GM have about 100 days to go??

[GTP-814]

Originally Posted by bob 351

just heard on the ABC THIS MORNING THAT IF THE U.S GOVERNMENT CANT HELP FINACIALY WITH THE G.M COMPANY THAT THEY WILL CLOSE UP SHOP

& nor should they. Govt cant keep bailing out companies...its not russia

[eng]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...llCars/235929/

[Sprint XR8]

Even if GM are bailed out by the US government the money will only be used to save american jobs, a bailout wont save holden unless the australian government do the same.

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by Buddy 1

Yes that is a move in the right Direction however will that be an Aussie designed Vehicle or will we just assemble another Countries vehicle?

We Used to Design & Build Small, Medium & Large Cars here so why can we not once again?.

Because there isn't the money at the moment. Be great if there was little choice, then it would be viable.

It is expensive enough just to build a car here, let alone design one.

Ford is doing the right thing by having global brands like Focus, Fiesta etc. rather than different models for different countries.

The Focus might not be Australian, but at least it will be Australian built, which is what the Commodore was for 28 years.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Buddy 1

Yes that is a move in the right Direction however will that be an Aussie designed Vehicle or will we just assemble another Countries vehicle?

Hopefully the European designed car. Since day dot it has been one of if not the best small car around. I can't see Australia doing it better. I love this country but I am not patriotically blinded.

We Used to Design & Build Small, Medium & Large Cars here so why can we not once again?

Main reason has been because the People were Buying Vehicles from other Countries in large Numbers well this should stop right now as we need to look at the Big Picture & not just our own Pathetic little Lives :P

By that I mean each of us are really not important in the scheme of the world
(Myself included) however unlike me who can see I am not many think they are the Most Important & that their Lives are more Important than others or a Country as a whole & that is all that Matters to them.

We don't build them here because of the cost. To compete with the Asian, South African and other plants would require massive amounts of $$ to upgrade plants and we need to pay our workers a lot more. Our population can't justify the $$ to build the cars here unless we export. It isn't feasible.

Not to mention the cost of the cars. The quality of materials used by local makers is simply cheap and unattractive, people notice. Getting something decent would cost $$ and in turn cost us more. No thanks.

I simply don't agree with your statement in regards to buying local products. Why should we be forced to buy products from here when they simply don't fit our needs or desires? You can call me pathetic all you like but that simply won't change the fact that local makers are too far behind the times. You're saying we must suffer just because they couldn't plan for the future? They're a business, if they can't get it right then they pay the concequences not us.
I work hard for my $$ and I decide where I want to spend it, not you or anyone else. If I want to buy a Japanese, Euro or even local car then that is my choice.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by burnz

maybe the government should do what other government's do.
if you don't buy an australian car well give you a tax audit.

I'd drop FBT for any car thats not built in this country. So then they're no extra tarrifs on the cars but there is a tax break for people/companies. Hopefully it would keep the money at GMH and Ford so that development can continue and then the locals can concentrate on the private market. Mind you they will prob get complaisant and screw it up.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

Ford is doing the right thing by having global brands like Focus, Fiesta etc. rather than different models for different countries.

The Focus might not be Australian, but at least it will be Australian built, which is what the Commodore was for 28 years.

Ford will NOT be building Focus. It will only assemble what they call "ckd" complete knock downs. No manufacturing jobs, only assembly.

Holdens commodore was a design revision of Omega, however all manufacturing, stamping, components, tooling r&d was done in Australia.
Big difference to what you claim.

[bob 351]

realy think about it guys if holden do go under we wont have anything to beat in the v8 series nor anything to hang shyte on

[Sprint XR8]

Originally Posted by fte50

Ford will NOT be building Focus. It will only assemble what they call "ckd" complete knock downs. No manufacturing jobs, only assembly.

Holdens commodore was a design revision of Omega, however all manufacturing, stamping, components, tooling r&d was done in Australia.
Big difference to what you claim.

Focus panels will be stamped locally, many components will be local.

[JAZSXY]

Originally Posted by XA351COUPE

I heard a story years ago that the Vatican was one of its biggest share holders, if so i think having God on your side might not help with the pile of poo they are now in.

The worlds largest organisation...and also the worlds largest tax free organisation. If this is true you could expect a nice little prop up by the Vatican. Who probably have more money in the bank than a bank. Hey dont they even have their own bank? Maybe its time for a loan?

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Exactly.
Wonder if a GM / Ford merger will be again mentioned in the comming weeks?

Didnt Ford employee's break away from Ford and form GM back in the days? Wouldnt it be ironic that just after 100yrs of independance that they reunite.

Originally Posted by BA Waggn

But because our labour is so dear (expensive), they can not compete with O/S model prices.

Unions have played a part along with governments and government organisations. Safety regulations through the roof to some obsurd levels is one factor. Another is striking for extra $$ here extra $$ there. Dont you see your extra $2hr might be good but what if your boss can only afford that for the next 4 months and then your out of a job? It all adds up over time and the employer can no longer afford to compete with the oversea's goods made at a fraction of the cost. Which mind you the government allow to be imported...because hey we all want to save money and have everything as cheap as possible dont we?

Nothing has helped this year. Everyone rode the wave of the stockmarket going up and tried to get on it and make a killing. But everyone is up the creek without a paddle now the wave has dumped them.

[Gobes32]

I am fed up with hearing how I am OVERPAID.............

I will earn just under 50k this year at an hourly rate of 22.80 an hour.
I have a fork licence and am a crane driver. I am responsible for being able to load a required job with an hours notice. Don't know the dies/job number? You just stopped the press. You stop the press you just stopped Broady's. Every minute Broady's is down costs us 6k....... I have nearly 100 jobs to remember including P&A (old jobs) Each job has on average 4 dies, do the math. These dies weigh up to 40ton and you need to complete on average 12 lifts an hour. I am also able to die set and production run a complete press line and stack the panels and check for quality. AND I AM ONLY 25!!!!!!!!

So next time you tell me I am overpaid prepare to get flamed because I am p1ssed......

I am paying off my house at $300 a week on a take home wage of $750 assuming there's no down days and supporting my partner and 1 yr old son. AND I AM THE ONE THATS OVERPAID........Good lord save me from myself.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by JAZSXY

Unions have played a part along with governments and government organisations. Safety regulations through the roof to some obsurd levels is one factor. Another is striking for extra $$ here extra $$ there. Dont you see your extra $2hr might be good but what if your boss can only afford that for the next 4 months and then your out of a job? It all adds up over time and the employer can no longer afford to compete with the oversea's goods made at a fraction of the cost. Which mind you the government allow to be imported...because hey we all want to save money and have everything as cheap as possible dont we?

.

Mate you really have no idea. No auto union would pursue unviable cash from a major. Its simply not in their interests. When was the last time Ford or GM employees went on strike for $$. As for the safety regs being expensive & obsurd, you obviously havent seen the dangers & threats of a heavy manufacturing environment or you wouldnt be making those statements. If there not up to spec, you are potentially dead.

But you are correct to some degree. Lets not strike, lets keep quite, accept $300pw so our boss makes more & is happy, lets pay $500,000 for a rundown house and top it off with $2.00p/l fuel. FEELING EXCITED

[fte50]

Originally Posted by coupex

Focus panels will be stamped locally, many components will be local.

Does this confirm "stamping" WILL exist beyond 2010?? Any insiders??

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by Gobes32

So what is the answer to what seems to be a MASSIVE problem? Is it higher tarriff's? Less overseas workers? Stricter laws on companies buying aussie made..........

I don't know the answer but I am only 25 years old, I thought it was normal to have a 30sq home and a plasma in every room. (insert sarcasm)

The truth is I live in a 13sq three bedroom home thats 50 years old in a lower priced suburb that I am slowly paying off. I don't have a credit card and I watch a tube tv. My car is a 96 Fairmont with a qtr million k's. It's cheap and it runs. I work for a major Geelong manufacturing plant that's at threat of closing down. So how did I contribute to this crisis? More importantly, how do I fix it? I always try and buy Australian made groceries so I can support the people that hopefully buy the products I make.

Is my generation the greedy one? Or is it the one before me who shipped all our manufacturing overseas in the name of higher profits. Really think about your answer because I am sick of coming on here and being told my generation is spoilt........

Mate, it really comes down to greed at the very top...the game is to print money like there's no tomorrow and in the process devaluing it to what the US dollar has now become.

Then you watch the stock market crash, you buy up anything and everything with the money you print and then prop the market back up again...it's not the first time this has happened.

And we are left holding the bag in all this...it's not fair and it's not right but these people control things.

My belief is the average hard-working person can only take so much of being lied to and taken advantage of...in the end something's gotta give.

[ls f6]

Originally Posted by Buddy 1

Yes from a Shareholders perspective they again want More Dividends (Money) however what about the non Shareholders who as a result get to pay High Interest rates or Bank Fees or indeed Higher Prices for Goods or Services all because the Shareholders want to increase their Wealth.

It should not be 1 group benifets at the Expense of another.

If it weren't for these 'greedy' shareholders stumping up the capital to create and maintain banks, the 'non Shareholder' as you put it wouldn't be paying high interest rates... they wouldn't be paying any interest at all, because banks wouldn't be lending to them.

Which is actually what is happening to a large extent in the USA at present.. banks have become very selective as to who they will lend to as their capital and liquidity is depleted due to non performing loans. It has reached the point where many would-be borrowers, even those with stable income and equity, cannot access finance at all.

This is exactly why Wayne Swan backed off the banks prior to the 1.00% rate cut last month.. he saw sense and realised it is preferable for banks to retain an acceptable profit margin on their lending book, and continue lending to consumers and businesses, rather than have banks cut back on lending because the reward doesn't justify the risk (as per the USA) and watch the economy screech sudden halt.

The same principle applies to any industry... shareholders (or proprietors) of any business invest their hard earned not as a charity, but to make a profit.

If the return wasn't there for them, the product or service would no longer be for sale.

[Buddy 1]

Originally Posted by ls f6

If it weren't for these 'greedy' shareholders stumping up the capital to create and maintain banks, the 'non Shareholder' as you put it wouldn't be paying high interest rates... they wouldn't be paying any interest at all, because banks wouldn't be lending to them.

Which is actually what is happening to a large extent in the USA at present.. banks have become very selective as to who they will lend to as their capital and liquidity is depleted due to non performing loans. It has reached the point where many would-be borrowers, even those with stable income and equity, cannot access finance at all.

This is exactly why Wayne Swan backed off the banks prior to the 1.00% rate cut last month.. he saw sense and realised it is preferable for banks to retain an acceptable profit margin on their lending book, and continue lending to consumers and businesses, rather than have banks cut back on lending because the reward doesn't justify the risk (as per the USA) and watch the economy screech sudden halt.

The same principle applies to any industry... shareholders (or proprietors) of any business invest their hard earned not as a charity, but to make a profit.

If the return wasn't there for them, the product or service would no longer be for sale.

I can see your Point to a Degree.

However a Business can run & Make a Profit without being Floated.

An Acceptable Profit or Return to Shareholders can be say 5% instead of say 8% going to 9% & then to 10% as each year goes by as it is not a Shareholder wanting a Return that is the Problem it is the Shareholder on Investor wanting more & more which has caused the Issues we face now.

In the Old days so to speak people would invest in Fixed Deposit at Banks
& get a stable Return however this was not Enough for them so they chased the Stock Market to gain an Increased Return though often with more risk.

I have no Doubt it is all this Greed or chasing of increased Return by People & Companies which caused the Sub Prime Fiasco to Happen in the First Place.

For Example if our Super Funds invested our Funds here instead of America they would now be in Better shape.

It speculators were not allowed to invest in Oil we would be paying Less at the Pumps as they Helped drive the Crude Price up.

So at the end of the Day People should be Happy with a bit Less of a Return on their Money & not want More & More every Year.

[Buddy 1]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Hopefully the European designed car. Since day dot it has been one of if not the best small car around. I can't see Australia doing it better. I love this country but I am not patriotically blinded.



We don't build them here because of the cost. To compete with the Asian, South African and other plants would require massive amounts of $$ to upgrade plants and we need to pay our workers a lot more. Our population can't justify the $$ to build the cars here unless we export. It isn't feasible.

Not to mention the cost of the cars. The quality of materials used by local makers is simply cheap and unattractive, people notice. Getting something decent would cost $$ and in turn cost us more. No thanks.

I simply don't agree with your statement in regards to buying local products. Why should we be forced to buy products from here when they simply don't fit our needs or desires? You can call me pathetic all you like but that simply won't change the fact that local makers are too far behind the times. You're saying we must suffer just because they couldn't plan for the future? They're a business, if they can't get it right then they pay the concequences not us.
I work hard for my $$ and I decide where I want to spend it, not you or anyone else. If I want to buy a Japanese, Euro or even local car then that is my choice.

I Understand how you feel however that is the Problem as Many or Most People would say the same thing, I WILL BUY WHAT I WANT & IT DOES NOT MATTER WHERE IT COMES FROM etc which is fine however do you not think about the Future of your Country?

You Mention it is not Viable because of cheap labour in other Countries which is again a point of mine, if these vehicles built cheaply in other Countries never happened then you would have no Argument on this point & you & others like you would be Happy with Vehicles made here.

As for all Vehicles made here being of Bad Quality I think this is so wrong as my Humble XR6 is as good as any Japanese vehicle in its price Range & Size & light years ahead of Kia's or Daewoos etc...

And look at the VE Commodore or the FG Falcon Range, good Quality both of them.

We Have been spoilt for choice in this Country & this is what has & will Destroy our Local Industry & do you not Care?

[4Vman]

The minute you "cap" potential earnings of a shareholder or business owner you basically demotivate anyone from getting into business.. or create the need to hide income... then the whole economy will crash and prices sky rocket because competition goes and complacency sets in.
The whole concept of capped earnings makes my blood boil.....

[Buddy 1]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The minute you "cap" potential earnings of a shareholder or business owner you basically demotivate anyone from getting into business.. or create the need to hide income... then the whole economy will crash and prices sky rocket because competition goes and complacency sets in.
The whole concept of capped earnings makes my blood boil.....

I did not say anything about Capped Earnings, I said that people should be happy with a Modest Return from say Fixed deposits or shares in Aussie Companies rather than wanting higher Returns each year which is Greed & Makes my Blood Boil :P This whole Global Economy Stinks!

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Buddy 1

I did not say anything about Capped Earnings, I said that people should be happy with a Modest Return from say Fixed deposits or shares in Aussie Companies rather than wanting higher Returns each year which is Greed & Makes my Blood Boil :P This whole Global Economy Stinks!

Its the same thing as capping earnings.. why should i be happy with mediocrity? why shouldnt people be able to strive for a bit more?
Should everyone at the olympics get a gold medal too? Why should some people work harder only to prop others up who take the easy option because they know they'll be looked after?
I like democracy, because it give me choices and the potential of rewards for hard work or smart thinking..

[Buddy 1]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Its the same thing as capping earnings.. why should i be happy with mediocrity? why shouldnt people be able to strive for a bit more?
Should everyone at the olympics get a gold medal too? Why should some people work harder only to prop others up who take the easy option because they know they'll be looked after?
I like democracy, because it give me choices and the potential of rewards for hard work or smart thinking..

What you are saying is a Lot more Profit at the Expense of others & that is what Stinks here, you sound like a Farengi from that Sci Fi show, A Species with only 1 Goal in Life PROFIT at any Cost.

And I Doubt many People on this Forum who work hard all week for a Min Wage would agree with you that they have Taken the easy way out.

You now Disgust me as you have no Compassion for anybody apart from Yourself!

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Buddy 1

What you are saying is a Lot more Profit at the Expense of others & that is what Stinks here, you sound like a Farengi from that Sci Fi show, A Species with only 1 Goal in Life PROFIT at any Cost.

And I Doubt many People on this Forum who work hard all week for a Min Wage would agree with you that they have Taken the easy way out.

You now Disgust me as you have no Compassion for anybody apart from Yourself!

Im not sure how you come to the conclusion i have no compassion for anyone else!!! How is maximising your earning potential "at the expense of others"?
If i want a bigger better house or car why shouldnt i be able to get it if i work hard and smart enough to earn more than "joe average"?
"Others" have the same choices in life too.. but this is getting way off topic.. There are a few countries left who support your ideals like North Korea... maybe you'd feel happier there than stuck in th rat race competing with all the terrible "greedy" go getter's in our DEMOCRATIC society.?

[Nikked]

So GM-H are silly for spending 1 billion dollers on a commodore it seems

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Buddy 1

I Understand how you feel however that is the Problem as Many or Most People would say the same thing, I WILL BUY WHAT I WANT & IT DOES NOT MATTER WHERE IT COMES FROM etc which is fine however do you not think about the Future of your Country?

The taxpayer is already propping up the local auto industry, why does the taxpayer also need to prop it up by purchasing its product simply because its made here? How about the product competing on its own merits?

[Buddy 1]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Im not sure how you come to the conclusion i have no compassion for anyone else!!! How is maximising your earning potential "at the expense of others"?
If i want a bigger better house or car why shouldnt i be able to get it if i work hard and smart enough to earn more than "joe average"?
"Others" have the same choices in life too.. but this is getting way off topic.. There are a few countries left who support your ideals like North Korea... maybe you'd feel happier there than stuck in th rat race competing with all the terrible "greedy" go getter's in our DEMOCRATIC society.?

You need to pay more Attention to what I Have Written on Previous Posts in this Thread & then Maybe you will get it & be able to answer your Own Questions, seems you read but do not Understand

Yeah I am a Commo Because I think Wealthy people should not Profit at the Expense of Poorer People.

Or that as Australian Citizens we should Support our Country & our Industry.

Maybe you were not even Born here my friend.

[Buddy 1]

Originally Posted by b0son

The taxpayer is already propping up the local auto industry, why does the taxpayer also need to prop it up by purchasing its product simply because its made here? How about the product competing on its own merits?

Yeah lets just allow our Local Industry to fail completely & import everything from Asia.

And Our Product is as good in general just that many are not smart enough to figure it out.

Sometimes we have no Viable choice to buy Australian made however in many cases we do & we should if we are True Aussies who care about Our Country & not just Ourselves.

[xplode1]

at the end of the day businesses are trying to make money if there smart enough to try and make more then a guy stuck earning next to nothing thats not there fault.
no body starts at the top they all would have started with nothing it just means they made smarter decisions then a guy stuck on a factory floor there whole life.

[Bobman]

Originally Posted by Buddy 1

You Mention it is not Viable because of cheap labour in other Countries which is again a point of mine, if these vehicles built cheaply in other Countries never happened then you would have no Argument on this point & you & others like you would be Happy with Vehicles made here.

Blame all the greedy companies here who off-shore all their work.

It's not just the car industry, but many industries are choosing to move abroad, which is really sad.

I don't like eating fish from say Thailand or vegies from Malaysia when we have plenty of better quality stuff here. But there's always those people who only care about the price, even if it's worse for them.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by xplode1

*Racist crap deleted*

You'll last long here.

I can see this ending in tears.....

[Sourbastard]

Originally Posted by xplode1

at the end of the day businesses are trying to make money if there smart enough to try and make more then a guy stuck earning next to nothing thats not there fault.
no body starts at the top they all would have started with nothing it just means they made smarter decisions then a guy stuck on a factory floor there whole life.

you have two posts, if you want a third, I suggest you keep your racist crap to yourself.