QLD To Consider Mandating Ethanol in all Petrol Bowsers

[turboclown]

Originally Posted by DAVO_XR

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=is+ethanol+more...ve+than+petrol

Most of those links say at10% the corrosive difference between petrol and blended fuel are negligible

[wookie836]

Originally Posted by burnz

well keep burning petrol and have sulphuric acid in your combustion chamber.

australia has pretty high standards for reducing sulphur in unleaded petrol these days, 150ppm. BPs ultimate has 50ppm. so there would be sfa sulphuric acid in your combustion chambers.

you cant really get more sulphur in unleaded to promote sulphuric acid but you certainly can get water in ethanol to promote formic acid.

10% ethanol can take up to 50% more water than unleaded [worse in cold and humid environments], phase separation occurs with 5% water content in e10 in a litre of fuel, roughtly 3 tablespoons.

that being said the ethanol and water mixture becomes heavier than fuel is dragged to the bottom of your tank. burning this crappy water riddled ethanol in your combustion chamber will cause worse efficiency and youll be sucking unburnt hydrocarbons out of your exhaust. so servos and car manufacturers are doing everything they can to keep water out the fuel and decrease your mileage, reducing your fuel consumption?

[wookie836]

i think most peoples gripe with blended fuel is that the cost isnt justified, you possibly could have up to 10% higher consumption [from any real road test figures i can find, mind you that was drive.com.au so i wouldnt really take it as gospel] with the blended fuel and the cost at my local servo is <3% cheaper than premium 95, 7% is the metro average. people are sick of having to pay more for less these days and blended fuel might be a choice now but it wont stay that way for long.

sure its less emissions but we used a billion litres less petrol last year compared to a decade ago and diesel is the big winner here with 15% more sales than petrol. hope all of it is bio diesel.

[dragons90]

You couldn't have 10% higher consumption with only 10% ethanol.

[GASWAGON]

This fuel has taken years to become popular......In VIC the servo's actually removed Ethanol pumps because it just was'nt selling.

I can understand the benefits of this fuel but at what cost to the consumer driving pre 2005 vehicles???

[noflac52]

I run my xm 1964 falcon on it with no problems at all. The old engine actually runs on after I turn it off if I use unleaded but not with e10. So that is a benefit for old engines. Just thought I'd throw that in with so many carrying on about the negatives.

[Revolver]

To all those who bag out ethanol fuels, I challenge you to find a better solution. And Hurry TFU about it.

Or keep refusing to use ethanol, pump that ULP/PULP into your car and leave the problem to your kids and their kids to deal with.

FYI, it's that attitude that has gotten us here in the first place......

But that's human nature isn't it??

So what is it people? You going to be part of the solution or part of the problem?

Another FYI. Continuing on in your little lives with your head in the sand or choosin to ignore it, is part of the problem!

[dragons90]

Originally Posted by wookie836

i think most peoples gripe with blended fuel is that the cost isnt justified, you possibly could have up to 10% higher consumption [from any real road test figures i can find, mind you that was drive.com.au so i wouldnt really take it as gospel] with the blended fuel and the cost at my local servo is <3% cheaper than premium 95, 7% is the metro average. people are sick of having to pay more for less these days and blended fuel might be a choice now but it wont stay that way for long.
.

You may want to reread that article.

E10 is currently about 3 cents a litre less than regular unleaded, while the gap to premium unleaded (the more affordable 95-octane stuff) is about 12 to 15 cents.
But the price difference between the two fuels at the bowser doesn't translate into hip pocket savings because ethanol has less energy per litre than petrol, meaning you need to use more of it to achieve the same outcome. The fuel companies say the difference in fuel economy can be as little as 1 per cent, but Drive's independent testing found that the difference between E10 and premium unleaded was as high as 8 per cent.

It compares E10 to 95, it uses up to 8% more and is 12-15c cheaper then 95 which works out to about 8% and match's my local servos.
No matter which fuel you use it cost you about the same, Fuel company's have it all worked out.

[wookie836]

yeah as stated it was a drive article, definitely not going to delve into that one much. its drive ffs.

theres obviosuly no financial benefit to using e10 in australia. as for environmental i spose that this will be a good interim weaning us off 100% oils. i wonder if well get rebates to convert to e10? id look at using it in my old cars but as i work away id have to make sure the tank is sealed and full every time i fly away, or completely drained.

[burnz]

hi I'm the CEO of sheltex refineries, E10 is bad.
why you might ask? well I loose 10% of my profits to some sugar hippy plus they want to sell that crap at my outlets, that cost me more dough.
the hide of them, how dare they.

and now they want me to sell E85 where I loose even more coin...
this is why its bad for your car, who like clean oil in the sump? not me.
have you seen the sump oil in an LPG powered car? bloody terrible, E85 will do the same thing..

a good oil looks like diesel oil, nice and chunky.
so don't buy sugar juice, buy the real stuff.

your truly sheltex CEO

[excopau]

The fuel companies in Brazil and other countries started buying ethanol refineries so they didnt loose out. lol

[Franco Cozzo]

We all use synthetic oils in our cars as they're the best thing since sliced bread, but someone talks about fuel other than what comes out of the ground and all hell breaks loose.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by turboclown

Most of those links say at10% the corrosive difference between petrol and blended fuel are negligible

Shouldn't effect anyway. as oil-based fuels already have corrosive chemicals in the blends a cleaners etc...stuff that would eat rubber anyway...


And that's why we don't have rubber hoses in fuel systems...

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Revolver

To all those who bag out ethanol fuels, I challenge you to find a better solution. And Hurry TFU about it.

Or keep refusing to use ethanol, pump that ULP/PULP into your car and leave the problem to your kids and their kids to deal with.

FYI, it's that attitude that has gotten us here in the first place......

But that's human nature isn't it??

So what is it people? You going to be part of the solution or part of the problem?

Another FYI. Continuing on in your little lives with your head in the sand or choosin to ignore it, is part of the problem!

Nope...not doing major and expensive modifications to my engine just to use the stuff, not stopping using or selling my old car so people can feel smug that it's mandated. Most of the cars I have seen people get excited about on this very forum would be off the road if it was mandated.

I refuse to have my right to drive whatever age car I want denied because the government decides we shouldn't be allowed to use the fuel they were designed for. And before you say "What about leaded", there have, from the beginning, been additives that fix that problem. There's no such additive to "fix" ethanol blend fuels for old cars.


Oh that evil big oil and gas industry using fossil fuels...
Interesting little list...
http://info.drillinginfo.com/75-ways...-gas-industry/


As for price...people have very short memories don't they? Remember that dirt cheap old fuel LP Gas? Change your car over, and the system could be paid off in a couple of years with fuel savings! Awesome! Then the government encouraged as many people as possible to convert through subsidised systems. Then, magically, the tax on LPG started to go up...and up...and up. Until now it's just not viable to use as a vehicle fuel because of price.
What do people think is going to happen to the subsidies keeping ethanol blends so cheap once it's mandated and people have no choice...?

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Oh that evil big oil and gas industry using fossil fuels...
Interesting little list...
http://info.drillinginfo.com/75-ways...-gas-industry/

Yep, even more reason to have ethanol blends, so there is more oil to go around...but of course, your "whatever" age car is the only worry, right?

Ifs funny how all the people against ethanol cannot provide a solution to the problem of declining oil reserves...

[noflac52]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Nope...not doing major and expensive modifications to my engine just to use the stuff, not stopping using or selling my old car so people can feel smug that it's mandated. Most of the cars I have seen people get excited about on this very forum would be off the road if it was mandated.

I refuse to have my right to drive whatever age car I want denied because the government decides we shouldn't be allowed to use the fuel they were designed for. And before you say "What about leaded", there have, from the beginning, been additives that fix that problem. There's no such additive to "fix" ethanol blend fuels for old cars.


Oh that evil big oil and gas industry using fossil fuels...
Interesting little list...
http://info.drillinginfo.com/75-ways...-gas-industry/


As for price...people have very short memories don't they? Remember that dirt cheap old fuel LP Gas? Change your car over, and the system could be paid off in a couple of years with fuel savings! Awesome! Then the government encouraged as many people as possible to convert through subsidised systems. Then, magically, the tax on LPG started to go up...and up...and up. Until now it's just not viable to use as a vehicle fuel because of price.
What do people think is going to happen to the subsidies keeping ethanol blends so cheap once it's mandated and people have no choice...?

See my post above about running a 1964 car on 10% ethanol. Its not off the road and it won't be for a long time yet.

Ethanol is mandated in NSW and it has made no difference to the choice of fuel everyone uses. I use it because I choose to not because it is mandated and if some rubber hose on my old car gets a bit soft I'll just replace it and keep on driving.

I don't know what modifications you need for your engine to run on 10% ethanol but mine didn't need any at all and it was built in the sixties.

[Jack91]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Shouldn't effect anyway. as oil-based fuels already have corrosive chemicals in the blends a cleaners etc...stuff that would eat rubber anyway...


And that's why we don't have rubber hoses in fuel systems...

Unbelievable.
You can buy rubber fuel hose anywhere.
Most people with odd carbys use it. A whole damn lot cheaper and easier than purpose made metal lines.
Every carb'd car I've owned has had rubber somewhere in the lines, factory or not, its still there.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by DAVO_XR

Unbelievable.
You can buy rubber fuel hose anywhere.
Most people with odd carbys use it. A whole damn lot cheaper and easier than purpose made metal lines.
Every carb'd car I've owned has had rubber somewhere in the lines, factory or not, its still there.

Not pure rubber though...most are different blends of material as the octane additives corrode rubber anyway...benzenes etc...

[Jack91]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Yep, even more reason to have ethanol blends, so there is more oil to go around...but of course, your "whatever" age car is the only worry, right?

Ifs funny how all the people against ethanol cannot provide a solution to the problem of declining oil reserves...

Yeah. Because E10 will completely fix the whole problem right? So, what then? The "reserves" will last 10% longer? Its always the stupid yuppies that are all about this crap that live in the houses with the heaters and aircons on, drive the sports cars, living the whole modern life and the fancy food. If you're that concerned about it, why dont you sell your car and walk everywhere? Because its ridiculous right? And you dont want to right? Now you know how us devils and anti environment nazzis feel.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Not pure rubber though...most are different blends of material as the octane additives corrode rubber anyway...benzenes etc...

speaking of rubber hoses or seals, 10% metho is bad but toluene, benzene, ketone, thinners and so on is ok..

[Revolver]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Nope...not doing major and expensive modifications to my engine just to use the stuff, not stopping using or selling my old car so people can feel smug that it's mandated. Most of the cars I have seen people get excited about on this very forum would be off the road if it was mandated.

I refuse to have my right to drive whatever age car I want denied because the government decides we shouldn't be allowed to use the fuel they were designed for. And before you say "What about leaded", there have, from the beginning, been additives that fix that problem. There's no such additive to "fix" ethanol blend fuels for old cars.


Oh that evil big oil and gas industry using fossil fuels...
Interesting little list...
http://info.drillinginfo.com/75-ways...-gas-industry/


As for price...people have very short memories don't they? Remember that dirt cheap old fuel LP Gas? Change your car over, and the system could be paid off in a couple of years with fuel savings! Awesome! Then the government encouraged as many people as possible to convert through subsidised systems. Then, magically, the tax on LPG started to go up...and up...and up. Until now it's just not viable to use as a vehicle fuel because of price.
What do people think is going to happen to the subsidies keeping ethanol blends so cheap once it's mandated and people have no choice...?

Yeah, plenty of people have been running their older cars with no problems. What is so special about your car that it would suddenly self destruct at the first whiff of ethanol?

Once again your crying poor me. Obviously you missed my point in the post.

Ever tried thinking of someone else bar yourself and your wallet?

I would surmise rather easily that the first word of the above quote would answer that question.

[GCRXR6]

Originally Posted by burnz

speaking of rubber hoses or seals, 10% metho is bad but toluene, benzene, ketone, thinners and so on is ok..

Metho is bad because it is ethanol. Check the label.

[burnz]

that's my point 10%metho E10, that's bad.
90% petrol (benzene/toluene) that's good.

it's all in the name, if govco said were going to mandate 10% methanol
rev heads would be jumping for joy.

lets face it people love alcohol but not in their cars
methanol (wood alcohol) maybe call it LEVY
ethanol (sugar alcohol) call this one TAX
same but just worded different....

[wookie836]

ha i like this thread, you guys act as if switching fuel is going to save the world. but youre still burning fuel for the cars arent you??
slacktivism stroking that feel good part of your brains. so if youre gonna start using 10% blended ethanol fuel, really youre only using 10% less fuel. big savings for the world, hi 5 captain planet all round guys! dont really see how 10% less oil consumption is gonna be the game changer.

oil reserves are not dwindling, theres so much oil out there thats still untapped. if we reall had a oil crisis tomorrow that would seriously dent the worlds supply, over night the other wells would get tapped. basic rules of supply and demand. while the big oil corporations of the west, own the worlds banking systems, the only thing that is going to change in the next 2 decades is how much you pay for fuel, whether youre paying top dollar for oil base fuel, or paying top dollar for blended fuel.

[wookie836]

i remember when lpg was 15c a litre, now its consistently approaching 90c. to think that ethanol wont go down that same path is ludicrous

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by wookie836

i remember when lpg was 15c a litre, now its consistently approaching 90c. to think that ethanol wont go down that same path is ludicrous

Its...


Not...


About...



cost...

[wookie836]

it will be to the majority of society who needs to buy fuel. i dont understand how 10% ethanol blended fuel is such a environmental saver with its lower emissions but higher fuel consumption. it cant be anything more than 10% better over fuel. thats certainly going to save us from al gores hockey stick environmental charts

[NAK302]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Its...


Not...


About...



cost...

perhaps to some of us it is, so you need to get over the fact that some people are sick and tired of being ripped off by governments who keep mandating stuff for their own agendas.

[Outbackjack]

My motorcycle (1400GTR)has a note in the owners manual. "Never use fuel that contains ethanol" I wonder what Mr Katter will do to compenate all the people that can suddenly no longer use their chosen mode of transport.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by GT-0733

perhaps to some of us it is, so you need to get over the fact that some people are sick and tired of being ripped off by governments who keep mandating stuff for their own agendas.

Yes, but that's for all fuel's across the board, not limited to E10...and a different issue...one that will never be fixed.