Australia,s Rarest muscle cars

[Bossxr8]

Heavy duty axle would be 4 pinion centre, as factory fitted to the V8's? At least the heavy duty diff was basically the V8 diff.

No XD ever came from the factory with a 9 inch. It's a myth that has been spoken of forever but it's been proven wrong a million times.

[HO 3]

Originally Posted by XBROO

Interesting never knew that's why they called them pony cars, I just thought because a mustangs a horse.

Love Landaus but I wouldn't call them a muscle car, just the same as I wouldn't call any automatic car one. To me a muscle car has to be a manual and at least have some sort of racing history. And yes I do agree with an earlier post about the term muscle being American, but I think our Aussie cars deserve the title too. Mine's a Mcleod horn car, if I cracked a horn that's a muscle isn't it?

Interesting you are not familiar with the term 'pony car' used to describe compact performance cars from all US manufacturers during the 60s to early 70s........this term would have its origins with the introduction of the mustang in 1964 as you say though. Our XAs on would be the equivalent of what the yanks call 'intermediates'.......US Fords equivalent would be the larger 71 mustang, torino etc.

Cheers Mick

[ozpacman]

I recall when the XD's came out and all us young turks at the dealership were mourning the passing of the 9 inch. We all reckoned that the 5.8 manual XD's were going to blow these little standard diff centres to smithereens.

They didn't.

Maybe the engineers at Ford knew just a tad more about power trains than our rag-tag bunch of apprentices and newly qualified tradesmen!

Russ

[Elks]

Originally Posted by Nikked

T3 TL50...

Only 3 made...

T3 TL50. Only one made. The other two were series 2 cars converted the series 3 spec by Tickford for brochures etc. So there is only one car, one of the Black ones, with the correct series 3 model code on its ID plates.

I'm not sure if a TL is a muscle car, but neither is a Landau. They are both cool though.

PS. They are only 14 series 2 TL's, so the're not plentiful either.

[FTe342]

Originally Posted by bullfrog

I don't understand what your trying to say.
Option 54 (ESP) was only available on the XE Fairmont Ghia, not on anything else.




Radius rods (2) were standard on all XD ESP's. XD V8's often had 1 (LH Side) or 2 radius rods.
XD's did not come with 9" diffs.

XD police interceptors also came with 2 radius rods. I had a XD 351 GL ex cop car and it had the 2 rods including the factory mounting points on the chassis both sides, same as my XD 351 Fairmont Ghia ESP

[FTe342]

Of course the T3 TL50 is a Muscle Car.

Limited build number, badged and numbered by Fords then performance arm - Tickford.

It carries a factory stroker version of the 5.0 litre Windsor loaded with all Aussie performance parts including the specially Tickford designed 8 trumpet inlet manifold, 82mm progressive throttle body and was the first Aussie Ford with a cone style air filter.

Backed by a strengthened driveline to handle the 5.6L engines 250kw/500nm the 4 speed ESS auto coupled with the purpose built LSD differential resulted in a WSID qtr mile time slip of 14.2 secs in factory standard form including tyres.

If that is not deserving of a Muscle Car tag I don't know what is.

But of course my opinion may be a little bit biased

[sbutler]

Fully agree!

[Nikked]

Wouldn't a landau be what the Cougar is to the mustang in a way?

[Elks]

Originally Posted by FTe342

Of course the T3 TL50 is a Muscle Car............

But of course my opinion may be a little bit biased

As is mine. I'm a huge fan of the muscle barge.

[Paull]

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

That may be the case.
I know what I had and it was factory fitted 9 inch with tow bar etc etc bilstien shocks, front and rear sway bars,. XD not XE.
This has been annoying me.
So upon further research I have discovered this where it clearly states ( section N )that there was a tow pack option with HEAVY DUTY REAR AXLE.
And that would be a 9 inch

Somewhat off topic, apologies.

Your XD may well have had the 9" fitted from the factory but I very much doubt it. The 9" was dis-continued for the XC as of November 1978 and for the ZH/P6, January 1979, see below





From the introduction of the XD, all vehicles were supplied with the Borg Warner differentials. Note H/D notation on some of the axle types



Back in the '70's pretty much any thing went. In that, nobody can guarantee that your car was or was not fitted with the 9" diff. However, the factory fit was BW for all XD's.

What you need to bear in mind are a few facts.

First up, Ford had a review of internal manufacturing costs circa 1975/76, I have the report, just can't find it now. Within the report it showed that the costs of making the 9" diffs were much more expensive than the externally supplied BW diffs.

Following on from that, the 9" was well overrated for the XC 351 and very much so for the XD 351 so why would they discontinue the 9" in the XC range and then bring it back again?

What also has to be taken into account is a number of inherent design faults for the late XB and all XC 9" diffs, all of which were resolved with the BW design. These faults were as follows;
1) The axle bearings upon failure, required for the whole shaft to be replaced, not an ideal situation.
2) The hemisphere given shock loading was also subject to failure, namely cracking around the bolt PCD
3) No oil drain hole, who would have thought????
4) The clutch packs, given some proper loading and even after time, wore out. In that, the LSD now became a single spinner.

Regarding the BW 4 pinion LSD, these had the cone type clutch and the limited slip function, lasted a lot longer than the 9"s did.

So you have to ask yourself why would Ford continue with an out-dated, over-rated, more expensive and heavier differential than that of the BW?????

Lastly, the 9" was still in production during the XD era and well into the '80's. Thing is, all of these 9" diffs were for the F series trucks. As you would be aware, the housing was much wider than the sedan one. Perhaps there may have been spares available of the passenger 9" housing the early '80's, who knows but to me it is very clear, the XD series never had the 9" as standard fit.

[OzJavelin]

If we are going to continue slightly off topic .. Build numbers for Right-hand-drive, AMI-assembled Javelins/AMXs (pony cars not really musclecars) in Port Melbourne (what is now part of Toyota):
1968 90 javelins
1969 50 javelins / 24 AMXs
1970 70 javelins
1972 48 javelins

[superyob]

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

If we are going to continue slightly off topic .. Build numbers for Right-hand-drive, AMI-assembled Javelins/AMXs (pony cars not really musclecars) in Port Melbourne (what is now part of Toyota):
1968 90 javelins
1969 50 javelins / 24 AMXs
1970 70 javelins
1972 48 javelins

Not muscle cars? Did these not have a 390 ci V8?

[HULK_I6T]

What annoys me is the lack of appreciation of future rare muscle cars by some .

i saw a middle aged woman drive into the bunnings carpark a hsv coupe4. (Awd hsv gto monaro).

Front and rear bars both torn up, car all marked up and paint damaged. How can she treat such a car so poorly?

This is a classic example of someone who needs an old pulsar as a daily drive if they are gonna treat them like dodgem cars.

a hsv coupe4 is a certain future classic

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by f6_benito

What annoys me is the lack of appreciation of future rare muscle cars by some .

i saw a middle aged woman drive into the bunnings carpark a hsv coupe4. (Awd hsv gto monaro).

Front and rear bars both torn up, car all marked up and paint damaged. How can she treat such a car so poorly?

This is a classic example of someone who needs an old pulsar as a daily drive if they are gonna treat them like dodgem cars.

a hsv coupe4 is a certain future classic

People can do what they like with their own cars, it's no one’s business but there's, in fact most of my old GT's got there asss flogged going from SW WA up to the Pilbara and back, the undersides resembled the surface of the moon after tackling the gravel roads up there.....

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by PlukaDuck

Mine had a factory 9 inch... figure that out. Have seen other xd also with factory 9 inch.Here is one on gumtree
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/dalla...-v8/1031032588

Those aren't factory mudflaps either
just because people state factory in an ad doesn't mean it's true

[HO 3]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Wouldn't a landau be what the Cougar is to the mustang in a way?

Yep hit the nail on the head.......1971 cougar to be specifc which by then had grown into a larger, softer and more comfort orientated 'Intermediate' car.

Cheers Mick

[Gothefalcon]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

There's a lot of stories about how many P76 variants survived...everything from "heaps" to "none". We were always told that no Force 7 variants survived, but then it turned out there were in fact quite a few around, saved by various people, even some that ended up in England. And as for wagons, a simple image search shows a few around the place.
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=p...w=1366&bih=643

I went to the "40th Anniversary of the P76" meet, in Canberra this year.... There were plenty of well preserved survivors there !
Whilst talking to these enthusiasts... I was told there were Seven Force 7V's which survived the crusher. All of them were pre-production models and were never intended for sale to the public (meaning they hadn't yet moved to the full-production stage, which then would have been sold to the public)
I seem to remember a Wheels or MM magazine article (way back when) on one that had been shipped to England by a keen collector !??

Amongst all the other P76's there, was one Wagon. According to these Guys.. The Wagon body style had been cleared for production... and this one is the 1st full-production Wagon.. and the only one to make it down the line. Well.. almost ! I was told that the day Leyland ceased production in Oz... this Wagon hadn't quite made it to the end of the line... This one looked to be only 99.5% finished.. with the tailgate window seal missing (& perhaps a few other things as well).... and the chrome trim around the Wagon side widows looking a bit "hand made" !?? All other Wagon bodies were crushed.

This Wagon is however, a Factory V8 4spd manual... which I thought was a pretty cool combination to have.. especially if it was the only one to have survived ! (It's the cream one in the pics on that link... & has been kept in great original condition too !!)

These guys did acknowledge that there are other P76 Wagons around... but were aware of the actual Dude's that made them by converting Sedans into Wagons.. and were also fairly sure where they all are now.

It was great to see so many of these uniquely Australian cars gathered in one place... 6's & 8's... coupes, Sedans & Wagon (& a home made V8 Ute too!)... Autos & Manuals... base models through to Targa Florios (Blue & Green) Clunkers, well kept originals & fully restored... and all the colours of the rainbow (and, of course... Brown )

Did the P76 rate as Muscle Cars ??? Hmmm.. Legend has it, Leyland had intended to take on the "Big 3" at Bathurst with the Force 7V ... but closed it's doors before that ever happened. It was "only" a 4.4Ltr V8..but the cars only weighed in at 1200 odd kilos.... so who knows !?? the Rover 3.5Ltr V8's didn't do too badly on the Mount (in latter years).. so perhaps it would have gone OK !?? Sadly... we will never know.

I personally believe that what has helped to create what we now more widely term as "muscle cars".. was the on track performances of these cars... and especially at Bathurst. Though not all of the later production car versions did actually race around "The Mount"... if their spiritual ancestry can be traced back to these fore-runers that did... then it only adds to their credence (in some way).
On the flip side.... if you have ever recently had the chance to jump back into an old 60-70's car for a drive... You probably realise fairly quickly, that it doesn't require much "muscle" anymore, to drive your modern day car... and wondered "how the hell did we put up with driving something that requires so much effort.. everyday !?" Perhaps this is the one thing that's more true to the core of what defines a "Muscle car" !?? Not so much, how much muscle it has.... but how much muscle you needed to drive it hard and keep it under control !?? (or maybe the two combined !??)

Anyways.. just food for thought....

Dhru

[Gothefalcon]

For those interested... here's a few pics of the various P76's (All factory V8s)

The only Wagon...



and a Force 7V Coupe (more a hatch back)...



and the (home made) Ute...



and the Targa Florio...

Blue...


and green (2nd car from front)..

[2011G6E]

Awesome photos of the P76...a car that deserved a far better fate than it ended up with. Shame Leyland went down the tubes and seemed to have the same "workmanship" problems that the parent company in England underwent.

Family friends of ours had a yellow one exactly like the one in the right side of the bottom picture, except it had the steel wheels and hubcaps. It was a V8 manual, and was an amazing car to drive. Unfortunately it got written off in a crash.

[keeper345]

Great pictures of the Leyland P76. Thank you for putting a smile on my face. Many memories.

[CyberWasp]

The body style actually suits the ute well.

[Stefan]

EBs and BFs etc being described as Musclescars.....

FKNLOL

Musclecars are 60s and 70's built fullstop. and its not just any old car with a V8.

List is simple

GTs GTRs, Chev powered Monaros, R/Ts, SL/Rs.

[FTe342]

Originally Posted by Stefan

EBs and BFs etc being described as Musclescars.....

FKNLOL

Musclecars are 60s and 70's built fullstop. and its not just any old car with a V8.

List is simple

GTs GTRs, Chev powered Monaros, R/Ts, SL/Rs.

In your opinion BUT not according to the people at Australian Muscle Car magazine. Maybe you should get a job there and straighten them out

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by Stefan

EBs and BFs etc being described as Musclescars.....

FKNLOL

Musclecars are 60s and 70's built fullstop. and its not just any old car with a V8.

List is simple

GTs GTRs, Chev powered Monaros, R/Ts, SL/Rs.

are you trolling man

go, stop, turn, heater and aircon that works

new muscle is cool muscle

now go sail your boat off the edge of the world

[5.8]

Originally Posted by Stefan

EBs and BFs etc being described as Musclescars.....

FKNLOL

Musclecars are 60s and 70's built fullstop. and its not just any old car with a V8.

List is simple

GTs GTRs, Chev powered Monaros, R/Ts, SL/Rs.

And the XW, XY die hards probably thought high back bucket seats, ignition locks, lift up door handles, rectangle shaped exhaust tips etc weren't the makings of a muscle car when the XA was released!!
How people's minds change as cars age just as it probably will with the modern muscle cars.

[HO 3]

I personally dont want to get bogged down debating if we can call the more modern iron muscle cars or not........however i do think the Bathurst homologation specials from all 3 Au manufacturers made during the Series Production era of the 60s and 70s are deserving of being called 'Super Cars' instead of 'Muscle Cars'

Cheers Mick

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

are you trolling man

go, stop, turn, heater and aircon that works

new muscle is cool muscle

now go sail your boat off the edge of the world

THAT is EXACTLY why they are not muscle cars, they go, stop, turn and have heater and aircon that works.

A poof's car...

[Stefan]

Originally Posted by FTe342

In your opinion BUT not according to the people at Australian Muscle Car magazine. Maybe you should get a job there and straighten them out

Oh of course they are the ultimate authority.....they lost all credibility when they had the ultimate all time musclecar the HZ Kingswood Wagon on the cover of the mag.

Even the fact they the coined the Landau as the rarest Aust muscle car underpins the fact they have no idea.

[Nikked]

So muscle cars dont stop and turn? Looks like the phase 3 aint no muscle car...

[Pedro]

Originally Posted by fte50

Holden EH S4,

Back on track .... HD X2