SS vs XR8 and the winner is......

[uniacidz]

Originally Posted by mik

yeah but how cheap do you want it done ;).

Exactly.

Back on topic, been in both FG, VF, VE latest types and what I have owned.

To me, now comes down to interior comfort. Not bells and whistles which are nice, but simple things like seat height, comfort and pleasure to drive.

The Falcon is just too high for the seats, and steering wheel too low.

To me, makes me feel uncomfortable.

People have been mentioning this since the later E-Series variants through to current but no respite
It's like the seats are designed by midgets

Whilst power and performance is nice, comfort is more important. Can always add power later on if you want to.







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[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by uniacidz

Exactly.

Back on topic, been in both FG, VF, VE latest types and what I have owned.

To me, now comes down to interior comfort. Not bells and whistles which are nice, but simple things like seat height, comfort and pleasure to drive.

The Falcon is just too high for the seats, and steering wheel too low.

To me, makes me feel uncomfortable.

People have been mentioning this since the later E-Series variants through to current but no respite
It's like the seats are designed by midgets

Whilst power and performance is nice, comfort is more important. Can always add power later on if you want to.







Sent via HTC Velocity + [HolicsROM v1.3] [SWEEP2WAKE]

I'm 6"1 and I have no idea what people are on about with poor seating comments.
My wife is short and if the seating is so high, why does she need to have the seat lifted to maximum height.
I reckon some journo made a comment one day and everyone ran with it. I think it's very likely it's far more to do with visual perceptions between the two cars. Design,Sill heights, dash heights and size of a and b pillars.

And yes I've tried to get some of the more vocal guys(on this subject) on here that own BOTH falcons and commadores to grab a few measurements....but it seems easier for them to whinge instead....

[1TUFFUTE]

And yes I'm pretty sure the entry a WP supercharger kit for the 6.0ss is 19k. Then there's the newer 25k kits for the 6 and the 6.2s!
Either way...I'd contest after watching the above posted vids that.....the commadore chasis can't handle that much power....lol heard that before
There's nothing but tire smoke and wheel grabbing in the course test. Then there's the 0-100 tests.
SS. 6.2secs
SS. 4.7secs. 500kw 800nm
R8. 4.5secs. 550kw. 1000nm

I'd love to see these cars at a hot tuner test

[uniacidz]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

I'm 6"1 and I have no idea what people are on about with poor seating comments.
My wife is short and if the seating is so high, why does she need to have the seat lifted to maximum height.
I reckon some journo made a comment one day and everyone ran with it. I think it's very likely it's far more to do with visual perceptions between the two cars. Design,Sill heights, dash heights and size of a and b pillars.

And yes I've tried to get some of the more vocal guys(on this subject) on here that own BOTH falcons and commadores to grab a few measurements....but it seems easier for them to whinge instead....

What measurements you after?

And since I have compared already on my personal cars, which are older type, can provide some basics like head room to steering wheel to leg measurements






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[Giant Cranium]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

I'm 6"1 and I have no idea what people are on about with poor seating comments.

My wife is short and if the seating is so high, why does she need to have the seat lifted to maximum height.

I reckon some journo made a comment one day and everyone ran with it. I think it's very likely it's far more to do with visual perceptions between the two cars. Design,Sill heights, dash heights and size of a and b pillars.



And yes I've tried to get some of the more vocal guys(on this subject) on here that own BOTH falcons and commadores to grab a few measurements....but it seems easier for them to whinge instead....

Short blokes always say there is nothing wrong with the seating position.

What I have noticed is you sit lower in a falcon than a commie but the wheel in the commie raises more which gives you more leg room.

Jumped in a fgx the other day, went for the wheel but it was already at full height and all the way out. But after 5 mins driving I prefer the falcon. So much easier to see out of it

[GTP534]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

This is true. Walkinshaw covers the warranty, which is why I said the Walkinshaw kit covers the warranty (not Holden itself). Plenty of people bought the kits without knowing this. I'm not sure how it would work if something does break, but for the price those kits cost ($6k and up) it would seem that Walkinshaw has already built potential breakages into the price.

This neighbour is pretty happy with it and understood about the warranty. He looks after it very well. (We became friends just after they moved into the area and I helped him push his VE HSV R8 when it had a flat battery!)

I must admit, it is the nicest sounding exhaust in the street!!

[SensationFG8]

The walky is an awesome sounding exhaust, mate of mine has one. Stock for stock though the XR8 wins the noise stakes.

[tapeworm]

Why is the SS apparently more refined? Isn't it running a pushrod lump and inferior transmissions? It just has a more modern dash from what I see

[XtRmn8]

Originally Posted by tapeworm

Why is the SS apparently more refined? Isn't it running a pushrod lump and inferior transmissions? It just has a more modern dash from what I see

Remember its also carbureted!

But luckily it does have power steering, otherwise it would be impossible to park with that huge lump of 350ci iron hanging over the front wheels.

[suzy_peter]

haha come on, carburettor? You must admit that GM did a good job, particularly with the VE. A billion dollars in R&D does account for a lot. I reckon the problem with them is that the interior lets them down a little with some of the materials used. A great deal of the work that was done with them was underneath. Despite what's been said they are considerably stronger/more rigid than prior models. I know this is a Ford forum and I'm a Ford fan, but the GM product is still a very good one. As for pushrod engines... When I drive a car, I never think about how many camshafts it has or where they are, be it Ford GM etc. I enjoy the car for what it is. Pushrod technology makes little difference. Wolseley were using OHC engines in the 1920's, Alfa were using DOHC engines in the 1930's. Take a look at what most high horsepower engines are in the US... pushrod. If you want to be modern and talk technology, you should buy a Prius...

Sorry, one more thing... inferior transmissions aren't the case, my Tremec T56 is brilliant.

[SensationFG8]

Its a ford forum, you're right. Quite simply we don't need to talk the Holden up plenty of people here already to do that. SS lost this round, that doesn't make it a bad car, it just makes it inferior to the present offering from ford.

[Dr Smith]

http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-revi...3#.VHplqGccQuU

VERDICT
As we prepare to farewell the Falcon forever in 2016, the new XR8 makes for a very fitting swansong. It’s way faster than any XR8 before it and makes a great sound from both ends while it’s doing it.
The FG X XR8 a brilliant drive on a twisty road, and for the same price as a Commodore SSV Redline, the Holden won’t know what’s hit it.
Given the Falcon’s sales slide in recent years, nobody expected revolutionary changes for the FG X, but what Ford has managed has certainly boosted its appeal.
There’s no doubt that we’ll look back on the FG X as one of the all-time greats when they’re no longer available in showrooms. Ladies and gentlemen, get ‘em while they’re hot.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

I'm 6"1 and I have no idea what people are on about with poor seating comments.

wow, my daughter's miniature poodle/cavalier cross is bigger then you.....but it can't drive yet

[duaned]

Has anyone taken delivery of the best performance bargain (XR8) to ever be released from the Ford motor group as of yet?

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by duaned

Has anyone taken delivery of the best performance bargain (XR8) to ever be released from the Ford motor group as of yet?

XBv8mmm! (Garry) has his, and he's had it over a week.
Surprised no one else has gotten theirs yet.
I think he said quite a few are being bought by employees

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by uniacidz

What measurements you after?

And since I have compared already on my personal cars, which are older type, can provide some basics like head room to steering wheel to leg measurements






Sent via HTC Velocity + [HolicsROM v1.3] [SWEEP2WAKE]

Basically park them on the same flat ground and get some measurements from floor to sill, floor to seat base, floor to bottom of wheel, floor to dash, floor to top of door opening, and both bottom and top of window opening. Any number you can compare that will help compare the actual seating heights.(oh and not just the actual heights, anything that makes you FEEL like your sitting lower or higher. Gap between dash and roof lining or a pillar size for eg)
Don't forget XRs or sports models may have slightly diff suspension heights. I'm sure if it's factory a suitable number can be found to correct if that's an issue.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Giant Cranium

Short blokes always say there is nothing wrong with the seating position.

What I have noticed is you sit lower in a falcon than a commie but the wheel in the commie raises more which gives you more leg room.

Jumped in a fgx the other day, went for the wheel but it was already at full height and all the way out. But after 5 mins driving I prefer the falcon. So much easier to see out of it

I've NEVER once heard someone who didn't like the seating position point out it was only a problem getting in and out. It's ALWAYS a blanket "I hate the seating position"......untill you of course

[suzy_peter]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

Its a ford forum, you're right. Quite simply we don't need to talk the Holden up plenty of people here already to do that. SS lost this round, that doesn't make it a bad car, it just makes it inferior to the present offering from ford.

All good, but constructive comparison can't be made where information offered on an alternate product is ill informed... it's tantamount to pointless banter. From what I've read on this thread, the Holden isn't being "talked up," the input offered is relevant to automotive comparison in the real world.

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by suzy_peter

haha come on, carburettor? You must admit that GM did a good job, particularly with the VE. A billion dollars in R&D does account for a lot.

But is the billion dollar baby TWICE as good as the HALF a billion dollar FG?

[suzy_peter]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

But is the billion dollar baby TWICE as good as the HALF a billion dollar FG?

Good point mate, nope it isn't at all...

[arronm]

Originally Posted by uniacidz

Exactly.

Back on topic, been in both FG, VF, VE latest types and what I have owned.

To me, now comes down to interior comfort. Not bells and whistles which are nice, but simple things like seat height, comfort and pleasure to drive.

The Falcon is just too high for the seats, and steering wheel too low.

To me, makes me feel uncomfortable.

People have been mentioning this since the later E-Series variants through to current but no respite
It's like the seats are designed by midgets

Whilst power and performance is nice, comfort is more important. Can always add power later on if you want to.







Sent via HTC Velocity + [HolicsROM v1.3] [SWEEP2WAKE]

I do feel I sit higher in my wifes BF. BUT the biggest difference I have notice from driving all our family cars EF AU BA BF VE VF. IS the VF flat bottomed steering wheel makes it so much easier when getting in and out.

[XBv8mmm!]

Originally Posted by duaned

Has anyone taken delivery of the best performance bargain (XR8) to ever be released from the Ford motor group as of yet?

Yep.

Last Thursday.
Brilliant!!!!!!!!!

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

But is the billion dollar baby TWICE as good as the HALF a billion dollar FG?

Remember "billion dollar baby" was an all new sedan, wagon, ute & long wheelbase which were all LHD capable. FG was just the sedan and ute, both retaining the existing rear suspension and much of the chassis/floorpan, so more a re-skinned BF than a truly all new car. This is why you can bolt things like BF seats into an FG. Holden needed an all new car, the existing Opel sourced platforms were pitiful. Ford has been good at evolving their platform over time. I'd liken it to Ford renovating an already decent house and Holden having to knock down & rebuild- it cost more but it was necessary.

[2242100]

Originally Posted by tapeworm

Why is the SS apparently more refined? Isn't it running a pushrod lump and inferior transmissions? It just has a more modern dash from what I see

To be fair to Holden, pushrod engines can work very well. Consider the following points.

Around the time that BMW released their 5 litre M5 V10 and their 4 litre V8 M3 engines with around 100 horsepower per litre (of internal capacity), General Motors released their (approx 72 horsepower per litre) big internal capacity LS7 Smallblock 7 litre engine.
The M5 and LS7 engines both had similar power but the M5 motor was a lot larger externally and also heavier.
Coming to the M3 V8, it was fairly close in external size to the LS7 engine and from the specs I saw, apparently just 4 kg's lighter and of course the LS 7 motor was quite a lot more powerful.
Additionally the LS7 was economical for it's performance and also without overhead camshafts I'd expect it to have a lower centre of gravity.

I know a lot of people love these responsive and smooth high revving BMW motors and I'm not knocking them, but in important areas the LS7 pushrod motor was extremely effective by comparison.

However when it comes to comparing the compact light SS Commodore Smallblock to both the XR6T and new XR8 engines, the Fords have one important advantage, and that's forced induction. Almost a "magic bullet" in my opinion.

I'm extremely impressed with the performance of my overhead cam XR6 Turbo engine, but I have to admit that it's not very compact and light.

[futura]

There nothing wrong with the FG/FG X seating position. But having said that the commodore VF just allows to seat position to be lowered lower than the FGs. When I had the VF company car I felt by lower the seating position I was part of the car. Its only when you drive other model cars you notice this.

[Falcon SXR8]

I have to agree that the seating position in the falcon aint the best. I remember when the ba first come out the first thing I said when I sat in the drivers seat was "man you sit high" You do get used to it but it could be better.

[graphicgoose]

My mate has a VF SSV ute and he jumped in my car the other day and I asked him about the seating position and he said "Yeah, you sit higher...but it's not uncomfortable or anything."

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Remember "billion dollar baby" was an all new sedan, wagon, ute & long wheelbase which were all LHD capable. FG was just the sedan and ute, both retaining the existing rear suspension and much of the chassis/floorpan, so more a re-skinned BF than a truly all new car. This is why you can bolt things like BF seats into an FG. Holden needed an all new car, the existing Opel sourced platforms were pitiful. Ford has been good at evolving their platform over time. I'd liken it to Ford renovating an already decent house and Holden having to knock down & rebuild- it cost more but it was necessary.

Holden's great marketing at play, the VE wasn't a billion dollar baby, the VE models R&D costs PLUS plant & equipment upgrades including new presses etc came to a Billion dollars.
Has anyone really ever been told how much was actual car and how much was plant and equipment upgrades. Plus VE gestation was unusually long as they considered options from sharing existing platforms to finally going it alone on a clean sheet.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

But is the billion dollar baby TWICE as good as the HALF a billion dollar FG?

It doesn't need to be, it just needs to sell twice as much... which it did, and then some.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by b0son

It doesn't need to be, it just needs to sell twice as much... which it did, and then some.

Correction, it needs a ROI twice as much which it hasn't.