What is it with trade in's ?

[barrys123]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

It is all it is worth to a dealer as a trade in price - try buying one for 2k with that mileage.

Dealers make more money on the resale of good low mileage, late model trade-ins, then they do on a new car sale as most of their profit on a new car comes from servicing and warranty payments from the manufacturer and the profit they make from setting up finance and insurance as there is not a big markup from wholesale price.

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

It is all it is worth to a dealer as a trade in price - try buying one for 2k with that mileage.

Yep, you can't, but caryards need to feed their families too. I'm not complaining.

My point was, that's all they're worth. There's no point holding out for any more. Sure I could have got more if I sold it privately. I didn't want the hassle.

We tend to get attached to our cars and then overvalue them. Realistically any Falcon/commodore more than 10 years old is worth practically nothing.

It will be interesting to see where things go once Holden and Toyota shutdown, I tend to think used prices will go up once people wake up to what we have really lost and there is no replacement.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by Mercury Bullet

Yep, you can't, but caryards need to feed their families too. I'm not complaining.

My point was, that's all they're worth. There's no point holding out for any more. Sure I could have got more if I sold it privately. I didn't want the hassle.

We tend to get attached to our cars and then overvalue them. Realistically any Falcon/commodore more than 10 years old is worth practically nothing.

It will be interesting to see where things go once Holden and Toyota shutdown, I tend to think used prices will go up once people wake up to what we have really lost and there is no replacement.

It is your car and you can with it as you please. What car is worth is a relative thing and it is also not a fixed number - your car is going to be sold to someone for 5k and you could say to that someone it is worth 5 k. So how much is it really worth 2k or 5 k ?

[cro142]

New car dealers will very rarely "buy" your car when they trade it in - they simply cannot afford to have heaps of money tied up to pay for trade-ins.

What happens is that your dealer salesman or dealer "valuer" will phone a wholesaler while they are looking at your trade in. The wholesaler will give a price over the phone, or, the wholesalers have reps travelling all over town buying "trade-ins" from dealers, while the new-car deal is being done.

So you will usually be selling your old car to a wholesaler at wholesale price.

So it goes like this:
1. The wholesaler gives a price for your car at say $10K.

2. The dealer will offer you say $9K to cover himself, or maybe even $10K.

3. If your car is good enough, it may be "sold" to the used car division of your new car dealer- they are usually separate businesses, but they only buy a very few, very particular trade-ins, and only then if the used car division wants another one of your model on the day.

4. Otherwise the wholesaler buys your trade-in and will pay for it when the changeover happens.

5. Then your trade-in will then be sold to another used car dealer at auction, or directly by negotiation. The used car dealer will pay say $11K for it, as the wholesaler is also there to pay his bills and feed his kids. He does high-volume, low-margin business.

6. The used car dealer then prepares the car for sale and puts it on his lot for say $17K. He gives a discount of $1000 to clinch the deal with the next buyer, so he gets $16K for it.

7. This leaves only a $5K margin. From this he has to pay the preparation costs, all his overheads (Rent, advertising, office costs, power, wages yada yada yada.) And he has to make a profit to keep his doors open.

8. So you are left pretty unhappy as you have seen similar cars to yours advertised at car yards for $17 or $18K, and they only offer $9K as a trade-in.

That's how the market works. These numbers may not be strictly accurate, but the process is correct, and you can see that there are a lot of costs along the way that will set the value of your trade-in.

And it is YOU who pays ALL these costs.

[mechanic]

Anyone here ever worked as a mechanic in a dealership or used car yard?
Getting a used vehicle ready for sale is a nightmare, very seldom is it straightforward as he has to offer the warranty and believe me buyers are well aware of how much they can grind out of a business.
I have never seen a used vehicle that can be traded and put on the lot as is, if it does happen it would be as rare as frogs feathers.
Buyers have a lot of choice these days, cheap 4 cylinder buzzboxes that have flooded the market in recent years.
Used FWD cars normally have or will very quickly have CV joint issues, front suspension struts etc.
I can see why a RWD 6 would be a reasonable used car option and they have been for a lot of years but they're not what people want these days. It's the economical small car that costs bugger all new that's selling.
If selling used cars looks to be an easy way to make a lot of money then there's nothing stopping people setting up a business.

[Blue Shadow]

Originally Posted by mechanic

anyone here ever worked as a mechanic in a dealership or used car yard?
Getting a used vehicle ready for sale is a nightmare, very seldom is it straightforward as he has to offer the warranty and believe me buyers are well aware of how much they can grind out of a business.
I have never seen a used vehicle that can be traded and put on the lot as is, if it does happen it would be as rare as frogs feathers.
Buyers have a lot of choice these days, cheap 4 cylinder buzzboxes that have flooded the market in recent years.
Used fwd cars normally have or will very quickly have cv joint issues, front suspension struts etc.
I can see why a rwd 6 would be a reasonable used car option and they have been for a lot of years but they're not what people want these days. It's the economical small car that costs bugger all new that's selling.
If selling used cars looks to be an easy way to make a lot of money then there's nothing stopping people setting up a business.

spot on

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by mechanic

Anyone here ever worked as a mechanic in a dealership or used car yard?
Getting a used vehicle ready for sale is a nightmare, very seldom is it straightforward as he has to offer the warranty and believe me buyers are well aware of how much they can grind out of a business.
I have never seen a used vehicle that can be traded and put on the lot as is, if it does happen it would be as rare as frogs feathers.
Buyers have a lot of choice these days, cheap 4 cylinder buzzboxes that have flooded the market in recent years.
Used FWD cars normally have or will very quickly have CV joint issues, front suspension struts etc.
I can see why a RWD 6 would be a reasonable used car option and they have been for a lot of years but they're not what people want these days. It's the economical small car that costs bugger all new that's selling.
If selling used cars looks to be an easy way to make a lot of money then there's nothing stopping people setting up a business.

Great description of the process involved - I generally keep my cars in good condition and they only need a detail prior to sale . For that reason trade in as much as it is convenient is not really something I would consider. I did have some cars valued by dealers and that was incentive enough to put some work into private sale.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Great description of the process involved - I generally keep my cars in good condition and they only need a detail prior to sale . For that reason trade in as much as it is convenient is not really something I would consider. I did have some cars valued by dealers and that was incentive enough to put some work into private sale.

G'day ..Great post on your experiences on trade in's.. Yesterday at 5pm I picked up my new addition , 2008 FG XR6 in Lightning silver..65,000 kms..Literally drives like a new car..The consultant gave a list of jobs done on the car traded in on a new FGX a few weeks ago..Nothing too big except for a heater/AC control module..so they replaced the whole lot at the Ford dealership at just under a grand..all up they spent nearly $1700 getting the car A1 across the board..
Opened my eyes on it all but your post backs this up..I traded my 2003 Fairmont Ghia with a dodgey CD stacker , a bad in glass antenna Bugger all reception )and an inlet manifold gasket that was needed doing..Engine/tranny / electrics all good though and paint fair to good rated except for a bad blemish on the rear spoiler..They gave me $3500 trade in on the $13,500 price ,including basic warranty for 12 months , free roadside assist for 12 months . Swings and roundabouts..Probably paid a grand too much for this stunning car...and it is...but i definitely got at least that back for my 230,000 kilometres Fairmont..I only paid $4200 for the Fairmont , a year and a half ago..I asked the consultant what happens with my old car and she said that it'd go into the workshop and they'll decide if it's an as traded wholesale car with just a few basic safety matters attended to or if they'll fix the stacker and radio antenna and try to make more in the Trade Yard..It does have Factory Sat Nav..all leather , wood inlay and no sagging roof lining
and the clearcoat is very polishable..I did a little bit with a proper product a few weeks ago and came up lovely..I agree though with the cheap buzzboxes flooding the market..and ALL of us suffer for that..The Button car plan from a couple of decades ago has effectively killed off the Australian car industry.
Cheers Rod,,

[blueoval]

Without trying to sound Hulk-esque, do you think peoples general perception of a falcodore has a lot to do with the trade in values?

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by blueoval

Without trying to sound Hulk-esque, do you think peoples general perception of a falcodore has a lot to do with the trade in values?

Personally, no. As German cars have worse resale value at these ages and kilometres. The biggest issue is simply price conscious people at this end of the market probably want something economical on fuel. I think Falcodore reputation is a strong point - known for being reliable and cheap to fix.

[mechanic]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Personally, no. As German cars have worse resale value at these ages and kilometres. The biggest issue is simply price conscious people at this end of the market probably want something economical on fuel. I think Falcodore reputation is a strong point - known for being reliable and cheap to fix.

Don't know about the present but a few years ago BMW had the quickest depreciation of any car sold in Australia.
Agree with your comment.

[Blue Shadow]

Originally Posted by blueoval

Without trying to sound Hulk-esque, do you think peoples general perception of a falcodore has a lot to do with the trade in values?

I dont think its just commodores and falcons, camarys are ordinary too. So many are somd into fleets after 3-5 later the market is flooded with them

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Be interesting if they accept, doesnt sound like it will be very lucrative for them on the changeover as they will probably end up wholesaling your car for not much. If you get it, it sound like a great deal.

G'day Brazen....Got it.. They honoured the 3.5k on my old Ghia ..They wouldn't budge on $13.5 k on the car but gave me a 12 month base warranty package worth $395..AND a box of chocolates because they found out it was my birthday on Friday when I picked up the lightning silver XR ...Have to say the dealership (Ford) were great..I asked questions , they answered. There was a disclosure about repairs..including they replaced the entire control module for the climate control that didn't function correctly rather than try and fix it.The cost was over $900 for that and also some exhaust repairs..Gee , haven't they picked up their game in recent years ...because at one time they lost the plot..I don't mind paying the extra few bob if you get the quality product..When I bought the Fairmont for a bit over four grand toward the end of 2014. from a rival yard I was promised a fix on the dodgey in dash stacker and to get the previous owners second set of keys..that they'd 'forgotten' to collect..A few weeks on the owner ******** salesman couldn't be contacted and when i did manage to get him again he said the CD stacker was 'too expensive to fix, sorry mate...and the previous owner can't find the other keys..Should have chased them down through Consumer Affairs or Small Claims Tribunal but I didn't..JMC were a breath of fresh air in comparison...Cheers Rod..

[buggerlugs]

Originally Posted by mechanic

Don't know about the present but a few years ago BMW had the quickest depreciation of any car sold in Australia.
Agree with your comment.

I thought HSV's were the worst on depreciation............

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by BFGasUte

Hello,

Any hints about the dealer ? I remember when the GF wanted to buy a Falcon, a VT with 12 months Rego was worth only the Rego, 1 K on a 7 or 8 thousand Car. No deal. We got a refund on the Rego and sold it for $500 as a parts Car. There is always demand for good Utes, even if you parted it out you would go close to double the Trade in offered aside from the Rego refund.

It was Courtney and Patterson.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by BFGasUte

Hello,

Most Cars are not an investment. They are a " Tool " and depreciate. If you buy a fancy one, it will loose more and cost more to keep running. Nealy any old Car that is original will eventually become valuable though. They now last far longer than once, so there are many old ones around because a shiny new one is what most want. Supply and demand. If you dont like it, then you will have to walk. A house is a better investment, but it wont take you places.

G'day BFGasUte...You make a great point...To think that in 2003 my former Fairmont Ghia was around $50,000 out of the showroom door and to think in reality a trade price was $2500 or 5% of it's original value..All that in 13 years..really doesn't make ANY SENSE in spending that much on such cars.
Go the other way..An authenticated XY GTHO brand new was about $5000 or so in 1971 and in the past five years upwards of $300,000 and a lot more for certain cars is even more ridiculous..Without factoring in CPI and other average wage rates etc. issues that's Appreciation of 60,000 times the purchase price...Crazy stuff..Then there's restorations that more often than not cost numerous times the value of the car..but we do it anyway..I think this classifies you as a 'car nut'...but there's many many worse things to be otherwise we'd all be driving throw away buzz boxes by now. Something tells me they already had someone in mind for my old car . It really was pretty good other than the dodgey CD stacker and it did have almost 6 months rego too..I don't care . I got enough to buy a stunning low kms one owner since new XR6..I'm happy...Cheers Rod..

[Brazen]

I think the resale is fine on the BA. It's 13 years old, with close to a quarter million km on it. To be honest after that much use out of it, if I was the original owner who had spent 50k on it, I'd be happy to get anything for it especially if it had been a good and trouble free car for all those years.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I think the resale is fine on the BA. It's 13 years old, with close to a quarter million km on it. To be honest after that much use out of it, if I was the original owner who had spent 50k on it, I'd be happy to get anything for it especially if it had been a good and trouble free car for all those years.

G'day again Brazen...When you look at it that way , yes you're right..With machinery etc..that loses 10% a year for tax purposes..so it's totally depreciated for that reason and insurance in about a decade..so with cars your point is well taken..Cheers Rod..

[cro142]

Originally Posted by blueoval

Without trying to sound Hulk-esque, do you think peoples general perception of a falcodore has a lot to do with the trade in values?

As we have seen above, Falcodores are not the worst for depreciation, but one factor that does impact on the depreciation of these cars is the fact that so many used to be fleet-purchase vehicles.

Remember back 10 or so years ago when 60% of Falcon sales were to fleets.
These fleet cars were sold at substantial discounts, so the depreciation of the whole range was affected, as a lower new price was effectively set.

Then 3 or 4 years later when all these fleet cars come back on to the used market they create a glut - therefore lowering values again.

This double-whammy created a rolling negative impact on the depreciation rate for private buyers.

[Cav]

I traded my 2015 FGX XR6 ute with 15,000 on the clock for a 2015 SZII TS AWD Territory diesel with 10,000 on the clock.

Because I am a Vietnam Veteran I don't pay GST, stamp duty etc.

I paid $28,000 for the ute and got $26,000 trade in.

The dealer has listed the ute for sale at $30,900. As he will have to pay GST on the sale, you can see that he will not be making much out of the deal.

I sold my 1962 XL Falcon for $14,500 (the same amount I paid for it a couple of years ago) and used that money to buy the Territory.

The changeover amount was roughly $11,500. The dealer delivered the Territory to me from Victoria and I had to then register it in NSW. The dealer supplied the blue slip. I then had to pay green slip and about $100 for the plates. Pensioner rego and no stamp duty. Plus car insurance of about $660.

Are youse blokes jealous yet?

Overall I am very happy with the deal; and the Territory of course.

This dealer has a lot of Ford exec vehicles for sale and I will probably look at updating the Territory in two years time with another Ford Exec vehicle from the same dealer.

Just drove the Territory to Queanbeyan and return today and got 8.0 l/100kms.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Blue Roo

Ah yes. But once Ford Australia stops making cars at the end of the year. And starts to import them. I think you find people will prefer the older and reliable Aussie built cars, like the AU or the BA. These cars will become popular again and the prices will start to climb.

The reason they are closing down is simply because the mainstream have moved on to SUV's and other brands. I don't think Ford enthusiasts will make any dent at all for a few decades in the selling price of a Falcon, let alone move it back up. There are of course still a few BF Cobra owners who live in hope.

[barrys123]

They do not give you a decent trade in, so people are trying to get what they believe their car is worth in their mind by trying to sell them on Gumtree, there's a heap like this for around this price and this is the price dealers are asking in the yard and being a commercial vehicle they don't have to give a warranty, yet try trading one in $2,000 is all they give you.
http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/clare...sis/1104604559

[IanC]

Originally Posted by cro142

As we have seen above, Falcodores are not the worst for depreciation, but one factor that does impact on the depreciation of these cars is the fact that so many used to be fleet-purchase vehicles.

Remember back 10 or so years ago when 60% of Falcon sales were to fleets.
These fleet cars were sold at substantial discounts, so the depreciation of the whole range was affected, as a lower new price was effectively set.

Then 3 or 4 years later when all these fleet cars come back on to the used market they create a glut - therefore lowering values again.

This double-whammy created a rolling negative impact on the depreciation rate for private buyers.

But great for the secondhand buyer. Our family used to get our cars at the Govt auctions and were paying about $17,000 for a car which had a sticker price of $35,000 18 months previously. If you kept the car for ten years as I have with my Falcon wagon then you had very cheap motoring.

[cro142]

Originally Posted by IanC

But great for the secondhand buyer. Our family used to get our cars at the Govt auctions and were paying about $17,000 for a car which had a sticker price of $35,000 18 months previously. If you kept the car for ten years as I have with my Falcon wagon then you had very cheap motoring.

Absolutely agree - our family did the same thing making driving a relatively new cat quite affordable.

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

The reason they are closing down is simply because the mainstream have moved on to SUV's and other brands. I don't think Ford enthusiasts will make any dent at all for a few decades in the selling price of a Falcon, let alone move it back up. There are of course still a few BF Cobra owners who live in hope.

G'day all again....I wonder would the XY Owners and not the GT necessarily either, ever think what their daily driver would bring 45 years on..Nice tidy Futura's, Fairmont's later model XA's , XB's XC's too...Then of course go right back to the start with the XK/XM/XP..still bring good money relative to their new sticker prices...Different demographic and it might be 20 plus years but i think certain modern day Falcons will command respect and attention..IE...Tickford TS/TE 50 , XR6 Turbos , all the genuine GT's of course..I may be wrong but I hope I'm not..Cheers Rod

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by cro142

Absolutely agree - our family did the same thing making driving a relatively new cat quite affordable.

I also agree on this..I bought my AUll Futura in early 2003 just over 2 years old for $14,000..It had 50,000 clicks on it and was owned by the Tasmanian Agriculture Dept , hence the highish kays for 28 months age..I think it would have to be over $30,000 in the showroom , not a fleet sale...Thirteen years on , she still runs great..minimal repairs , original cooling system , drivetrain etc..and apart from a very minor bodywork job when another car clipped the front bumper she's as straight as they come..Near new , proper maintenance has resulted in an extremely reliable car..Still got it , never part with it...and now she has an FG XR6 to share the job with , as of last Friday...Cheers Rod..