Bathurst getting booring? - Page 5

kircher · 12-10-2009, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJL351

You're making a lot of claims and suggestions for someone that doesn't really follow motorsport.

I don't follow Wood Cutting, but have seen it on TV a couple of times - and I'd feel very out of place making stupid suggestions as to how improve a sport i barely know or watch.

Keyword = religiously. I said I don't follow it religiously. Sometimes I think people don't read things properly. I'm more interested in the cars and the tech than the drivers and how close you can make the competition with restrictive rules. The drivers change teams frequently anyway. That's why I have no interest in Nascar, and it's one of the closest forms of competition in the world, yet the cars are all exactly the same, just like v8 supercars. I did not say anything about barely knowing anything about it or not watching it. I can almost bet I know a lot more about the sport than the average v8 supercar nut, and I'm no gambler. Most wouldn't know that they use basically identical engines, and suspension based on early 90s Australian cars. I know a lot of people who wouldn't care even if I told them. They'd still stand up in the stand and wave the Holden banner because Holdens are better because they win at Bathurst. I do indeed like motorsport, but I have said I can't afford to go to every single race around the world. I would love to go to the 24 hour Nurburgring, or Le Mans, even enter in the prior, but that is not possible. I am however seriously contemplating going to the 12 hour in February.

Quite a few years ago I actually assumed the V8s were close to production. I liked the sport enough to look up the technical regulations and I was shocked to read 302 Windsor and 302 Chevy. I read further and shock: live rear axle with watts linkage, I read further and found they had a control drivetrain and when I realised there was NOTHING shared between the race cars and the road cars I felt cheated and deceived. I then thought "what is the point of going for Ford or Holden when neither are actually Ford or Holden". Why not put a generic body on the cars and call them X. I had previously been a Ford fan. Now I just don't care. How many of the bogans with Holden flags at the race actually know the car they are supporting is not a Holden? How many fans know this? not many. As a side note; how many people that aren't motorsport fans would have read the F1 regulations just to find out what the maximum bore of the engine is? It's 98mm by the way. I had to look it up to find out. Anyway, V8 supercars is clearly just mass produced entertainment. There is no value given to true motorsport tenets of increasing performance and continued development. Where's the evolution?

So before saying things that have no foundation and using bad analogies, read and think.

No hard feelings

Kircher

Thankfull · 12-10-2009, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluehoon

Getting, long got boring.

Bathurst is now like the V8 nutters version of Mardi gras.

Put a GT & R8 on track for 1000kms with a set number of tyre changes only and let's see a real race.
Race Sunday, drive Monday.

enough of this tart up kit special rubbish where the only difference is some stickers...

Totaly agree.....originaly Bathurst was about you raced what came off the Show room floor.

The only problem was the Wild Henrys back then where way tooo Wild for Holdens to keep pace with....as in not just track pace but costs in developing.

That has changed now and Holden are building good standard production V8s again.

Perhaps it is time to go back to the production race...you race what you sell to the public...

Cheers

FreddyDUZ747 · 12-10-2009, 04:24 PM

Their is a Production series isnt their?

mrbaxr6t · 12-10-2009, 04:24 PM

what gets me with v8 supercars is the teams taking it easy to conserve tyres or fuel, for christ sake you are racing go full tilt or get the hell out of the way, and I agree we all love the underdog leading being chased down by the faster car, this doesn't happen in v8s its a game of tenths, open it up and let turbo 6 cylinders have a whip at it, at least then we might see locally developed engines in the damn things, before you start v8 fanbois wouldn't it be incredible seeing some faster <cough> v8 hunting some slower 6 cyl turbo or vice versa, as the cars are so identical its a game of tenths for the lead, i mean the first 6 this year crossed the line in under 2 seconds...

4Vman · 12-10-2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gilmore

Their is a Production series isnt their?

There is.. but no one watches it or goes to it because its even more boring...

Im not sure what people want from motorsport? Maybe a high speed smash up derby would be more inline with peoples entertainment expectations...?
Or <insert fanboi brand here> winning by 6 laps like the old days?

ltd · 12-10-2009, 07:43 PM

Realistically, I think a lot of Ford fans were left feeling a little deflated by the fact that the hot favourite Lowndes and 888 is leaving the ford camp, so even a victory for the falcon would be a bit hollow. That was the case with myself anyway and therefore the race was a bit boring. That, and the thousands of bloody ads.
Random firings of water cannons on every corner would make it more interesting though; I'd love to see Rick Kelly cry after getting wet.

jamesson1980 · 12-10-2009, 07:56 PM

Here's a sort of irrelevant question but it's about Bathurst so I'l put in in here anyways..
What did ford do for a V8 supercar in the dark years of non V8 falcons 1984 - 1991?? Did they stick a big V8 in the XF and EA or use something different?
I'm sure I could hunt the info down online but I thought I'd ask the enthusiasts instead.
EA Supercar.. grouse!

vztrt · 12-10-2009, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamesson1980

Here's a sort of irrelevant question but it's about Bathurst so I'l put in in here anyways..
What did ford do for a V8 supercar in the dark years of non V8 falcons 1984 - 1991??
I'm sure I could hunt the info down online but I thought I'd ask the enthusiasts instead.
EA Supercar.. grouse!

They used Sierra's. Extremely modified road cars.

burnz · 12-10-2009, 08:03 PM

the only change i'd like to see in the current series.
is the removal of the rev limiter and the return of the "H" pattern box.

that way when a driver want's to pass he can do it but it comes with a risk.
and the old box to put in an element of mistake.

galaxy xr8 · 12-10-2009, 08:06 PM

Yes and those day's with the Sierra's were some of Ford's finest, they had a good winning vehicle, the Sierra won a lot of races and championship's back then.

05MkIIFutura · 12-10-2009, 08:36 PM

Why cant people just take the V8's for what they are - entertainment. No one thinks they are the fleet Falcon or Commodore they buy from the dealer. Yes people feel a bit of aussie pride watching the aussie based sedans running around the mountain, but at the end of the day it is about drinking beer, watching fast cars, and looking at boobies.

Fireblade · 12-10-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 05MkIIFutura

Why cant people just take the V8's for what they are - entertainment. No one thinks they are the fleet Falcon or Commodore they buy from the dealer. Yes people feel a bit of aussie pride watching the aussie based sedans running around the mountain, but at the end of the day it is about drinking beer, watching fast cars, and looking at boobies.

Totally agree, the people that want it to go back to production type racing obviously dont know a bout the GTP series and just goes to show the support it gets when it comes to fans, maybe V8SC need to become a lemans series or open wheeler series just to make some people happy with the evolution of the series.

Nikked · 12-10-2009, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 05MkIIFutura

Why cant people just take the V8's for what they are - entertainment. No one thinks they are the fleet Falcon or Commodore they buy from the dealer. Yes people feel a bit of aussie pride watching the aussie based sedans running around the mountain, but at the end of the day it is about drinking beer, watching fast cars, and looking at boobies.

Exactly, the noise, look and speed that they have provides the entertainment.

As usual, people want things to happen easy for them. Change this change that etc, not realising that what they want is aready available...

blownv8au · 12-10-2009, 10:35 PM

i watched bathurst like i do every year but have been quite deflate6sine6,the 888 debacle. bloody phone, will repost after work lol.

Rodp · 12-10-2009, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 05MkIIFutura

Why cant people just take the V8's for what they are - entertainment. No one thinks they are the fleet Falcon or Commodore they buy from the dealer.

Don't count on that. I know several guys personally that take a dig at me if a 'Holden' wins Bathurst or a Championship because Holden know how to build proper V8's and Ford don't.

These were the same guys that I had convinced for weeks the original BA XR8 photos before release were spy pics of the new SS - was absolutely gorgeous and miles ahead of anything Ford would ever build they would tell me daily.

However, they spent the next 3 years telling me how ugly my BA XR8 was when I bought one.

Fireblade · 12-10-2009, 10:47 PM

Just to stump them ask them what design did holden copy for there V8SC heads?

kircher · 12-10-2009, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F6 FOON

Just to stump them ask them what design did holden copy for there V8SC heads?

are they yates heads?

FERG_51 · 12-10-2009, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

Don't count on that. I know several guys personally that take a dig at me if a 'Holden' wins Bathurst or a Championship because Holden know how to build proper V8's and Ford don't.

These were the same guys that I had convinced for weeks the original BA XR8 photos before release were spy pics of the new SS - was absolutely gorgeous and miles ahead of anything Ford would ever build they would tell me daily.

However, they spent the next 3 years telling me how ugly my BA XR8 was when I bought one.

Bogans.

Fireblade · 12-10-2009, 10:51 PM

The design of the heads for holdens aurora engine was copied from the 4v cleveland head. And then throw in the 9 inch diff, the suspension design and they have more ford in them than holden

prydey · 12-10-2009, 11:58 PM

i fail to understand why people want australia's top racing category to be downgraded to 2nd grade.

we have purpose built race cars providing good quality close racing.

how many people calling for a production car series have actually watched the current production car series. the cars aren't that quick, and the ford's get their backsides handed to them 9/10 times.

also, there is no way the manufacturers would get involved building 'homologated specials' so that they could win on race day. those days are gone. the auto industry is broke. anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

Fireblade · 13-10-2009, 12:48 AM

I love the championship the way it is except for one thing, the lopsidedness of the Holden vs Ford, but that is the Team owners and Avesco responsibilty and they have let the Fans down, forget about manufacturer backing as not all teams were ever going to get it anyway.

**DJR-351** · 13-10-2009, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

i fail to understand why people want australia's top racing category to be downgraded to 2nd grade.

we have purpose built race cars providing good quality close racing.

how many people calling for a production car series have actually watched the current production car series. the cars aren't that quick, and the ford's get their backsides handed to them 9/10 times.

also, there is no way the manufacturers would get involved building 'homologated specials' so that they could win on race day. those days are gone. the auto industry is broke. anyone who thinks otherwise is kidding themselves.

...and there in lies the problem for some Ford fans...

Fireblade · 13-10-2009, 01:00 AM

But to defend that look at what cars they are up against in that category.

**DJR-351** · 13-10-2009, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F6 FOON

But to defend that look at what cars they are up against in that category.

...dosen't matter, some Ford fans suffer so much tunnel vision that they find it unbearable to see a Ford lose, and while i dont expect the premier race to revert to a production based format i would prefer it opened to other manufacturers, in other words i would like to see the Falcon kick the **** of someone other than the Holden Commodore...

And if it don't thats ok by me, i get just as much enjoyment from watching them have a go...

blownv8au · 13-10-2009, 03:01 AM

i don't think bathurst should be part of the championship it should be stand alone so you don 't have teams and drivers worried about championship points. then they might have more of a go. i love the v8sc but the brutes are more interesting to watch i reckon, when i was at townsville i was more interested in the utes they hang it out more theres abit of rubbing and a desire two win not just rack up points. but i'll keep watching like i always do even after the 888 crap because i'm a car nut and a ford lover and will always support the product or one day there might not be one. cheers

prydey · 13-10-2009, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F6 FOON

But to defend that look at what cars they are up against in that category.

they are normally up against their respective opposition from the general. GT v clubbie, xr8/xr6t v ss.

generally there is 2 or 3 clubbie's out there though and only a couple of fords all up. a lot of it probably comes down to teams and drivers and what they choose. the clubbie has shown that it can mix it with the evo's up front whereas the fords are normally fighting it out mid pack with their class. i must admit i've only ever seen an fpv (GT) car out there a couple of times.

while the xr8 may be a decent car to own as a family car, its not really built for trackwork. weight distribution is all wrong with that big donk over the front wheels. having said that they do often still outperform the 6t's esp at tracks like bathurst.

noosacuda · 13-10-2009, 02:58 PM

V8 Supers are and have been crap for years,ever since it has been a 2 horse (make) race. The Biante Series is a million times better to watch! More skill, less technology and closer racing with REAL muscle cars.

4Vman · 13-10-2009, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

they are normally up against their respective opposition from the general. GT v clubbie, xr8/xr6t v ss.

generally there is 2 or 3 clubbie's out there though and only a couple of fords all up. a lot of it probably comes down to teams and drivers and what they choose. the clubbie has shown that it can mix it with the evo's up front whereas the fords are normally fighting it out mid pack with their class. i must admit i've only ever seen an fpv (GT) car out there a couple of times.

while the xr8 may be a decent car to own as a family car, its not really built for trackwork. weight distribution is all wrong with that big donk over the front wheels. having said that they do often still outperform the 6t's esp at tracks like bathurst.

Actually the XR8 has been the best performing Ford on track for the past 4 years.. and that's including the XR6t, GT and F6...
The teams that run them have got a handle on it now, and it doesnt suffer heat soak issues like the T cars do..

burnz · 13-10-2009, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Actually the XR8 has been the best performing Ford on track for the past 4 years.. and that's including the XR6t, GT and F6...
The teams that run them have got a handle on it now, and it doesnt suffer heat soak issues like the T cars do..

is that the three valve beating the four valve??
if so why is that??

4Vman · 13-10-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

is that the three valve beating the four valve??
if so why is that??

HUH? the XR8 runs the 4 valve BOSS engine like the GT.