Ford committed to factory closures: Graziano

[bigwil]

Many years ago I had a base model EF Falcon V8, one of only 80 in Victoria so I was told, that car even though it was a base model brought a smile to my face each and every time I got behind the wheel, base model falcons can be exciting too.

[KAM120]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Does a Family car need to be exciting?

No, but some of us nutters here like them to be. Why else would we have XR6T's for?

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by bigwil

Many years ago I had a base model EF Falcon V8, one of only 80 in Victoria so I was told, that car even though it was a base model brought a smile to my face each and every time I got behind the wheel, base model falcons can be exciting too.

I believe its what you make of it...


My ED Gli got exciting with a LSD lol

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by bigwil

Many years ago I had a base model EF Falcon V8, one of only 80 in Victoria so I was told, that car even though it was a base model brought a smile to my face each and every time I got behind the wheel, base model falcons can be exciting too.

I actually preferred it when Ford offered base model V8's, that way I could really go to town on it mods wise without the purists getting there knickers in a knot......

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Brazen

All else being equal, if you could choose that the Focus ST could be RWD or FWD which one would you pick?

Id probably still take FWD.
Just because it is wrong way drive means nothing to me. Yeah my ST is no power house but a high powered FWD car can be fun.
My old XR5 that was fairly modded was great fun. 2nd, 3rd, 4th gear full boost sit back and hold on.

Ill get my ST to that stage of mods one day, although it will take a little longer to get there.

I have driven a near on 400hp Focus RS and that is the next stage of insanity, i know i keep referring to it but in my eyes it is the pinnacle of wrong way drive.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Just because a car is RWD doesn't automatically make it "so much fun" to drive, lol.

My EL Falcon is RWD and it handles like the Costa Concordia, but a nice comfortable boat with awesome A/C.

FWD is just more efficient, smaller package and handles better in crap conditions, done a lot of dirt road driving in my EL and it doesn't take much to catch you out, especially on off camber corners.

Granted the EL is old but it is RWD.

Apples and Oranges old son. Put them in the same weight category and sports tuning and RWD leapfrogs again. Mazda MX-5 is a great example, or the GT86. Alfa Romeo is supposedly moving it's lineup to RWD chassis' to share with Dodge... so once again there will be a company offering small nimble RWD cars. Yum.

Base model Falcon's do have body roll, nothing firming up the suspension wouldn't cure. Dad has a 93 Fairmont Wagon, and it corners like an HMAS. In fact I call it the HMAS Fairmont. But I have more fun driving that car then I do my own, even though mine is superior in every way, I can't help but smile whipping that box spring mattress suspended old boat about.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Just because a car is RWD doesn't automatically make it "so much fun" to drive, lol.

My EL Falcon is RWD and it handles like the Costa Concordia, but a nice comfortable boat with awesome A/C.

FWD is just more efficient, smaller package and handles better in crap conditions, done a lot of dirt road driving in my EL and it doesn't take much to catch you out, especially on off camber corners.

Granted the EL is old but it is RWD.

It also has a live axle and Fairmont-spec luxo suspension under it's 18 year old body so I'm not surprised it handles like the crippled cruise liner.

Most modern FWD cars have independent suspension on all corners and far better rubber, struts/shocks and swaybars than most cars that are a generation old so I'm not sure how it is even a valid comparison?

Incidentally Mazda and Toyota still feel the need for RWD platforms to make for quote "...fun to drive cars..." unquote. And this is from the kings of FWD so are they wrong?

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Difference is the suspension in Falcons are designed for all of Australia's road conditions., and have always been more on the comfort side of things.

A Focus ST would probably beat just about every Falcon around a track, but a Falcon would be more comfortable on an extended trip on country roads. What do most Falcon owners do?

They drive around suburbia on generally decent condition roads, just like Focus owners?

In isolation, the Falcon would be the better long distance choice though.

[DJM83]

Just because they make quote "fun to drive" RWD cars doesnt mean FWD cars cannot be fun.

Re Damos Fairmont, a new XR6 wouldnt be too flash in the bends either, be better than an old Fairmont though.

This is an argument that will never be resolved, it comes around time and time again.

Originally Posted by Kieron

In isolation, the Falcon would be the better long distance choice though.

Thats negligible, i did a couple of 3500km trips in my old AU TE50 then the same in my old XR5 and last week in my ST and felt no different getting out only a sore back but that happened in every trip.

[jpd80]

Thing was that if you wanted a V8 XT in BA, Ford would sink the teeth in and ask $8,000 for the pleasure.
Oh god, no wonder only a few people stumped up the cash and bought what they wanted.

And people wondered why most just went and bought XR6T or XR8, better bang for the bucks.

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by DJM83

J
Thats negligible, i did a couple of 3500km trips in my old AU TE50 then the same in my old XR5 and last week in my ST and felt no different getting out only a sore back but that happened in every trip.

I tend to agree with you mate. I've only sat in the latest Focus ST so can't give a true appraisal but I did find the seats pretty darn body hugging which I felt would be too much for me over long periods but I'm a bit claustrophobic and felt my FG XR8 would be more suitable.

Would certainly like to have a blast in one, I reckon they would be fantastic all round sports sedan drive!

[Nikked]

The Euro fords sports seats are always very nice, I guess Australian seats are made for bigger blokes?


Luckily for us, the Mustang will give us a good RWD car for exciting driving.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

It also has a live axle and Fairmont-spec luxo suspension under it's 18 year old body so I'm not surprised it handles like the crippled cruise liner.

Most modern FWD cars have independent suspension on all corners and far better rubber, struts/shocks and swaybars than most cars that are a generation old so I'm not sure how it is even a valid comparison?

Incidentally Mazda and Toyota still feel the need for RWD platforms to make for quote "...fun to drive cars..." unquote. And this is from the kings of FWD so are they wrong?

Well I guess my Focus with its IRS, Bilstein B8 shortened shocks matched to Eibach 30mm lowered progressive springs with a 22mm whiteline rear swaybar wou
Ld be pretty hard to better in the corners ;)

20 year old Falcon isn't the right comparison but its that or a 2001 GMC Sierra that feels like its going to tip on a right corner at 10km/h.

Didn't the new Fiesta ST feed it to the 86 in some test recently?

[XR Martin]

That reminds me of when I was driving a new Mini Cooper S around for a little while, gave it back then had to use my EL again.
Anyway after a couple of mins of being back in the Falcon I pulled it over and walked around it as I thought it had a flat tyre :

[westy73]

Originally Posted by blk6t

Just in continuation of the discussion, I don't think it's all about the "Falcon", it's about Ford and manufacturing a product in Australia, whether it be a Falcon or another product. The Falcon is a product that the majority of Australian's are no longer interested in, because there is such a large selection of vehicles out there to choose from that tick more consumer boxes.

I think if Ford had dropped the Falcon years ago and commenced building a small or medium car in Australia, it's very possible you would still find it would be expensive to build and the budget may have hindered the vehicle to be competitive in that segment with tech/gadgets etc. Whether this would have kept manufacturing Fords in Australia an option, I think depends on whether it was exported in large numbers, or really at the end of the day it's very hard to answer.

Yeh but I reckon you could get more people interested if you marketed the product successfully. Plus if they were allowed to export both Falcon and Territory it would have been a game changer. IMO. But alas neither happened and it's been allowed to die a death. No one in the ranks to stand up and shout all the plusses that come with a Falcon. Sigh.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Just because they make quote "fun to drive" RWD cars doesnt mean FWD cars cannot be fun.

Re Damos Fairmont, a new XR6 wouldnt be too flash in the bends either, be better than an old Fairmont though.

This is an argument that will never be resolved, it comes around time and time again.



Thats negligible, i did a couple of 3500km trips in my old AU TE50 then the same in my old XR5 and last week in my ST and felt no different getting out only a sore back but that happened in every trip.

That was me. But you haven't experienced the fun of needing a seat belt stopping you from flying about like a free-falling plane.

You don't turn left and right so much as you turn port and starboard. It's great fun.

[KAM120]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Didn't the new Fiesta ST feed it to the 86 in some test recently?

I wouldn't be suprised, the 86 in standard form isn't all it could be and it wasn't supposed to be, it was partly designed to be a 'tuners car'.