Dowling reckons End of road for Falcon and Commodore in 2016

[GTP534]

He ought to go and jump off a mountain.

He's writing as though it is fact that both Holden and Ford will stop local manufacturing. The thing people remember is the "End of the Line" tag.

If he made similar statements regarding the future of the operations of other large companies I'm sure there'd be a solicitor's letter rolling up to the door.

I don't read this twit anymore; I don't buy the paper he writes for, I don't visit the website his articles appear on either.

[jpblue1000]

Im pretty sure that FORD as a company know the laws and markets better than us on the keyboards of the internet. If a journalist was engaged in Libel and Defamation and that their impact was to FORD's detriment they would have their lawyers all over the journalist.
The fact Mr Dowling and many others report on these possible events, yet the companies appear to do nothing is, that they believe A- there is truth to the story so Libel and Defamation is not applicable or B- the words of this journalist and others do their business no harm.
I personally believe FORD as a global entity doesn't care about a low volume model on the other side of the world, loss of this car will probably save them money. therefore I have no doubt the Falcon as we know it (australian designed built and RWD) days are limited. If the Business that is FORD know this as many journalists, who have better industry contacts than us Keyboard warriors, have reported then there must be some truth to it.
Don't shoot the messenger just because you don't like the message.
JP

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

......I personally believe FORD as a global entity doesn't care about a low volume model on the other side of the world, loss of this car will probably save them money. therefore I have no doubt the Falcon as we know it (australian designed built and RWD) days are limited.......

Thats the point! The falcon IS selling well, unfortunatly not enough considering its an orphan. The doom and gloom in the media has been all about a lack of sales, when it should be about a lack of exports!

There are many car companies dying to have falcon sales numbers, who sell a quarter of Falcon sale, but yet no doom and gloom there, why? Cause global products is the only way a car will survive.

Perhaps the media should have been more proactive towards getting the useless and over inflated Aussie Dollar down to an export possible position instead of "dead dinosour" stories.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by Thunder

Thats the point! The falcon IS selling well, unfortunatly not enough considering its an orphan. The doom and gloom in the media has been all about a lack of sales, when it should be about a lack of exports!

The falcon sells 1200-1300 units per month, lets say optimistically 30000 including territory a year. Ford sells 6.2475 million units a year globally. If my maths is correct thats 0.48%. Only one half of one percent of the companies production is the falcon and territory. Its not selling well for Ford

Originally Posted by Thunder

There are many car companies dying to have falcon sales numbers, who sell a quarter of Falcon sale, but yet no doom and gloom there, why? Cause global products is the only way a car will survive.

at the same time Shangdong Kaima built over 65000 units. Who are they? the 50th largest car maker in the world.

The Falcon is such an 'orphan' that produces such an insignificant sales, possibly at a loss or close its no doubt these stories exist and hang around.
I think what we build here in Australia are good cars, not great, that suit our market, we like them and want them sort off but, with such small numbers in an economically tough global world its amazing our local production has lasted this long.

JP

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Thunder

Thats the point! The falcon IS selling well, unfortunatly not enough considering its an orphan. The doom and gloom in the media has been all about a lack of sales, when it should be about a lack of exports!

There are many car companies dying to have falcon sales numbers, who sell a quarter of Falcon sale, but yet no doom and gloom there, why? Cause global products is the only way a car will survive.

Perhaps the media should have been more proactive towards getting the useless and over inflated Aussie Dollar down to an export possible position instead of "dead dinosour" stories.

The Falcon is not selling to a point which is sustainable for the company long term... Especially not with the cost of labor in Australia.

I wouldn't buy another Falcon.... simply because as far as cars go there are better cars around for similar / less money. After owning an SUV it is hard to get used to a sedan again, if it was not for the performance alone I seriously would not have a Falcon anymore.

I would buy another Territory again in a heartbeat, simply because its so much easier to live with as a daily commute then the Falcon (high seating position, plenty of clearance etc etc). I think Ford should have put more effort into SZ Territory and possibly less emphasis into Falcon.... We need a Territory XR version for a start that is desirable for the younger people to own. A performance model could potentially take off if it had the right motor, e.g. 3.0 Litre twin turbo diesel, but they would have to price it well for it to work, and of course differentiate it from Titanium (something they failed to do correctly with F6X).

So I guess what I am saying is I think Ford Australia's future lies more heavily on the Territory then it does Falcon...

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

The falcon sells 1200-1300 units per month, lets say optimistically 30000 including territory a year. Ford sells 6.2475 million units a year globally. If my maths is correct thats 0.48%. Only one half of one percent of the companies production is the falcon and Territory......

JP

It is nice of you to agree with me and yet still agrue, JD or JP ? Lol

If you want maths, then let us look at it this way-

Falcon Platform sales: 30,000 out of 1,000,000 sales in australia = 3% of the market share. On the other hand, USA's 2012 total annual vehicle sales was approx 14.5 million. Tell me, what percentage of that were sales from the Mustang Platform? 3.0%....2.0%.....1.0%......or less? If its is only about sustainability in a region, then why is Ford US pushing for a global Mustang and a RHD Mustang?

The future of passanger vehicle has a parallel path with global platforms.

How many Mercedes Benz platforms/models sold sold more than 30,000 units in 2012 in Australia? Are MB in jeopardy of loosing models? No. My point is, NO amount of sales will make the Falcon Platform sustainable long term, thus the media should focus its doom and gloom on the CAUSE and not the EFFECT!

I am a business owner, in retail and manufacturing, and have been closely monitoring Australian manufacturing. All of Australias remaining manufacturing is at risk for the same reason.

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

... I would buy another Territory again in a heartbeat, simply because its so much easier to live with as a daily commute then the Falcon (high seating position, plenty of clearance etc etc). I think Ford should have put more effort into SZ Territory and possibly less emphasis into Falcon.... We need a Territory XR version for a start that is desirable for the younger people to own. A performance model could potentially take off if it had the right motor, e.g. 3.0 Litre twin turbo diesel, but they would have to price it well for it to work, and of course differentiate it from Titanium (something they failed to do correctly with F6X).

So I guess what I am saying is I think Ford Australia's future lies more heavily on the Territory then it does Falcon...

I agree with you ideas on Territory models, i would buy in a heartbeat a Territory XR6 Turbo!

But if Falcon is gone, how much more Aussie SUV's need to sell for Broadmedows to remain sustainable?

And another though: If by magic, Ford product development and marketing helped DOUBLE current sales to say 60,000 units.....would that be enough to save the falcon........and silence the likes of JD?

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by Thunder

It is nice of you to agree with me and yet still agrue, JD or JP ? Lol

Not sure we are arguing but discussing, rationally and calmly

Originally Posted by Thunder

If you want maths, then let us look at it this way-

Falcon Platform sales: 30,000 out of 1,000,000 sales in australia = 3% of the market share. On the other hand, USA's 2012 total annual vehicle sales was approx 14.5 million. Tell me, what percentage of that were sales from the Mustang Platform? 3.0%....2.0%.....1.0%......or less? If its is only about sustainability in a region, then why is Ford US pushing for a global Mustang and a RHD Mustang?

even at 1% thats 145000 units over 4 times the Australian production, combine that with other derivatives the economies of scale allow it in their huge market...

Originally Posted by Thunder

The future of passanger vehicle has a parallel path with global platforms.... My point is, NO amount of sales will make the Falcon Platform sustainable long term, thus the media should focus its doom and gloom on the CAUSE and not the EFFECT!

Maybe this is where we are vehemently Agreeing. But is it likely the future of falcon is based on a RWD 'sportscar' platform or a large FWD sedan chassis? the FWD's are already engineered to carry 5 people, the mustang isnt (though Im guessing there isnt a 4 door sedan version)

JP

[Dr Smith]

What if Falcon and Territory join co-development/shared componentry with similar US cars and Ford Australia does the RHD manufacturing and exporting for these vehicles?

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

.......even at 1% thats 145000 units over 4 times the australian production, combine that with other derivatives the economies of scale allow it in their huge market...
Jp

BINGO. Economies of scale (or lack thereof) not lack of local sales.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Thunder

Perhaps the media should have been more proactive towards getting the useless and over inflated Aussie Dollar down to an export possible position instead of "dead dinosour" stories.

The high Aussie dollar and the devastating effect it is having on our exporters, large and small is the news story of this decade, but for reasons known only to the media they are determined to simply ignore it.

Maybe their readers wont accept reading that all the cheap stuff from China we buy in electronics and tools etc is being paid for in the loss of Australian jobs and just as importantly in the loss of a generation of Australian entrepreneurs who have given up trying to create opportunities and jobs in this country.

Then again maybe they fear upsetting the mining companies. That sector is not afraid to flex some PR muscle when it suits them and they own or have influence over pretty much everything in this country at the moment.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

What if Falcon and Territory join co-development/shared componentry with similar US cars and Ford Australia does the RHD manufacturing and exporting for these vehicles?

I suspect if there is any future for Ford Aust manufacturing, that is exactly where it will be from. Wouldn't surprise me to see a Mustang roll down the line for that reason. Another niche for Ford Aust would be making small volume low cost (relatively) models for Ford US. Problem with that latter plan is the Australian Dollar is killing it at the moment, just like it is for the Commodore.

The government has to step in to knock our dollar down by twenty cents or so to the USD. Problem is the news stories will be full of how people can't afford cheap crap from China anymore. They wont talk about the job and export opportunities created because there is no tv ratings in that.

[jpd80]

If you keep fronting with the sale ol' same ol' year after year, the market will slowly move on and leave you stranded.

For Falcon to survive, it's about doing the things that VF Commodore can't, like Ecoboost 2.0 and yes, a V6 diesel.
From what's being said internally at Ford, the 2014 Falcon is a very attractive vehicle, so back that up with an engine line up
that lets the market know that Falcon looks to the future and changing needs of buyers without desperately clinging to the past.
That's the message the 2014 Falcon should bring.

[FPV GTHO]

Will they be crash testing the 2014 car?

[Bossxr8]

Of course.

[buggerlugs]

http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au...alian/1744796/

[Bobman]

Originally Posted by jpd80

that lets the market know that Falcon looks to the future and changing needs of buyers without desperately clinging to the past.

I don't know about you, but a V6 engine is nowhere near as good as an I6. Ford and BMW are not clinging desperately to the past by keeping these engines, so unsure what you're trying to say here...

People aren't going to come in droves because the Falcon has a V6 diesel. That's just ridiculous.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Bobman

I don't know about you, but a V6 engine is nowhere near as good as an I6. Ford and BMW are not clinging desperately to the past by keeping these engines, so unsure what you're trying to say here...

People aren't going to come in droves because the Falcon has a V6 diesel. That's just ridiculous.

Well I would like to hear your reasoning why, if the I6 is such a drawcard, does the V6 Commodore, V6 Aurion, and basically almost every other V6 outsell the I6 Falcon?

[ryeman]

For a given length. The I6 results in poor use of space, pinching cabin space.
Good thing the offset crash testing doesn't overlap the crankshaft. That European standard suited the then I6 Merc and BMW s, thought 40% was a bit 'convenient'.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by flappist

Well I would like to hear your reasoning why, if the I6 is such a drawcard, does the V6 Commodore, V6 Aurion, and basically almost every other V6 outsell the I6 Falcon?

Come agian? There is only one 6 cylinder out selling Falcon & that is Commodore. Every other V6 sold in Australia, that is in a seden is outsold by Falcon!!

[Bobman]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Come agian? There is only one 6 cylinder out selling Falcon & that is Commodore. Every other V6 sold in Australia, that is in a seden is outsold by Falcon!!

Exactly and it has nothing to do with the engine either. The engine isn't what lets the sales down. It's the pathetic dealerships and marketing team.

[Ford17]

Perhaps once our 'homegrown' doom & gloom obsessed journalists have successfully seen off the local car industry which they seem to despise; they can be replaced by better-skilled journalists with superior knowledge of the vehicles to which we will be left to choose from.

Why use a local 'motor-noter' when you could alternatively have a journalist from, say AutoCar, provide a better researched article?

[Bobman]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business...-1226573139742

HOLDEN is poised to wow new car buyers with world-class technology to get them to consider a Commodore one last time.

The new Commodore - due to be unveiled in Melbourne on Sunday ahead of its showroom debut in June, before bowing out in late 2016 - will be able to park itself, and warn the driver of an impending crash in bumper-to-bumper traffic.

The new Commodore will also get a heads up display that reflects car speed and key information in the windscreen in driver's line of sight, similar to top end BMWs.

Another Dowling article though.

[Chopped]

This is a sad looking graph.



I did see that they are saying the VF will be the last Australian Made Commodore. This leaves the door open for the nameplate to stay but it will become an import (most likely from the US / Chev SS)...maybe ?!

[EFFalcon]

lol... that graph just shows that Ford never recovered from the AU.

blame the AU!

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by EFFalcon

lol... that graph just shows that Ford never recovered from the AU.

blame the AU!

lol your comment just shows that you're incapable of adding anything useful to this thread! lol

75,000 sales in 2003 signalled a fairly decent recovery. Post 2003 the large car segment's decline began in earnest. Falcon and Commodore would never equal their '03 totals again.

[Bobman]

The BA recovered sales, but people fail to understand how everyone's feeling the grip at the moment, since the mid-2000s.

Lots of small businesses closing down and no-one (except greedy fat cats) have "spare" money like they used to.

[Road_Warrior]

The new car market is poles apart from the heady days of the Falcadore dominance. This is underscored by the fact that the monthly chart-topper in the new car sales "race" sells in volumes that is about one third of the chart topper years ago. Which incidentally was either the Falcon or Commodore.

[T4ME]

So what was it about the BA that brought Ford back to life so to speak?

[Kable72]

It looked better. Wasn't an "in the eye of the beholder" car anymore. The new XR6T. A sexy GT and a base model that looked great.