Are Fpv/Tickfords Overated

[CATFORD]

"The next obvious observation in automotive terms that any comparison with products not of the same generation is a complete waste of oxygen. Can't be done and a waste of space and time doing so."

Waste of oxygen....this coming from a Tasmanian....interesting....kidding mate....look maybe I did get it out the way I wanted...I will try to simplify it....

Basically are FPV's overated in comparision to the normal run of the mill Ford range eg XR8, XR6T etc...as for comparing cars from different generations....I think you can....I dont mean BAGT, BFGT v's XBGT, XYGT that is completely rediculous....I mean that when the XYGT came out they were definately worth the extra cash over a XY Fairmont with a V8.....because you got the extra horses under the bonnet....these days the BF GT gets a massive 30 kw over the XR8 and F6 also only get and extra 30 kws....this is why I believe the FPV range is overated.....for $75000 for a GTP....I would want and expect more then 30 kw over a stock XR8!!!

After reading this it's no simpler at all....actually im getting confused :

Lets just kill this thread....it is obvious 75% to 25% that people believe FPV's are worth the extra cash over the run of the mill Ford stable!!!!

Thanks for all the coments....it was amusing!!!

[TS50]

What I dont think you get Catford, is that with a FPV, you simply dont just get a extra 30 kW, you get more of a total package. If you looked at i only get an extra 30 kw, you wouldnt buy one, But the FPV goes further than just power, its the way it handles, the way it brakes, the way it looks, the way it feels. Total package

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by CATFORD

....these days the BF GT gets a massive 30 kw over the XR8 and F6 also only get and extra 30 kws....this is why I believe the FPV range is overated.....for $75000 for a GTP....I would want and expect more then 30 kw over a stock XR8!!!

And this is what most people base there judgement on, as was just said there is more to an FPV than just the power.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by XRQTR

And this is what most people base there judgement on, as was just said there is more to an FPV than just the power.

Agree'd, some people are too fixated with just outright power numbers, and base their whole opinion about the "value" of a car simply on what the number on the badge says...
As has been said a thousand times, there's far more to a performance car than just its advertised power figures.... Those who own or have driven them know that the total package is far more important.
FPV make VERY good vehicles, but as HSE2 rightly says though sometimes they struggle to deliver upto their own marketing statements, that doesnt mean the product is bad though, just that the marketing message is "over stated"..

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by CATFORD

"The next obvious observation in automotive terms that any comparison with products not of the same generation is a complete waste of oxygen. Can't be done and a waste of space and time doing so."

Waste of oxygen....this coming from a Tasmanian....interesting....kidding mate....look maybe I did get it out the way I wanted...I will try to simplify it....

Basically are FPV's overated in comparision to the normal run of the mill Ford range eg XR8, XR6T etc...as for comparing cars from different generations....I think you can....I dont mean BAGT, BFGT v's XBGT, XYGT that is completely rediculous....I mean that when the XYGT came out they were definately worth the extra cash over a XY Fairmont with a V8.....because you got the extra horses under the bonnet....these days the BF GT gets a massive 30 kw over the XR8 and F6 also only get and extra 30 kws....this is why I believe the FPV range is overated.....for $75000 for a GTP....I would want and expect more then 30 kw over a stock XR8!!!

After reading this it's no simpler at all....actually im getting confused :

Lets just kill this thread....it is obvious 75% to 25% that people believe FPV's are worth the extra cash over the run of the mill Ford stable!!!!

Thanks for all the coments....it was amusing!!!

You are forgetting that in 1970 the extra money probably equates to much more then the present margin of an XR8 over a GT. While in dollar terms it might not look much today, it took a long time back then to save that extra money.

However the point of a GT-P being overrated compared to the rest of the FPV range is closer to the truth.

For the sake of this conversation the entry level GT would be a better example compared to an XR8 and then its not so much the number of kws that is the difference it the way those kws come on given the tune of the respective engines.

[CATFORD]

Seriously.......what was the average income in 1970.....I'm guessing $10000.....a GTHO was worth $6500-10000.....this day and age the average income is $45000......Yet a GT-P is worth $75000....to me it seem the new model are the rediculously price ones....Bang for bucks the whole V8 range in the FPV is rubbish they are to heavy lack genuine N/A performance....they are a truck motor....not a sedan engine.....and the only way Ford could compete with Holden in the performance side of things was to turbocharge the 4ltr 6....and the only way the BOSS is ever going to compete with the LS2 and LS1 for that matter is if they supercharge it!!!!

It is Ford "PERFORMANCE" Vehicles isn't it....????

P.S....I understand there is more to performance then horsepower but it a pretty important part surely!!!!

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by CATFORD

Seriously.......what was the average income in 1970.....I'm guessing $10000.....a GTHO was worth $6500-10000.....this day and age the average income is $45000......Yet a GT-P is worth $75000....to me it seem the new model are the rediculously price ones....Bang for bucks the whole V8 range in the FPV is rubbish they are to heavy lack genuine N/A performance....they are a truck motor....not a sedan engine.....and the only way Ford could compete with Holden in the performance side of things was to turbocharge the 4ltr 6....and the only way the BOSS is ever going to compete with the LS2 and LS1 for that matter is if they supercharge it!!!!

It is Ford "PERFORMANCE" Vehicles isn't it....????

A Phase 3 was worth $5312 in 1971, im not sure of the average wage in 71 but id say its less than the cost of the Phase 3.... I bet in real terms a GT-P is cheaper today than a Phase 3 was in 1971! Ford struggled to sell all 300 Phase 3's in a 12 month period, and they lost money on each sale at that price.

[HSE2]

As a guess you aren't far off, only about 100%. The average income in 1970 was closer to $4000, but thats not the full story.

[merlin]

Originally Posted by CATFORD

Seriously.......what was the average income in 1970.....I'm guessing $10000.....a GTHO was worth $6500-10000.....this day and age the average income is $45000......Yet a GT-P is worth $75000..!!!!

$45K sounded about right to me as I heard that on the news the other day, but I just went and checked the ABS website (www.abs.gov.au) and the current average weekly wage is $1051 which by my calcs is $58K a year.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

A Phase 3 was worth $5312 in 1971, im not sure of the average wage in 71 but id say its less than the cost of the Phase 3.... I bet in real terms a GT-P is cheaper today than a Phase 3 was in 1971!

You are correct.

[CATFORD]

Yeah I'm not sure about the income's would be interesting to find out....I tried look at the Australian Statistics site....but its all paper records back in 1970-1985....!!!

[CATFORD]

Originally Posted by HSE2

As a guess you aren't far off, only about 100%. The average income in 1970 was closer to $4000, but thats not the full story.

Well like I said it was a guess.....what do you drive anyway....is it a FPV/Tickford by any chance????

[TS50]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

A Phase 3 was worth $5312 in 1971, im not sure of the average wage in 71 but id say its less than the cost of the Phase 3.... I bet in real terms a GT-P is cheaper today than a Phase 3 was in 1971! Ford struggled to sell all 300 Phase 3's in a 12 month period, and they lost money on each sale at that price.

Amazing isnt it, in 1971 Ford struggled to sell 300 Phase 3, now people are paying massive amonts for them. I was only 13 in 71, not old enough or rich enough, but I always wanted one. Stupidist thing I did was decline to buy one in 1980 for $10,000. Was about to get married, needed the money
Sigh

[GlennBA]

Originally Posted by data_mine

You forgot the Super Pursuit.

And how do you figure the GT-P is a rip off? It's an optioned up GT, with a different badge, plus a few things you CAN'T option. Yeah the drive line is the same.

Whats the difference? different seats? they're so overpriced imo. Super pursuit is in the same boat as the GT-P and forces imo.. Not so much the super pursuit and GT_p.. but the forces are a disgusting ripoff. You're paying shitloads more for less of a car. Its outreageous.
F6 and GT are worth it imo.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by TS50

Amazing isnt it, in 1971 Ford struggled to sell 300 Phase 3, now people are paying massive amonts for them. I was only 13 in 71, not old enough or rich enough, but I always wanted one. Stupidist thing I did was decline to buy one in 1980 for $10,000. Was about to get married, needed the money
Sigh

Yep! i was only 4 in 1971! Dad bought an XY and all i remember him talking about from about the age of 6 was how much he wished he could have afforded the Phase 3... By 1980, (only 9 years on) really good examples were bringing 15-20K... that's 3-4 times their original price in 9 years!

[TS50]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Yep! i was only 4 in 1971! Dad bought an XY and all i remember him talking about from about the age of 6 was how much he wished he could have afforded the Phase 3... By 1980, (only 9 years on) really good examples were bringing 15-20K... that's 3-4 times their original price in 9 years!

Well the 10K one i was offered was good value then, i know it had been flogged
but..............

[Tickford GT]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Yep! i was only 4 in 1971! Dad bought an XY and all i remember him talking about from about the age of 6 was how much he wished he could have afforded the Phase 3... By 1980, (only 9 years on) really good examples were bringing 15-20K... that's 3-4 times their original price in 9 years!

yep in 1981 mate got a new 302 XD for $9000
traded it in 6mths later on xw-gt for $10,000

[FordFan86]

"Are Fpv/Tickfords Overated"

"No"
:P

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

[CATFORD]

Just found out on the ABS site the average weekly wage in 1971 for a blue collar worker was $200 or $10400 p.a and for White collar it was $360 or $18720 p.a.....not sure if this is before tax though!!!

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by CATFORD

Well like I said it was a guess.....what do you drive anyway....is it a FPV/Tickford by any chance????

That’s irrelevant because like I said the answer to the question is both yes and no.

I have absolutely no argument against saying my GT-P is overrated. It is the way I look at it, other owners would argue differently but the question wasn't about individual products inside an entity that is Tickford/FPV.

The difference is that although the product doesn’t sit where I would like it to in terms of performance recognition, it was still a purchase I could justify to myself and that’s the key. Don’t buy something to appease anyone other then oneself. A bigger question would be does it really matter?

When you get a car from the FPV stable applauded as the F6 has been its pretty hard to argue that the product is overrated. They make probably the best performance sedan in the country and that covers all eras. I have just returned from test driving a BF2 F6. It’s a wonderful car and in BF 2 trim offers exceptional value compared to the previous models. Options that were additional are now standard and many options that remain are cheaper to buy. Depending on options the car is at least 2 k cheaper. Its hard to say a 60k car offers exceptional value but the F6 does. Australian performance car of the year just got better value. That’s not overrated.

If the sole purpose of a car is to get to B from A then anything superfluous to that intention will be seen as extravagance or perhaps overrated. Manufacturers position cars to certain buyer demographics within the market.

Everyone will have a different view and everyone will be correct- for themselves.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by CATFORD

Just found out on the ABS site the average weekly wage in 1971 for a blue collar worker was $200 or $10400 p.a and for White collar it was $360 or $18720 p.a.....not sure if this is before tax though!!!

"In 1970-71, a marginal rate of 47.7 per cent (including levies) was imposed once you started earning $8801. In 2004 values, this translates into an annual income of about $70,500. Given that the 48.5 per cent tax threshold will rise to $70,001 in July, Quiggin is justified in saying our current top-rate bracket is little different from its equivalent 30-odd years ago.

What this ignores, however, is that far fewer people earned this sort of money back then. The average income in 1970-71 was just over $4000, so you had to earn 2.2 times the average before you started paying tax at 47.7 per cent. Only 4 per cent of taxpayers earned this much.= Today, by contrast, workers pay 48.5 per cent tax when they reach 1.3 times average earnings. One in seven taxpayers is on this marginal rate four times as many as in 1970 . "

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by XDaaron

Performance wise i'd say they're overated..

but a non FPV/tickford won't be as collectable in a few decades as a fpv/tickford.


Just look at the xygt

Hmmmmm thats an interesting comment, are you one of those people that has to have the power output on the side of his car because of something else thats lacking? have you ever drivin a T car of FPV. T cars might not have the power now compared to a GT (although a T3 is lineball) they are getting abit old to remember but are performance cars in their own tight so they are by no means overated. I know what id rather be driving

[Focussed]

I reckon if you could afford one, you'd say they are worth every cent.
if you can't afford one & could only get the XR8 or XR6T, you'd probably say they are overrated.

[CATFORD]

Originally Posted by Focussed

I reckon if you could afford one, you'd say they are worth every cent.
if you can't afford one & could only get the XR8 or XR6T, you'd probably say they are overrated.

Yeah that's it....NOT!!!

[Brent]

I can only speak as a relative newbie to the FPV world, but after covering my first 1,000kms in my BF GT, I can firmly say that its not overrated at all. Its a lot more car than an XT with a V8, and it FEELS it as well. FPV interior, great seats, the rumble of the V8, the wheels, the brakes, the suspension, bodykit, and just the way it feels, even when standing still......its all part of the package.

Is it perfect? No-sir-ee. A fair bit too much road rumble finds its way into the cabin, and yeah, that BOSS redline does come up a tad too quickly. I don't know if the term "GT" is still supposed to stand for "Grand Tourer" as it did 30 years ago, but if so, the GT's an awesome grand tourer. The F6 appeals to a slightly different buyer and lends itself to almost endless mods if that's your thing.

Good cars, and they go damned well in the context of a very comfortable family sized sedan.

Brent.

[Deadman]

Originally Posted by Focussed

I reckon if you could afford one, you'd say they are worth every cent.
if you can't afford one & could only get the XR8 or XR6T, you'd probably say they are overrated.

Hrmm, or another slant;

there could be some people out there who can easily afford them - but don't buy them because they don't see the value in the extra $.

then there could be those who sacrifice every cent they have and forgo everything else just to get one - who are ofcourse going to say they are worth everything.

:sm_headba

[GTP 320]

Originally Posted by sbutler

Overated compaired to what??
The're are among the best made in Australia, & I think rank somwere in the top ten when compaired with the current crop of performance cars here & overseas, & probably the top 2 in there price range. The only competitor here is HSV & there pretty close in that market segment..

As for compairing them to the old school car, there no contest, the current cars would murder the old ones in every area!

Fully agree with you ,could'nt have said it any better.
As much as they get knocked by some people the FPV and HSV really do stand up well against some of it's competiters from overseas and they cost a whole lot less.
We should be proud of these two Aussie products and what they have to offer.
Cheers John

[PHATXR8]

Originally Posted by HSE2

"In 1970-71, a marginal rate of 47.7 per cent (including levies) was imposed once you started earning $8801. In 2004 values, this translates into an annual income of about $70,500. Given that the 48.5 per cent tax threshold will rise to $70,001 in July, Quiggin is justified in saying our current top-rate bracket is little different from its equivalent 30-odd years ago.

What this ignores, however, is that far fewer people earned this sort of money back then. The average income in 1970-71 was just over $4000, so you had to earn 2.2 times the average before you started paying tax at 47.7 per cent. Only 4 per cent of taxpayers earned this much.= Today, by contrast, workers pay 48.5 per cent tax when they reach 1.3 times average earnings. One in seven taxpayers is on this marginal rate four times as many as in 1970 . "

Actually the top marginal tax rate today, including Medicare Levy of 1.5%, is 46.5%. This kicks in when your taxable income hits $150,000, not $70,001 as staed by HSE2

[HSE2]

Which is why the article states "In 2004 values"

[nugget378]

Originally Posted by sbutler

As for compairing them to the old school car, there no contest, the current cars would murder the old ones in every area!

Big statement youve made there,sure in creature comforts,road noise and refinement,but in BFYB performance and driver experience I dont think so..