Teen critical after road-spike crash - Page 4

Wally · 01-12-2006, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MAGPIE

Not at all, I'd be disapointed with what they had done and I'd be greatly relieved that they hadn't harmed an innocent party. I would also have no sympathy whatsover.

You live by the sword, you die by the sword.

So what level of guilt demands a potential death sentence for the errant driver? If stealing a car is punishable by death what does driving on bald tyres warrant , 10 years?

**Full Noise** · 01-12-2006, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

So what level of guilt demands a potential death sentence for the errant driver? If stealing a car is punishable by death what does driving on bald tyres warrant , 10 years?

Its not so much the car theft, it’s the running from police and the potential that has for some innocent person to be injured or killed.

Have you ever seen the aftermath of a chase like this when it all goes wrong?

Why do you think that armed robbery is treated so seriously? Because it has the potential to turn into murder very quickly.

Redrum · 01-12-2006, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

Ah, but unlike you I do have a clue. Nonsense logic that a guy in a stolen car coulda, shoulda, woulda is all just speculation.

If we are so hell bent on throwing up red herrings on injury to third parties, what about the police pursuing the bloke at 170 kph on a road that is also being used by other motorists? What if this guy was travelling at 170 kph and he hit a car coming the other way at 100 kph? The only reason he was doing that speed in the first place is that he was trying to escape. They may not be the sharpest pencil in the pack, but cops like any driver know that speed kills. If I went out and threw a spiked strip in front of a moving car that was packed with suspected thugs, killers and terrorists I would be hauled before the courts and prosecuted for a dangerous act, not withstanding the fact the victims hadn't been successfully prosecuted through the courts and found guilty.

It's not an issue of whether the young guys committed a crime of stealing a car, it's an issue of how much you value someone's life and how quick people are to applaud the unnecessary taking of it. Police aren't allowed to take a thug who has just raped and beaten an 80 year old pensioner and kill him, yet they are allowed to create an environment that encourages the death and serious injury of a lout that has stolen a piece of inanimate metal and create a dangerous situation for all the other drivers sharing the strip of bitumen.

Even on this forum we have members who make wholesale changes to their vehicles and don't get the necessary permits. I know in my case I am apparently the first guy in Qld to get the proper road transport approval in shoe horning a 302 into an XP. Does that mean every member here that has broken the rule of law, posted here that they have a problems with their brakes, but continued to drive, had engine problems, but continued to drive etc must be severely dealt with and mocked by his peers? Maybe it does, but I don't think so.

Police have the obligation to protect the community. I know for a fact from experience that people who drive stolen cars quite often drive them at excessive speeds and break the road laws without any consideration for other road users. (even when not involved in pursuits) If they steal a car in the first place, which under Victorian Law, is a serious indictable offence, they generally do not give a damn about what other laws they break. Under current force policy police can and will pursue stolen vehicles. They are quite often called off when they become too dangerous. The day we stop pursuing stolen vehicles is the day every single offender will merely just drive off. This pursuit may have started as an elective pursuit but when the offender kept driving at excessive speed and was judged to soon be a danger to other road users, then Victoria Police must act and had little choice but to deploy the stop sticks. It is unfortunate that the offenders were injured, but they chose to steal a car, they chose to drive it in a manner dangerous recklessly endangering life.

That is the issue at hand. Not this emotional waffling that you have thrown into your arguments.

I speak from driving in four high speed pursuits and being involved in another 3 as a passenger. I am fully aware of the dangers all face and the responsibilities I have.

The issues of modified cars and appropriate punishment are completely separate.

MAGPIE · 01-12-2006, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

So what level of guilt demands a potential death sentence for the errant driver? If stealing a car is punishable by death what does driving on bald tyres warrant , 10 years?

Well depends on if you crash and kill someone due to your car being unroadworthy

:

Although according to your logic it wouldn't be the drivers (of the car with bald tyres) fault anyway.... "they were just a victim" right.

banarcus · 01-12-2006, 02:47 PM

Guys and girls, from my experience this may not have been the first time they have stolen a car. Grubs will be grubs and they love to steal other peoples property and it wouldn't surprise me or anyone else here in the know if this particular tool had stolen cars in the past. Let me guess, what car did they steal this time......hmm a VL or a VN or perhaps a EA or an XF. Tis a shame a young life was lost but really, when the do-gooders want the Police to stop pursuing grubs then what next?

Auslandau · 01-12-2006, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

[We all have to deal with the consequences of our actions. It was their actions that caused this event to occur. Well I guess the public should be warned that if you steal a car you have a pretty good chance of being killed by zealous police [/QUOTE]

UM........stealing cars and running from police is a dangerous sport that can/will result in someone being hurt. The offender or bystanders. If it wasnt dangerous and had serious consiquences, I myself would be driving that HO I always wanted........borrowed of course!

: If they need to be warned as they were so stupid, well frankly they deserve what was coming to them.

Really this is getting bit silly. Wally I think you are just stiring things up because you really can t be serious and you are sitting back having a chuckle?

| [/url] |

Ford_Boy · 01-12-2006, 03:25 PM

i agree, wally hasnt come up with any alternative to stop the boys. the police were responsible enough to stop the pursuit and lay spikes down instead.

yes, maybe the boys were just young and full of life with nothing better to do to get them excited. they decided to steal a car. they got caught by the police and panicked.

they may have endagerd peoples lives and it was well done to the police who stopped them. yes it would be sad if they died and they dont deserve death but if they did die then there would be no1 to blame but the boys.

its not always about the way they are brought up. i know people with great parents but they turn out to be theives and drug atics. people do stupid things when they are young and they get punished for them. death is real harsh. there are more eveil things in life.

after saying all that though, if they did hit inocent people then i hope they die for resisting arrest. anyone know what car they stole?

4Vman · 01-12-2006, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

So what level of guilt demands a potential death sentence for the errant driver? If stealing a car is punishable by death what does driving on bald tyres warrant , 10 years?

They had total control of their own destiny, no one forced them to run, but they foolishly did anyway, and they must accept the risks (and potential outcome) associated with that choice, had spikes not been used they may very well have run off the road and both died and potentially the occupants of another vehicle, the way i see it is they got off relatively lightly when its all said and done, and so did the rest of community at large, its bitter pill to swallow, but we all have choices... Avoiding capture by the Police ISNT one of them.

XAGSV8 · 01-12-2006, 08:40 PM

It's bleeding hearts like Wally that run our courts in this country.

Blue Oval Mopar Man · 01-12-2006, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by photn

another wonderfull american invention. and as most of them designed to be "SAFE"...

now dont get me wrong....what those kids where doing is stupid and wreckless. but spikes....come on... there has to be other Methods....

Oh , OK, Blame the USA for these Knobheads risking the lives of others. If the cops just let them careen on their merry way and ended up killing someone innocent motorist their would be hell to pay !I These little r kelly's got exactly what they were asking for !!!!!! Only trouble is they survived !

Blue Oval Mopar Man · 01-12-2006, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XYSEDAN

i'm not a fan of anything that deflates a tyre, clearly if the police called off the chase then the bloke wasn't gunna slow down, and personally i don't know why on earth they would put them out 40km after the chase had ended!
flat tires at high speeds make the car pretty much uncontrolable!
god dammit our government is stupid!
but then again they could think of another way to slow the car, maybe like wat they do off 2 Fast 2 Furious LOL make an EMP thingo that sux all your batteries power!

Yeah right XYSEDAN , too bad we all dont live in hollywood huh ?????

Blue Oval Mopar Man · 01-12-2006, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brendo83

I think the spike strips they use over here are a bit different to the ones the yanks use, they are designed to make the tyre slowly deflate rather than blow out like in the US,

I think we have another brain surgeon here ! The "US" verions have never made tyres "BLOW OUT" . Right from the start these portable deflation devices have been many , sharp , hollow tubes , designed to penitrate the tyre and break away from the flexable frame to slowly deflate the tyre giving the driver enough time to stop after realising he will soon have flat tyres !

Maybe these other brain surgeons are playing to much grand theft auto on playstation too !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

XR Martin · 01-12-2006, 10:03 PM

In all the police chase videos from the US I have watched, I have never seen a car careen out of control after hitting road spikes. Usually they crash trying to avoid them, or try and continue to drive at warp speed on four flat tyres.

**Silver Ghia** · 01-12-2006, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

In all the police chase videos from the US I have watched, I have never seen a car careen out of control after hitting road spikes. Usually they crash trying to avoid them, or try and continue to drive at warp speed on four flat tyres.

I thought I read somewhere that they were trying to drive around the spikes.

I say the police got 10/10 for their actions in stopping the car and preventing a potentially dangerous situation where innocent people could've become involved.

MITCHAY · 01-12-2006, 11:04 PM

As far as I'm concerned the cops could of delibrately put the car into a tree and I wouldn't care less. They want to be a dumbarse, they pay for it!

I can't believe the fallout some cops get from these chases like that Macquarie Fields riot.

It was that ******** who stole the cars fault, yet they wanted to shift the blame onto the cops.

If they weren't trying to run from the cops they wouldn't have crashed. It is exactly that simple!

As much as there are very bright people in the world, there are 10x that many which are damn right stupid.

HOON69 · 01-12-2006, 11:05 PM

im not a fan of high speed chases of any kind unless your a friggin axe murderer or a rapist etc

16 yr old/stolen car= speed if they were smart(police) you'd use that tax paid thngy called POLAIR and follow at a safer speed etc and wait for them to dump it.

road spikes at speed are dangerous PERIOD,think if he didnt crash and he kept going at speed into peak hour with a car with next to nothing under it except bae metal grinding etc

we adopt to many american tactics and its pathetic i dont condone criminal activities but i see no point in these kinds of incidences that have 5 different ways of ending and this one luckilly worked in the favour of police and noone was killed.

Deadman · 01-12-2006, 11:13 PM

Good on the cops.

Barry_v · 02-12-2006, 12:08 AM

If it was their own car you could mistake it for being young and foolish. but it wasnt, it was stolen. it was pre-meditated.

100% support the cops actions, their intentions and motives were just even if it wasnt a perfect ending.

Walkinshaw · 02-12-2006, 12:17 AM

Wally, reading above there is nothing more that is required to totally debunk your position on this matter.

It's with great honor that you are here by nominated for the AFF Twat of the Month Award.

HOON69 · 02-12-2006, 12:40 AM

preach,talk it up,do what ever makes you feel warm and fuzzy in that beer gut of yours,but they didnt crash the car into anyone and they didnt ask for their tyres to be deflatted,not that im excusing their foolish,reckless,criminal behaviour,but you'll think that a cop can do what ever they please as long as they "catch their man" were talking about 16 yr old teens not some 40 yr old with a 20yr criminal history and wanted for armed robbery etc,some ya'll should wake up to yourselves they are kids and your basically riding them off for life etc and basically wishing they were dead in a sick kind of way,yep they stole a car yep they sped away from police and yep they deserve to be caught but ya'll think its fair game to catch them at all cost even to the point of it costs them their lives,that imho is BS and wrong.

dont know what programme you's are on but reality is,WE AINT AMERICA and we dont need to risk,our lives,police officers lives and the publics lives over some stupid stolen vehicle,and guess what because of the actions of them both the thief and the police theres a person without a car anymore,yep the guy stole it but the guy didnt just wreck all by himself did he?

rant over

im not condoning criminal activity but you'll got me stumped how someone deserves pain/death etc because of their actionssome attitudes are appauling.

Walkinshaw · 02-12-2006, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOON69

preach,talk it up,do what ever makes you feel warm and fuzzy in that beer gut of yours,but they didnt crash the car into anyone and they didnt ask for their tyres to be deflatted,not that im excusing their foolish,reckless,criminal behaviour,but you'll think that a cop can do what ever they please as long as they "catch their man" were talking about 16 yr old teens not some 40 yr old with a 20yr criminal history and wanted for armed robbery etc,some ya'll should wake up to yourselves they are kids and your basically riding them off for life etc and basically wishing they were dead in a sick kind of way,yep they stole a car yep they sped away from police and yep they deserve to be caught but ya'll think its fair game to catch them at all cost even to the point of it costs them their lives,that imho is BS and wrong.

dont know what programme you's are on but reality is,WE AINT AMERICA and we dont need to risk,our lives,police officers lives and the publics lives over some stupid stolen vehicle,and guess what because of the actions of them both the thief and the police theres a person without a car anymore,yep the guy stole it but the guy didnt just wreck all by himself did he?

rant over

im not condoning criminal activity but you'll got me stumped how someone deserves pain/death etc because of their actionssome attitudes are appauling.

You're right. We should give the guys a hand shake, a rhodes scholarship and they keys to the city hey.

HOON69 · 02-12-2006, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walkinshaw

You're right. We should give the guys a hand shake, a rhodes scholarship and they keys to the city hey.

nope we should give the crims a jail term etc when they are caught etc

but since when is a death sentence required over such a offence or even such strategy such as blowing out someones tyres at such high speeds its a instant accident waiting to happen,so death in mandatory now is it :P

so whens the ****ing contest begin or have we passedthat stage and now onto whom has the biggest pee shooter on FFAU?

Walkinshaw · 02-12-2006, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOON69

but they didnt crash the car into anyone and they didnt ask for their tyres to be deflatted,

Their tyres? Surely you're not implying that the theft of the vehicle falls under some form of squatters rights and they own the vehicle??

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOON69

were talking about 16 yr old teens not some 40 yr old with a 20yr criminal history and wanted for armed robbery etc

Suddenly you're placing diffrent values on peoples heads due to their age........

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOON69

some ya'll should wake up to yourselves they are kids and your basically riding them off for life etc

No, they made that choice when they decided to engage in such activity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOON69

.....and guess what because of the actions of them both the thief and the police theres a person without a car anymore,yep the guy stole it but the guy didnt just wreck all by himself did he?

He sure did. He was the only one who was using the strip of road in a fassion contary to road laws.

HOON69 · 02-12-2006, 01:00 AM

ANYTHING ELSE

:

Walkinshaw · 02-12-2006, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOON69

ANYTHING ELSE

:

Yeah, try again

Psycho Chicken · 02-12-2006, 01:06 AM

No shit they didn't hit any innocent people. The cops got in first, like they should of.

You play with fire, you're gonna get burnt.

Walkinshaw · 02-12-2006, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOON69

and as you aint in their heads or in their shoes whom ae you to judge them you know nothing more then whats written on some forum etc you dont know their history,the circumstances or the full facts yet your ready to write them off as another scum of the earth worthy of only death *get off your high horse noones perfect not even you*

Thats fantastic. I suppose due to the fact that a magistrate or a jury is not in their heads/shoes, they also can't pass judgement.

No state of mind (heads) or life position (shoes), can justify their actions of

(1) Auto theft
(2) Evading police
(3) Endangering public

There is a BIG gap between sainthood and dero car theiving scum.