Ford vows to fight on after July shutdown

[JPFS1]

cost to build...?

90% of the of the manufacture process is the same between small and large car.

70% of the cost is the same between small to large car. The main difference is B.O.M costs. Very slim margin in small car production, the reason why Focus was canned. Some more fat it them now though.

Manufacturing has high fixed rate costs, but these days efficiencies through processes, sustainable initiatives and many other factors can see these fixed costs reduced significantly.

but to cut a long story short, and to support jpd80, yes the build cost between Falcon and Territory is essentially the same!

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by JPFS1

cost to build...?

90% of the of the manufacture process is the same between small and large car.

70% of the cost is the same between small to large car. The main difference is B.O.M costs. Very slim margin in small car production, the reason why Focus was canned. Some more fat it them now though.

Manufacturing has high fixed rate costs, but these days efficiencies through processes, sustainable initiatives and many other factors can see these fixed costs reduced significantly.

but to cut a long story short, and to support jpd80, yes the build cost between Falcon and Territory is essentially the same!

GOLD!!

Thank you JPFS1.
I'm learning to not put statements out there and just expect people to accept them.

70% of the cost is the same between small to large car. The main difference is B.O.M costs. Very slim margin in small car production, the reason why Focus was canned. Some more fat it them now though.

Thoughts on Mondeo (versus Focus) manufacturing - a possibility for Australia or still not worth it?

By the way, I'm seeing how Holden achieves scales of economy with Cruze for Australia,
from talking to dealers, buyers want optioned up- mid -high series models, more so than
when Focus was first contemplated for Australia and offering desirable models is the key..

[neptune blue]

......

[RspecAU]

Originally Posted by Elks

I have a work supplied VE CaliasV 6.0 that ran out of brake on 3 seperate occasions and was told by Holden that there was nothing wrong with it. After I crashed it (minor fender bender only) they put a new master cylender in it.

Drama's with 6 speed auto's, flickeing gauges. Dont believe the grass is greener.

I wasn't saying the grass is greener but if you know there is a problem with the BA you would think it would be fixed or improved for the BF.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

More down days in July including another down week, not good but at least
it looks like Ford is resisting a down balance of production line speed and employees.


I wonder if another increase in Territory production would allow Ford to swap those discounted Falcon sedans
for discounted TX RWD Territory, offering the I-6 RWD for $34,990 drive away might get the markets blood going
where it's been indifferent to the large sedan...the market seems hungry for SUVs so why not try a different tack.

The down balance is basically being discussed now, so its about a month or 2 away. Its inevitable, they can't avoid it. I've heard September.

I think they will just cut Falcon production down and leave Territory where it is.

[FGX-351]

Originally Posted by stevz

So in other words you're that gullible that you blindly believe every word he says?

To the contrary, I believe in the old adage " dont bite the hand that feeds you"
I can take from it or question myself without the need to publicly label someone a liar because to quote you " I think they're wrong"

Cheer up Happy!

[jpd80]

It's pretty easy to work out what the bare minimum price on a Falcon or Commodore is.
Without getting into complex facts and figures:
Anyone who goes to government auctions will soon pick up a good feel of reserve prices on two year old vehicles
and what the car owes the government..
see,, we're not actually dumb bunnies who know nothing about motor companies..the info is there if you want to dig.


Also,
Notice how Holden and Ford have managed to continue offering a generic "$36,990" specials for the past 15 years or so?
A lot of the improvements in equipment levels and static price have come from improving internal costs and efficiencies.
And it's not just Ford and Holden, almost every other volume car maker has done that too..

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The down balance is basically being discussed now, so its about a month or 2 away. Its inevitable, they can't avoid it. I've heard September.

I think they will just cut Falcon production down and leave Territory where it is.

I think a down balance is best for all.. Get employees back to working full 5 days a week month in month out. Unfortunately some will need to go, but hopefully they find something bigger & better.

[robbo/region15]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I think a down balance is best for all.. Get employees back to working full 5 days a week month in month out. Unfortunately some will need to go, but hopefully they find something bigger & better.

If FOA cut numbers,Tier suppliers will follow suit,no win for anyone.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by robbo/region15

If FOA cut numbers,Tier suppliers will follow suit,no win for anyone.

They wont be cutting production in terms of numbers out the door each month as they have been doing this already with down days, so I dont understand the comment.. It is about getting workers to work full 5 days per week & not this 3-4 days per week they have been on for over 18 months!!


At the same time, they might actually be able to add a few more territory's (Over & above what they do now with all the down days) & we might actually get more cars being built each month? Maybe? So a rebalance down & back to full 5 days, might actually result in better sales of local Fords & more OF THE RIGHT car being built? In theory anyway..

[Dr Smith]

Way off topic but I wonder how the Drive reporters feel now that their own employer is cutting 1900 jobs over 3 years and going to paid e-paper offer and tabloid paper format....and I take no pleasure in that either.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Way off topic but I wonder how the Drive reporters feel now that their own employer is cutting 1900 jobs over 3 years and going to paid e-paper offer and tabloid paper format....and I take no pleasure in that either.

Kinda like creating the very news you're reporting...."See, I told ya so..."

And they're still trying to illicit a response from Ford for their post 2016 plans..

[jpd80]

How's this for Product mix, 3x Territory to 2 x Falcon to 1 x Ute.
Perhaps something like that would reflect current buying patterns..

.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

How's this for Product mix, 3x Territory to 2 x Falcon to 1 x Ute.
Perhaps something like that would reflect current buying patterns...

Maybe you should single handedly take over the running of Ford Australia, you seem to think you know the place better than Bob Graziano.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by stevz

Maybe you should single handedly take over the running of Ford Australia, you seem to think you know the place better than Bob Graziano.

I urge you to do some simple research before forming an opinion either way......

That product ratio is merely an interpretation of data in the market in terms of buying patterns
and is supported by public acknowledgement by Sinead Phipps (Ford) that it is considering
an increase in Territory production ahead of Falcon sedan. Nothing earth shattering there
and really,
anyone looking at recent buying patterns could come to the same conclusions, it's not hard....

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

They wont be cutting production in terms of numbers out the door each month as they have been doing this already with down days, so I dont understand the comment.. It is about getting workers to work full 5 days per week & not this 3-4 days per week they have been on for over 18 months!!


At the same time, they might actually be able to add a few more territory's (Over & above what they do now with all the down days) & we might actually get more cars being built each month? Maybe? So a rebalance down & back to full 5 days, might actually result in better sales of local Fords & more OF THE RIGHT car being built? In theory anyway..

A rebalance allows Ford to set production volumes closer to selling rates, trim staff levels and also adjust the product mix to give dealer supplies in the right quantities.

With the excessive numbers of down days and now down weeks, it should be clear to most people that
current line speed (total product volume) is too much compared to existing sales levels.

The tricky part is getting production to match what sales will be in the near future,
if there's a chance that sales might improve, companies like Ford will usually hang
on with down days and hopefully get through but if the market stays down,
a downbalance is a certainty....

180/day?, 160/day?...who knows.......

[RASER]

Originally Posted by 54Ghia

Is that when the Gov bail out ends?

LOL

How sad, not even a Australian owned company in any case.

They should pull the pin NOW, why keep trying to drag it on and on with less and less sales, they know it will NEVER recover to anything like the sales during the glory days, customers are buying other vehicle types now.

Sell off the 100's of acres [Broady/Geelong] for housing [maybe pay back the GovCo...hahahaha] payout all the manufacture staff, and keep the engineering and HQ for 100% a imported range, and engineers can do projects for the subcontinent etc

Bring on the F150's and Mustangs~~!!

Its going to happen anyway, 2016?

[RASER]

Originally Posted by jpd80

A rebalance allows Ford to set production volumes closer to selling rates, trim staff levels and also adjust the product mix to give dealer supplies in the right quantities.

With the excessive numbers of down days and now down weeks, it should be clear to most people that
current line speed (total product volume) is too much compared to existing sales levels.

The tricky part is getting production to match what sales will be in the near future,
if there's a chance that sales might improve, companies like Ford will usually hang
on with down days and hopefully get through but if the market stays down,
a downbalance is a certainty....

180/day?, 160/day?...who knows.......

Maybe they can run the factory flat stick, 24x7 for 1 week every 3 months, that should cover all the orders

Employ just casuals no more full time employees

Or subcontract assymble to Holden/Toyota

Or move the plant to China/India

[flappist]

This is getting argumentative with a fair bit of baiting and trolling going on.

It will stop now or it will be stopped with the appropriate concequences.

Dong ma?

[just_pazz]

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/06/19/h...f-ford-falcon/

Not sure if this appropriate to post in this thread, but that is some gloating from the HSV guys. Like way to kick the boot in while a man is down.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by just_pazz

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/06/19/h...f-ford-falcon/

Not sure if this appropriate to post in this thread, but that is some gloating from the HSV guys. Like way to kick the boot in while a man is down.

It's a nice way to spin a story at the expense of Ford.
What people are focusing on is low Falcon sales, not the combination of Falcon + Territory + Ute.
Similarly Holden people will also quote Commodore + Ute + Caprice + ME Export + Caprice PPV + Cruze

While there are different vehicle and staff quantities to contemplate, the basic plans are the same,
maximising prices of lower production runs now that fleet sales are hard to come by and clearly,
Ford is disappointed with the result - Lots of reasons for this already discussed to death......

What gets interesting is what Ford do from here, just let falcon sales go lower or push back with territory.

[Pandemic]

Question, if the Ford factories in Australia were to close, would the government then import Ford-made cars from the US?

[Elks]

Originally Posted by jpd80

It's a nice way to spin a story at the expense of Ford.
.

All the way down to HSV comparing themselve to AMG rather than FPV. Super sublte but effectivce.

An R8 does not deserve to be in the same car park as a C63 let alone actually compared to it genuine rival.

[Elks]

Originally Posted by Pandemic

Question, if the Ford factories in Australia were to close, ?

What would the government lose in terms of tax revenue.

Federal Government x number of employees mulitplied by y income tax multiplied by how many years??

State government, x number of employees multiplied by 6% (i think) payroll tax multiplied by how many years....

The money they tip in is effectively a discount on the revenues they would receive and continue to receive becuase the plant is still operating.

JPD80, have a a good handle on the numbers, can you multiply this out unitl 2016.?

[Elks]

Lastly point (for now)


If the dollar drops back to its so called "natural" 85c range. Local manufacturers have an advantage. Ford cannot participate in that if the plant is shut.

If the Broadmeadows and/or the Geelong plant. Thats it, they wont be re-opened. This make the support in the short term even mnore critical.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Elks

What would the government lose in terms of tax revenue.

Federal Government x number of employees mulitplied by y income tax multiplied by how many years??

State government, x number of employees multiplied by 6% (i think) payroll tax multiplied by how many years....

The money they tip in is effectively a discount on the revenues they would receive and continue to receive becuase the plant is still operating.

JPD80, have a a good handle on the numbers, can you multiply this out unitl 2016.?

Add to that there's no guarantee that imported products replacing Falcon and Territory would do any better increasing sales
so then, you have a situation where FoA gives up locally generated revenue and buys in from Europe or USA..

And as stated above, what happens if our dollar drops back to 80-85 cents or even lower?
Imports suddenly get a lot dearer...

[prydey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

What people are focusing on is low Falcon sales,

commodore sales, as a percentage, are falling just as quick as falcon. both down around 25% compared to last year. it is the segment that is falling, not the individual models.

the problem for falcon is, for the last 10-15 years it has consistently been around 1000-1500/month lower, so if the trend continues, its obvious falcon will hit the bottom earlier than commodore.

this has been discussed many times before but generally the belief is often that it is fords fault, and not the fact that the public is staying away from large cars. ford need to change the build rate to favour the territory. local manufacturing won't centre around a large sedan in the future i'm tipping, but i fully believe local manufacturing will be here for a while longer.

things often go in cycles and all it will take is a rise in air fares and there'll be a few who realise their little city car doesn't manage too well when loaded up for a family holiday.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by prydey

commodore sales, as a percentage, are falling just as quick as falcon. both down around 25% compared to last year. it is the segment that is falling, not the individual models.

the problem for falcon is, for the last 10-15 years it has consistently been around 1000-1500/month lower, so if the trend continues, its obvious falcon will hit the bottom earlier than commodore.
.

Simpler than that,
Sportwagon sales are added to Commodore sedan numbers unlike Falcon sedan which stands alone from Territory sibling.
Not meaning to sound anti-Holden but Sedan versus sedan, Holden sales have dropped almost as much as Falcon..
and now VF is looking like a very brave move on their part...hope the market comes good for Ford and Holden...

[prydey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Simpler than that,
Sportwagon sales are added to Commodore sedan numbers unlike Falcon sedan which stands alone from Territory sibling.
Not meaning to sound anti-Holden but Sedan versus sedan, Holden sales have dropped almost as much as Falcon..
and now VF is looking like a very brave move on their part...hope the market comes good for Ford and Holden...

actually the 6cyl sedan comparison would be interesting. holden are lucky they have v8's and wagons that are keeping their sales numbers inflated a bit more.

the thing is, for anyone looking to buy a new car now, what would draw them to a large sedan over one of the many other offerings out there, which often sell for up to $10k less. the size of the pie is the same in australia, possibly even smaller with new car sales not reaching the million anymore, and yet it is cut into many many more slices. unless you actually want a large sedan, nearly every other car on the market will do as good a job for less coin. with the financial strain on families/individuals stronger than ever before, all 3 aussie manufacturers are finding that what was their bread and butter for so many years is now a 'bit part' player.

ford need to find a way to be viable at numbers close to where they currently are, with the territory being the main player. i believe with 'one ford' it is possible if they share tech and componentry etc and possibly even body panels. toyota sell less aurions than falcons. as mentioned in other places, ford also get money for their development work so its not 100% about car sales, although this would be the larger % i'm guessing.

[FPV GTHO]

Originally Posted by Pandemic

Question, if the Ford factories in Australia were to close, would the government then import Ford-made cars from the US?

The government wouldnt have anything to do with it, Ford Australia goes beyond local manufacturing and engine assembly.

Ford don't import anything from America at the moment anyway. Theres only 3 unique US made models right now - Taurus, Mustang and F Series. Only the latter 2 would likely sell enough to justify the effort. Even though of those 3 the Taurus would closest match Falcons customer base, it would be better to replace Falcon performance models with Mustang and push Falcon fleet/family sales onto Mondeo and also provide the more powerful Ecoboost option from Europe that we don't get.