Do you warm up your car on cold mornings?

[Qwerty321]

Originally Posted by BAXRSIX

Thanks to everyone for their responses and insights so far, much appreciated.
I did a tally up of all who responded up to this point and here are the results so far;

Of the 56 members who responded and answered the original question...

- 21 or 37.5% said they warm up their car before driving off.

- 35 or 62.5% said they never warm up their car even for a few minutes and drive straight off.

I also get the feeling that if someone owns an old car, is the family hack, a company car, or a runabout that is no longer "loved" then these cars are not "warmed up" before driving off.

It would be interesting to see how the results would differ if it was a brand new car that one wanted to keep for a long time and belonged to an enthusiast owner.

Well I mean the manuals say there's no need to warm up our cars. Also, lets be honest most of us aren't living in places which are properly cold, like the northern states of America or Canada where winter is commonly in the sub-zeros with lots of snow, which is probably where this whole "warm your car
up or it'll break" logic came from.

Oil in modern cars shouldn't have an issue flowing straight from start up. That said don't give the car the beans when it's just been started up, but I highly doubt gentle driving (which is what all the normal folk who aren't hoons like us do usually) will damage a car. Especially when you take a moment to realise your car tries to rev higher in the morning anyway to warm up quicker. Start your car then get yourself settled in (adjust heater/AC, radio etc.) then just drive gently till it's warm. No need to make a big deal out of "warming" your car in the morning.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by Express

I warm up the ones with carbies and the injected ones I drive off as soon as I’m settled.

I just had a quick read of a couple of my owner’s manuals and they couldn’t be any more different.

My Merc says as an environment issue ‘not to warm up the engine with the vehicle stationary’.
As part of the normal driving instructions it says warm up is not necessary and at low engine oil temperatures below 20 Celsius the management system restricts engine speed in order to protect the engine.
It says the engine oil temperature reading will continue flashing until it reaches 80 Celsius and to avoid full engine output during this time.

The VF Commodore says ‘do not subject the engine to full throttle acceleration or high speeds until it has reached normal operating temperature as premature engine wear or damage may result’.

It makes no mention of not warming the car up while idling and I guess that is because it goes on to discuss remote starting for vehicles fitted with automatic transmissions.

With remote start the vehicle can be run for 10 or 20 minutes by pressing the remote once or twice.
If you wish to run it for longer you have to press the engine start button in the vehicle to on then off before the remote start can be used again.

Obviously Holden doesn’t have a problem with idling cars.

Police (and taxi) cars idle for hours on end. One of the reasons they last so long is reduced heat cycling compared to average persons usage.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Don't know about petrol engines, but if a Diesel engine isn't worked hard they can glaze up.

Funny how you mention this, I know a lot of Prime movers work hard hauling loads but then again a lot of them can sit long times idling over.

To be honest the biggest threat of engine glaze is when they are in the running in period.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Nope. Waste of time and fuel. Sit down and start the car first. The only warm up it gets is the 10 or so seconds it takes me to put on my belt and mount my phone. Drive off gently and wait till I see some action on the temp gauge before I drive normally.

[Pis-ton broke]

in the morning ive always warmed up my cars, even the modern cars for at least fives minutes.i dont see that glazing could possibly occur in that time frame.

[BFGasUte]

Hello,

I think the warming up thing is a throw back to the days of Carbs and frosted windows. Warm up your car, the windows are clear, heater works and it wont stall at the 1st intersection. Snake oil sellers have people thinking there is no oil with-out additives. There is still a film, the engine will not be dry.

[Maka]

On a cold start I wont move off until oil pressure is up, don't have to wait long, around 20 seconds or so. Then cruise smoothly till my engine is up to temp & oiled up like a horny milf ha ha!!!

cheer's, Maka

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Express

Heated seats make me want to go to the loo.

Worst feeling ever, I reckon they make you feel like you crapped your dacks, its a horrible feeling

[BFGasUte]

Hello,

I also failed to mention in the previous Post, Anti Freeze ! People used to drain the radiator every night in Cold areas, and if you didnt warm it up you could freeze the radiator. I had to fix a Car for a clever person who said you dont need it in Canberra, the impeller had sheared off the water pump.

[Sox]

Originally Posted by Maka

On a cold start I wont move off until oil pressure is up, don't have to wait long, around 20 seconds or so. Then cruise smoothly till my engine is up to temp & oiled up like a horny milf ha ha!!!

cheer's, Maka

I hope there's some exaggerating going on here, or you have some serious problems with your oil pump.
All my cars take a 2-3 seconds tops for max oil pressure.
Even with an oil/filter change it will only take 4-5 seconds.

[pottery beige]

efi - no

carb - yes

[kcee]

I warm up my car's, efi or not.
I've seen cars of the same age billowing smoke from the exhaust and mine run fine.

However I don't treat my cars kind, they cop regular abuse, If there a red line I'm going to hit it.

I leave the Ute for almost 10 minutes from cold, gets oil temp up and I'm off.

My wife's car, I do what she does, start it up and drive off.
Guess which car we regularly have issues with....

[mike_nofx]

Just a question for the "warmers" here. What is the goal of warming the engine, like the long term goal? Less engine wear? Increased engine life? other?

Dads old AU2, 650k, never warmed up. Engine still runs sweet (though gearbox packed it in). It runs so smooth infact that I'd see no issue with getting another 100-200k.

So is the aim of warming the engine to reach the 1,000,000 kilometer mark?

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Just a question for the "warmers" here. What is the goal of warming the engine, like the long term goal? Less engine wear? Increased engine life? other?

Dads old AU2, 650k, never warmed up. Engine still runs sweet (though gearbox packed it in). It runs so smooth infact that I'd see no issue with getting another 100-200k.

So is the aim of warming the engine to reach the 1,000,000 kilometer mark?

Good question, but for me I'm old school & just a habit I suppose but I see no harm warming as people see no harm driving off from cold.

Cheers.

[Sprint]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Just a question for the "warmers" here. What is the goal of warming the engine, like the long term goal? Less engine wear? Increased engine life? other?

Perhaps some owners care so much for there car they want to do everything right for them, including baby them when they are cold.

Some one might love there new car or have a classic car that cant be replaced, older engines have more erratic clearances so I would always warm a old engine up, the spark plugs run at certain temps but then you look at the drag racers who dump the hot water and put cold in for more power.

The real issue is wear on the engine and lube I suppose. Many hot cars wont run well when cold, my reasons are I love my cars, hell id give them a blankie and kiss goodnight if no one was looking and it wasn't a bit strange .

[Maka]

Originally Posted by Sox

I hope there's some exaggerating going on here, or you have some serious problems with your oil pump.
All my cars take a 2-3 seconds tops for max oil pressure.
Even with an oil/filter change it will only take 4-5 seconds.

G'day Sox, ive never actually measured how long it takes for the needle to get to 3/4's on my o/p dial, but yep its only a couple of seconds. Getting the car started & my seat belts on is about 20 sec after checking the stereo has the right music / channel on.

I could've worded my post a bit better, yep a little exaggeration you could say lol!!!

cheer's, Maka

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Just a question for the "warmers" here. What is the goal of warming the engine, like the long term goal? Less engine wear? Increased engine life? other?

Dads old AU2, 650k, never warmed up. Engine still runs sweet (though gearbox packed it in). It runs so smooth infact that I'd see no issue with getting another 100-200k.

So is the aim of warming the engine to reach the 1,000,000 kilometer mark?

it helps my clunky carb fed bucket of sh not be a bucket of sh when cold

sort of

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Those that let their car idle warm, how long do you keep em? I'm pretty sure no dramas show up in 3-5 years up to 100k km's.
JP

My old sr (bf2) is 8 years old abou 140.000kms. Now this car is started and driven....at one stage thrashed from cold. But normally just started and driven. Car still going strong....as my folks now own the car. But its an i6....so not really an engine that you worry about failing.

[BFGasUte]

Hello,

On the subject of Chokes and Carbs, they were all new once and under warranty. Most would have been OK, but we are spoiled a bit with RFI. See how well a 4 X runs with a Carb on a big angle ! Many people watch Dad, and keep doing what he did. I am often amused seeing someone holding the roof down.......... No doubt learned from Dad.

[Davehoos]

Oil life never been an issue for me as im a mechanic and oil was very cheap. 150 000Km I would not expect issues with a car built after the 1970's, my 260 000Km rattled the tappets for the first time last week.it has 5K on good oil.

Never had to warm up my AU-[petrol] , I turn the a/c of until until the temp gauge is in the bottom of the normal. heater works after 5 KM.
LPG version I could modify to reduce problems and stop the im stopped on the roadside phone calls.

BF e gas takes about the time to wipe the windows clean before the heater works. the road from my home has upslope and it will freeze up if it isn't idled.

EA/ED with visco hub-I had to allow these to warm up and often had to use petrol only till warmed up-or blanking plate in front of the radiator in the winter.

took at least 15Km for my R31 to warm up, and at least 10 km before the 4th gear would select[tempswitch]. My carby fed cars would often freeze the manifold during a trip needing more oil changes.cars sold in fridgid regions had intake warming methods and Japanese/American carby often had better auto chokes.

In cold frosty weather I have had oil pressure cavitation issues solved with using very light oil-but the fact was the heavier oil was needed to stop the engine rattles.

in days gone by I used heat exchanger as part of the oil filter to keep the oil temp similar to coolant temp. Very common issue on older diesels as they struggle to generate enough heat with light loads of slow traffic. with the Nissan/mitsubishi cars the heat exchanger was cheap to get an fit to oz built cars using northern Japanese parts.

[sprintman1]

Originally Posted by Pis-ton broke

in the morning ive always warmed up my cars, even the modern cars for at least fives minutes.i dont see that glazing could possibly occur in that time frame.

Raw fuel washing the cylinder wall oil away not to mention fuel dilution of the oil and all it entails. Not the smartest thing to do with any engine
ever understood why people accelerate engine wear doing this..........

[Falcman0o7]

Start it and floor it.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by sprintman1

Raw fuel washing the cylinder wall oil away not to mention fuel dilution of the oil and all it entails. Not the smartest thing to do with any engine
ever understood why people accelerate engine wear doing this..........

What you think the cylinders walls don't get lubricated with every piston stroke with the use of modern synthetic oils, I doubt very much warming engine at idle will contribute to any excessive wear & tear.

[MattSAU2XR8]

Part of the reason for 'warming up' is different expansion rates for different parts. In general aluminium will expand a little more than steel and iron for example. So assuming aluminium pistons and cylinder head +/- block, and steel head bolts +/- iron block:
- Until operating temperature is reached the pistons won't fit so tight in the bores, and so might have more slop, and wear at loaded surfaces, although the oil film may also the thicker, hence glazing
- The head gasket won't be clamped down quiet as tight, so possibly a little easier to blow a gasket if flogged when cold
I don't think this means you need to sit idling though, just not flog the car till the needle is in the normal range

[castellan]

Originally Posted by MattSAU2XR8

Part of the reason for 'warming up' is different expansion rates for different parts. In general aluminium will expand a little more than steel and iron for example. So assuming aluminium pistons and cylinder head +/- block, and steel head bolts +/- iron block:
- Until operating temperature is reached the pistons won't fit so tight in the bores, and so might have more slop, and wear at loaded surfaces, although the oil film may also the thicker, hence glazing
- The head gasket won't be clamped down quiet as tight, so possibly a little easier to blow a gasket if flogged when cold
I don't think this means you need to sit idling though, just not flog the car till the needle is in the normal range

The oil film hence the glazing ?

The only so called running in has to do with the piston rings to the bore and a glazed bore is only to do with that the rings have not pushed hard enough to the bore, that's the number one cause of a glazed bore.

The rings never touch the bore at all, as there is always a film of oil between the ring and the bore.

When running in, we are trying to seat the ring to bore and that's done by pressure, so loading the rings by driving the car harder is the thing one must do and if you just pussy foot it, the ring does not seat into the bore.

You seat the ring into the bore so it will hold better compression, if the bore is glazed she losses compression because it's got a bad seal.

I would think in an older engine what happens is the so called glazing starts out as something that eventually leads to what is called glazing, due to the rings are never pushed hard enough into the bore to wipe away such a thing that leads to what's called glazing.
So such a thing just gets worse and it comes to a point where you can't do anything about it, but I have heard that some people have saved the engine in time before it got to that point and give it a good thrashing and she came good, but it will never become good if she has gone to far and all you will get when thrashing it, is oil coming out the breathers and into the intake and that when you see smoke coming out the exhaust.

The reason why the ring and the bore wear, is due to the crap that's floating about between the oil.
The ring can't touch the bore and if it did it would be destroyed instantly.

If you look at the face of a new ring you will see she is not smooth like an old use one, it's been designed to bed into the bore.

The number one thing to do with not getting up a cold engines is if you have a engine with forged pistons as they have more clearance then a cast piston and with forged most likely it will have more power as well then a stock car, so add both more clearance and more power

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by Sprint

Perhaps some owners care so much for there car they want to do everything right for them, including baby them when they are cold.

Some one might love there new car or have a classic car that cant be replaced, older engines have more erratic clearances so I would always warm a old engine up, the spark plugs run at certain temps but then you look at the drag racers who dump the hot water and put cold in for more power.

The real issue is wear on the engine and lube I suppose. Many hot cars wont run well when cold, my reasons are I love my cars, hell id give them a blankie and kiss goodnight if no one was looking and it wasn't a bit strange .

Hmm, well I feel the debate about weather to warm or not to warm isn't about acknowledging that "warming is better but is it worth it?" but more, "IS warming actually better, or is it possibly worse for your engine?"

Yes I'd support anything which can prolong the life of the engine you want to baby, BUT could you be doing more damage by idling an engine for 5 minutes when cold every day?

Its been mentioned that Carbied and/or worked engines just do not want to run when cold so this is of course an exception. But how about fuel injected cars that run fine from the get go?

[GO FURTHER]

I sometimes wish that Ford engineers (including ex-Ford employed ones) would chime in on debates like this to give a definitive answer, even if only "anonymously" since they may not be able to voice their opinion publicly as an employee. At least, in reference to warm or not warm up a modern day Falcon.
I believe Ford Australia often frequent (read) many of the posts on this great forum.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by BAXRSIX

I sometimes wish that Ford engineers (including ex-Ford employed ones) would chime in on debates like this to give a definitive answer, even if only "anonymously" since they may not be able to voice their opinion publicly as an employee. At least, in reference to warm or not warm up a modern day Falcon.
I believe Ford Australia often frequent (read) many of the posts on this great forum.

Or read the manual in your car. Who do think provide the info in there?

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Or read the manual in your car. Who do think provide the info in there?

Well, I just went and read my car manual, and there is nothing contained within it that relates to warming up my Falcon on a cold morning before driving off.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by BAXRSIX

I sometimes wish that Ford engineers (including ex-Ford employed ones) would chime in on debates like this to give a definitive answer, even if only "anonymously" since they may not be able to voice their opinion publicly as an employee. At least, in reference to warm or not warm up a modern day Falcon.
I believe Ford Australia often frequent (read) many of the posts on this great forum.

Go ask any automotive mechanic, I'm sure they would qualify to answer this question.