up for what they really believe in? You can't force other people to support your own personal views if they dont believe in them....

[MAD]

Yet people are so blind to see that this is just another item in amongst the many others that are slowly eating away into our rights.
I may not hunt or fish for a living but it can be clearly seen that some of the imposed rules (that dont help the real cause) simply make life harder for those that do.

Empathy is a wonderful thing and it seems its concentration in society is becoming more and more sparse.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by MAD

Yet people are so blind to see that this is just another item in amongst the many others that are slowly eating away into our rights.
I may not hunt or fish for a living but it can be clearly seen that some of the imposed rules (that dont help the real cause) simply make life harder for those that do.

Empathy is a wonderful thing and it seems its concentration in society is becoming more and more sparse.

Push your own barrow mate.... nothing worse that a professional protestor...

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Maybe people do stand up for what they really believe in? You can't force other people to support your own personal views if they dont believe in them....

Not here in Australia, no one stands up for what they believe in.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Not here in Australia, no one stands up for what they believe in.

BS.. if its important enough to them people do stand up for themselves...
Maybe people just dont stand up for what you believe in..

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

a car can be considered to be neccessary ( including larger cars) as we need transport

You must live in the country. I believe there are a number of city folk who don't own a car and think that those who do are nothing but resource wasting pigs.

Originally Posted by au3xr6

but inhaling the smoke from a filthy smoldering weed is never neccessary it is purely self indulgence

So is owning a large 6cyl car but I like it so I'm prepared to pay for it

Originally Posted by au3xr6

this is not a tax on items neccessary for day to day living this is a tax on a completly useless item that shortens life, overloads the health system, impacts on productivity and has a smell that is offensive to those that don't indulge

Ah. You mean like Beer?

[SSD-85]

Not even a third of this country smokes anymore (apparently) so increasing the tax on them is not really going to line their coffers (no pun intended).

So my view on it as a smoker, the govt is just giving themselves a pat on the back in looking good in the eyes of several whinging (but powerful) groups of people. And provide meaningless justification for it (clogging health system, blah blah), so to further hammer into the publics minds that theyre doing a good thing.

For me, I dont really care about the raise in cigarette prices, its just like petrol. Ill keep paying for it. And ill keep enjoying it.

[FGII-XR6]

I live in the lower hunter and there are areas here where a car is the only way you can get anywhare at least a car provides transport tobacco has absolutly no benefits . and no I don't drink beer ( or any other alcohol) i used to but it messed my life up and I've been sober since 2000, so yes I was addicted to a drug and at that time I thought the world should bow to my drug of choice after all it is legal and to tax it was seen by me as discrimatory. I thought it was wrong that beer was taxed as well, how wrong I was

Originally Posted by GasOLane

You must live in the country. I believe there are a number of city folk who don't own a car and think that those who do are nothing but resource wasting pigs. So is owning a large 6cyl car but I like it so I'm prepared to pay for itAh. You mean like Beer?

[snappy]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

a car can be considered to be neccessary ( including larger cars) as we need transport but inhaling the smoke from a filthy smoldering weed is never neccessary it is purely self indulgence so there is really no comparison between the 2. As i have said before smokers are just drug addicts and if you wish to continue to use this drug you now have to pay more, this is not a tax on items neccessary for day to day living this is a tax on a completly useless item that shortens life, overloads the health system, impacts on productivity and has a smell that is offensive to those that don't indulge ( more than 2/3 of the population)

So in other words the other 1/3 of the population can go ******** them selves .

Not all people find the smell offensive so dont pretend you speak for all non smokers. I might find your face offensive but the reality is i wont say a thing because i mind my own business . Unlike a lot of people who think its there god given right to make choices for other people .

I wish i never started smoking i knew they were addictive and they were bad for you but when your a 13yo kid your above it all . I tried many times to quit and have been uncessful and am currently trying again . But at this point my daily fuel bill has risen by 12%.
The simple fact is this price rise is extortion .

[MAD]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Push your own barrow mate.... nothing worse that a professional protestor...

You dont know me too well do you. Where in that was a protest? How is thinking about your fellow man a bad thing?

Originally Posted by 4Vman

BS.. if its important enough to them people do stand up for themselves...
Maybe people just dont stand up for what you believe in..

So that's how society should be is it... Every man for themselves?
That's very very narrow minded of you to only care about what affects you directly.


I honestly cant believe what I am seeing in this thread. Above are perfect examples. I dont know you personally 4V but from other posts I have seen of yours you seem to have your head screwed on, but this thread has shot that out the window.
This is a blatant tax grab, wrapped up in "look at me I'm saving lives", that is estimated to net the gov $5b. That's not pocket money. As has been said, if they were serious, they would either make it illegal or slap a massive tax hike on them in one go, rather than trickle feed it so that people just get used to it.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by snappy

So in other words the other 1/3 of the population can go ******** them selves .

Not all people find the smell offensive so dont pretend you speak for all non smokers. I might find your face offensive but the reality is i wont say a thing because i mind my own business . Unlike a lot of people who think its there god given right to make choices for other people .

I wish i never started smoking i knew they were addictive and they were bad for you but when your a 13yo kid your above it all . I tried many times to quit and have been uncessful and am currently trying again . But at this point my daily fuel bill has risen by 12%.
The simple fact is this price rise is extortion .

Personally i dont know any non smoker that doesnt find the smell or second hand smoke disgusting and offensive...

That said ive got no problems if people want to smoke their lives away, just do it in private away from people who care about their health...

As for the tax? well it doesnt effect me....

When a tax does i'll make a noise.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Personally i dont know any non smoker that doesnt find the smell or second hand smoke disgusting and offensive...

That said ive got no problems if people want to smoke their lives away, just do it in private away from people who care about their health...

As for the tax? well it doesnt effect me....

When a tax does i'll make a noise.

I don't smoke, never have but it doesn't really bother me much, I hang around with the guys at work when they smoke and I don't really mind the smell of it. I don't really like the smell of stale smoke in used cars though, thats quite bad.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by MAD

You dont know me too well do you. Where in that was a protest? How is thinking about your fellow man a bad thing?


So that's how society should be is it... Every man for themselves?
That's very very narrow minded of you to only care about what affects you directly.


I honestly cant believe what I am seeing in this thread. Above are perfect examples. I dont know you personally 4V but from other posts I have seen of yours you seem to have your head screwed on, but this thread has shot that out the window.
This is a blatant tax grab, wrapped up in "look at me I'm saving lives", that is estimated to net the gov $5b. That's not pocket money. As has been said, if they were serious, they would either make it illegal or slap a massive tax hike on them in one go, rather than trickle feed it so that people just get used to it.

Hey i agree 100%, it is a blatant tax grab, if it effects you do something about it, but it doesnt effect me so i really dont care, im a huge believer in equilibrium and democracy...

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by MAD

So that's how society should be is it... Every man for themselves?
That's very very narrow minded of you to only care about what affects you directly.

Yup your right there..... most Aussies have come to the point where they only care about themselves (some dont care about anything).

Try and do the right thing and watch how everyone runs away...

[SVD]

With all due respect to everyone posting in this thread, this is my opinion and my view it is in no way to offend anyone.

I don't smoke, can't stand the smell and assholes who smoke and flick their ******** outta their window's ******** me off to no end, but that being said, i don't believe unfairly taxing anything is the right course of action as they are doing now.

This new tax is ridiculous, one thing we don't need more of in Australia is more taxes and removal of money from the working classes just to make up for Governmental expenditure issues, if it is not due to that then it would have to be for the good of the people (making it more expensive will push people off it right?) which that too is a BS reason.

If it's for the good of the people make it illegal, don't just keep taxing it so you remove the choice to smoke by people who can't afford it!!!

From my point of view it appears Mr Rudd wants to make cigarette's exclusive for anyone with the cash to be able to fork out for the high prices they want to force people to charge with the new tax.

Even though i do not indulge in smoking as it really does make me sick (even the smell when someone walks by with one... :( ) it is the right of anyone who wants to do it regardless of how i feel and this tax is just stupid.

Down with Rudd and Down with his outrageous taxes and BS!!!

[snappy]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Personally i dont know any non smoker that doesnt find the smell or second hand smoke disgusting and offensive...

That said ive got no problems if people want to smoke their lives away, just do it in private away from people who care about their health...

As for the tax? well it doesnt effect me....

When a tax does i'll make a noise.

Well i know a couple of people that do like the smell of it . But i never meet a smoker yet that wants to smoke there life away either . If your worried about your health go start your clevo in your garage close the door light a smoke and see which one kills you first .
Were easy targets and now we are out numbered if it was the other way around and 2/3 of people smoked coming up to the election i would put my money on the government dropping the taxes on smokes .

[GTPete]

What about the elderly that started smoking before it was recognised as a health hazard. What about the Vietnam Vets and WW2 diggers that are addicted. Should we be hammering them in their later years with this tax?
Can they stop smoking after years of being addicted, not likely.
Will pensioners who have smoked for fifty years plus go without a meal to pay for their cigs, yes they will.

Governments are very good at pretending to know whats best or us wether we like it or not.

Heres a short list, Im sure there's many more things that could be added.
Internet censorship wether you like it or not, Smoking tax and intrusive laws into how legal products (smokes) are packaged and marketed, changes to the financial services act allowing banks etc to drill down into your personal spending and payment history, a global warming tax that nearly got thru that would have crippled Aust businesses.

Are we being governed or controlled?

[GasoLane]

Other than the fact that there are probably more non smokers than smokers in Oz, and the Gov is in election mode so this could be a vote grabber. I think there is another reason for raising prices

Has anyone else noticed that over the years we've been told to save water, save power and save gas.

Now upper management (read Govt) has realised that by us using less of each of the above they aren't making as much money as they used to. So the only way to fix this problem is to charge us more.

It's simply good business strategy keep the profit margins up.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by snappy

Were easy targets and now we are out numbered if it was the other way around and 2/3 of people smoked coming up to the election i would put my money on the government dropping the taxes on smokes .

Hey that's life mate and that's democracy, the majority rules!!!

But if you feel strongly enough about it hammer your local federal member.

[MAD]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Hey i agree 100%, it is a blatant tax grab, if it effects you do something about it, but it doesnt effect me so i really dont care, im a huge believer in equilibrium and democracy...

It doesn't affect me either. But that doesnt stop me supporting the opposition of something that is purely made to make money under the guise of saving lives.
I'm a huge believer in common sense and empathy....both items that are slowly being eaten away from society.

Common sense is disappearing because the need to think for yourself is being removed, worksafe tells us what to do at work, to the point that people are not understanding why they are doing what they are doing, only that it is how they've been told to do it.
I dont know why empathy is dieing, but society is certainly moving in the direction of only thinking about ourselves.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by MAD

It doesn't affect me either. But that doesnt stop me supporting the opposition of something that is purely made to make money under the guise of saving lives.
I'm a huge believer in common sense and empathy....both items that are slowly being eaten away from society.

Common sense is disappearing because the need to think for yourself is being removed, worksafe tells us what to do at work, to the point that people are not understanding why they are doing what they are doing, only that it is how they've been told to do it.
I dont know why empathy is dieing, but society is certainly moving in the direction of only thinking about ourselves.

But it does effect you... you're making a noise about it arent you?? See my point? You dont need to be a smoker for it to "effect" you.
If it effects you do something, just dont expect everyone else to adopt a problem because you think its un-just....
Dont just assume everyone else see's things from your perspective.... dont just assume the way you see things is the "right" way either..

[snappy]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Other than the fact that there are probably more non smokers than smokers in Oz, and the Gov is in election mode so this could be a vote grabber. I think there is another reason for raising prices

Has anyone else noticed that over the years we've been told to save water, save power and save gas.

Now upper management (read Govt) has realised that by us using less of each of the above they aren't making as much money as they used to. So the only way to fix this problem is to charge us more.

It's simply good business strategy keep the profit margins up.

Just like when they come out say that the cost of housing is to high and there doing the best to control it . Then in the same week the come out with extreme population growth charts and then puts out a report that were not even building half the amount of houses we need to sustain the growth . Can anyone else think of anyone else besides the seller that benefits from higher house prices. Its manipulation at its best

[snappy]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Hey that's life mate and that's democracy, the majority rules!!!

But if you feel strongly enough about it hammer your local federal member.

No i dont feel that strongly about it because i wish to quit and have since the 20yo member on here come out and said he had enthusema
ill just put in my 2 cents in on election day .
I just dislike the goverment using my flaw or weakness as a atm and try to convince me that its a good thing and i should be thanking them .

[BA Baracus]

I reckon if a smoker does not die of "smoking related illness" (which is fairly debatable in it's scope) then all tobacco tax paid that was allocated directly for health care should be re-payed to their next of kin. After all they pay the same tax as everyone else to cover them should they die of cheeseburgers, skin cancer or get hit by a bus.

We wouldn't want to lump all smokers in the one basket and penalise them for possibly being a plight on the health system or because some do the wrong thing. If we start thinking like that then the car enthusiast vs. hoon separation often brought up on this site is completely out the window isn't it.

People can no longer smoke in workplaces, shopping centers, government buildings, hospital grounds, airports, banks, airplanes, buses, trains, taxis, ferry's, family cars, pubs, clubs, cafes, restaurants, casinos, theme-parks, concerts, festivals, sports events, schools, universities, hotels, motels, movie theaters and the list goes on. They also can't smoke within four meters of a public entrance anywhere. The passive smoking campaign is stretched to the point of becoming very pedantic now and much of the public anti-smoking attitude is tainted by personal prejudice.

You'll be seeing and see much more of this thinking though with a large range of things that Australians may partake in in one way or another. People are becoming highly jaded about, and intolerant of anything that sits outside their direct personal circle of existence. The news sites and blogs are filled daily with rants by people holding fists full of their tax dollars suspecting everyone but themselves of ripping people off.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

a car can be considered to be neccessary ( including larger cars) as we need transport but inhaling the smoke from a filthy smoldering weed is never neccessary it is purely self indulgence so there is really no comparison between the 2. As i have said before smokers are just drug addicts and if you wish to continue to use this drug you now have to pay more, this is not a tax on items neccessary for day to day living this is a tax on a completly useless item that shortens life, overloads the health system, impacts on productivity and has a smell that is offensive to those that don't indulge ( more than 2/3 of the population)

As a smoker, I am are paying the tax on tobacco, therefore supporting the health system. So how can I be a burdon on it?

I've worked in the motor industry for many years and I spent the first 20 years of my life, living in a fibro house. So, judging by all the comments spread throughout the media, there's a bloody big chance I'm going to get cancer.

So I look at it this way. I'll smoke. I'm paying for my health care anyways, so I might as well get my moneys worth from it and enjoy it at the same time

And yes, it's a low act by the powers to be, slugging us the way they did.

[ST]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I hope they don't make smoking illegal too, because i don't want the revenue deficit transferring onto something i might enjoy!

This is the absolute truth. More people need to understand this before jumping on the bandwagon.

[MAD]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

But it does effect you... you're making a noise about it arent you?? See my point? You dont need to be a smoker for it to "effect" you.
If it effects you do something, just dont expect everyone else to adopt a problem because you think its un-just....
Dont just assume everyone else see's things from your perspective.... dont just assume the way you see things is the "right" way either..

The tax on cigs doesnt affect me, its the actions of the gov that do. It's only that I am willing to try the shoe on the other foot and view things outside of a narrow minded "smoking is filthy and wrong" view point, that it seems to be having an effect. Everyone knows the dangers of smoking, but in the end it's their choice, and unfortunately smoking is still legal, so everyone else just has to put up with it.

I never said my view was the right way, simply that in my opinion the government's actions are wrong, and pushed through with a cloak of lies.

[MAD]

Originally Posted by BA Baracus

The passive smoking campaign is stretched to the point of becoming very pedantic now and much of the public anti-smoking attitude is tainted by personal prejudice.

Much similar to the way the public has been trained to believe that any speed over the posted limit is going to kill everyone.
Maybe a similar tact should be adopted towards obesity (the nations next largest killer)...public shaming in the same manner being lumped upon smokers.
I wonder when a big mac will be hit with a 300% tax.

[zdcol71]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Not here in Australia, no one stands up for what they believe in.

Damo, you may be "The cool kid", but I'm guessing you are also a young kid with that sort of line.No disrespect, but have a look around at the broader community and see how many stick up for what they believe in.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by ST

This is the absolute truth. More people need to understand this before jumping on the bandwagon.

Yes.. for some inexplicable reason a % of the adult population truly believe the polies personally collect and keep the revenue for themselves....

The fact is we've seen gradual decreases in income tax to impress voters but this creates a shortfall in revenue, especially when govts go on spending sprees such as the Stimulus package.
The money has to come from somewhere, income tax is broadly unpopular, taxes on "anti social" habits are an easy target and win votes.