Officially upset at Ford Australia - but we're now friends again

[Thunder]

Can anyone here confirm (with actual experience/factual data as uposed to the regular anecdotal evidence) if there is any difference in handling between the current diesel AWD and RWD? Apart from the obvious benefit of all four wheels, i mean, does the extra weight in AWD create less handling ability on high speed corners, steep downhill corners etc? Or is the AWD all round better in handling and the RWD just more fun?

Also, any noticable difference between the AWD diesel and RWD deisel in regards to power on take offs (0-100) etc?

Thank you.

[FalconXV]

Originally Posted by Thunder

Can anyone here confirm (with actual experience/factual data as uposed to the regular anecdotal evidence) if there is any difference in handling between the current diesel AWD and RWD? Apart from the obvious benefit of all four wheels, i mean, does the extra weight in AWD create less handling ability on high speed corners, steep downhill corners etc? Or is the AWD all round better in handling and the RWD just more fun?

Also, any noticable difference between the AWD diesel and RWD deisel in regards to power on take offs (0-100) etc?

Thank you.

I've driven RWD diesel and petrol, aswell as AWD diesel. No perceptible difference between the first two, In fact with half the length of the i6, it might have felt a tad nimbler, but theres nothing in it. Pretty sure both engines weight about the same.
EPS system is such a peach, makes parking a cynch and doesn't load up when you wind it.

[greenfoam]

Thunder, update this thread with mini reviews of all the SUVs you drive when you get out testing them, it will be interesting reading.

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by greenfoam

Thunder, update this thread with mini reviews of all the SUVs you drive when you get out testing them, it will be interesting reading.

I like this guy!

Will do, i have done a massive amount of personal "reviews" on vehicles i was interested in. BTW, i have made up my mind and chosen the vehicle.........will give you my reviews first (for a good laugh) before i tell you the winner......

[mik]

it appears the AWD has a slightly numerically higher final drive ratio to keep it as nippy with it`s extra driveline mass and friction, running a 3.46 vs 3.23.
look forward to your reviews Thunder.

[Thunder]

Search for an SUV

Please Note: I will offend almost half of you with my review, take it as tongue-in-cheek humour, will give you an insight into the type of clown I am.

The Aim: To find a suitable replacement for my current (Lemon) Jeep Grand Cherokee by comparing the pros & cons of suitable competitors for my requirements.

The Requirements:
Size: Medium to large, ie CRV/RAV4 size to Grand Cherokee/Territory size. No Prado/Pajero size.
Power: Comparable with current (174kw & 550mn) but flexible on this.
Features: Comparable with gizmos I am a customised to, willing to sacrifice.
Cost: Selling price not so much the issue, but value for money, resale, parts, service and insurance is.
Golden Rule: No expensive euro-parts!

The Buyer: Me, crazy fool who wants an SUV, not married, no kids, likes grunt, fun, roomy vehicle, averages 35,000km per year, half mix of mostly long freeways and potholed roads that are regularly inundated with water. Due to current property, AWD is a must and reasonable ground clearance (no need for Landcruiser) but 140 to 190mm.

In The Beginning:
Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo Diesel fitted with Genuine Jeep (high end USA factory spec) head unit featuring Sat Nav, hard drive audio, Blue Tooth, Voice activated everything, touch screen, reverse camera. Genuine Jeep full leather interior. Genuine Jeep 20 inch wheels with 265 tyres.

What I like about it: GRUNT, the diesel is hugely underrated, unlike most diesels that get breathless after the first 2 to 3000 rpm, this thing pulls all the way to redline, with constant pull, no flat spots, no hesitation……..and best of all sounds grunty and very unlike a diesel. When it works (half the time) the head unit and all its features. Keyless entry (when it works,) keyless start (when it works), High powered headlights, auto on everything.

What I don’t like about it: Build quality: Assembled like a Corgi Car. Handles like a 1950’s caravan, tilts left to right like a boat (on straight roads!!), soft, slushy round bends, the term “NVH” clearly not known by Jeep. Seats rubbish, unsupportive, flat (I slide into the foot well on braking and in between console on corners), spongy brakes, rattles, squeaks. Driveline cannot handle torque, skips gears, and engages traction control on freeways when flooring it!!!!

Everyone tells me “just buy the Territory” but no, I will find a better alternative.

1st Test: Honda CRV

As a previous owner of many Hondas, it was a no-brainer for me to look at it. My best car ever was a Honda, never broke down, never failed, ran superb, was a fun car to drive, funky looking, very cool, always surprised me and put a smile on my face everyday. My, my how times have changed at the Honda Motor Co.

CRV=Boring. Interior must have been designed by an ex-Toyota designer, boring seats, boring dash………fall asleep style! Fit and finish great…..because there are no fancy angles/attractive eye catching items. Generally speaking, the first thing that “hooks” me on all cars is opening the door; I call it the Euro Door Test. Handle should feel firm and door well weighted, look & feel tough, feeling of a European car. Honestly, if you closed your eyes, you would think the CRV was a plastic toy car……the type you push your kids around the shopping centre with. Seemed like the design brief was “cheap & cheerful”.

Test drive? Did not bother, too embarrassed. Verdict FAIL for me………….so I think it will be a good seller for Honda of course.

2nd Test: Toyota Klugger. Why, because all my friends own Toyotas and they say they are they are great.

Salesman “Hi Sir, how can we help you?”
Me “looking for a replacement for that” me pointing to the Jeep.
Salesman “Klugger then…it’s just as big, if not bigger.”
“Does it have a diesel?”
“No, just petrol V6”
“But I assume it’s economical , that’s why you don’t have a diesel right?
“Ummmmm…..no, won’t compare to your Jeep……, but let me show you one”

Euro Door Test result: Hmmmm, makes the CRV feel more European now! Lol. I guess the most solid vehicle in the Toyota range is………………..the Corolla!
Interior: I knew I was right….. Honda DID hire and ex-Toyota designer.
Me “Bit boring don’t you think?” to the salesman.

Dealer: “let me be honest, we are Toyota, think of us as manufacturers of washing machines and fridges. These are things everyone buys, and there is no need to get excited by them. When was the last time someone got excited by the design and operation of whitegoods? Our designs won’t offend anyone.” So true.

Me “but how is this supposed to compete with the Territory?”
Dealer “it’s a Toyota!”

Test Drive: Like Honda, didn’t bother, like I was sitting inside a whale. FAIL

PS: mental note to self; need new friends with taste.

3rd Test: Nissan Murano.

Well, I have gone on record for saying looks aren’t an issue…..and clearly looks aren’t an issue for Nissan either. The Murano has size, comfort, power……………..and CVT. Say no more INSTANT FAIL.

4th Test: Kia Sorento. I’m not racist, I hate everyone equally.

Nice, not bad in looks, better put together than expected, materials feel better than expected, heaps of features. Very nice. Koreans now know what they are doing, and methinks local manufacturers need to worry.

Dealer “Kia is a sister car to Hyundai…..thus this shares the platform on the Santa Fe… just cheaper”
Me “well if it’s cheaper, sounds like I should pay more and get the big sister than the little sister”

Result: FAIL


5th test: Hyundai Santa Fe

Wow, just wow. It looks good, jam packed with everything you want, very well put together, comfortable. On paper, diesel has power & torque comparable with the Territory, but with two less cylinders! I loved sitting in it. I think Hyundai are the new “old” Honda.

Dealer “you know, Hyundai benchmarked the ride and handling on the X5”
Me “the X5, really?”
Dealer “well kind of, you see our biggest competitor is the Territory, and Ford benchmarked theirs on the X5, so ours had to be as good also”
Me “so you mean you benchmarked it against the Territory then?”
Dealer” umm…….yeh”

Result: Fail……..but still very impressed. The best car so far by far!

Dealer “have you driven the Territory?”
Hmmmmmmmm

So, now over running around town, let my fingers do the walking (typing) and here are some more reviews ( mean failures).

Nissan Pathfinder: It’s a truck.
Mitsubishi Outlander: It wants to be a Pathfinder.
Subaru Forrester: Another CVT, like a child trying to match it with adults……The Outback is better.
Subaru Outback: The Outback is CRAP.
Toyota FJ Cruiser: Not looking for a Mr Whippy franchise.
Jeep SRT8: a) What were they thinking? Drivetrain can’t handle the diesel, how will it handle more power
b) What was I thinking?
Mazda CX5: An overweight Mazda 3.
Mazda CX9: An overweight Mazda 6.
Nissan Xtrail: Its design sheet was written in Aramaic.
Holden Captiva: It’s a Daewoo.
Holden Captiva 7: It’s a Daewoo with extra seats.

So where does that leave me…………

Hello Ford Dealership.

Salesman “what are you looking for Sir?”
Me “a Territory AWD, but not the crap one”
Him “ so you want the Titanium”
Me “yes, but not the crap one”
Him “you don’t like diesels I’m guessing?”
Me “I like grunt”
Him “shall we test drive one?”
Me “not if I fall asleep!”
Him “oh no Sir, no chance, this aint a Klugger”

First drive: Hmmmmmmm. Quiet. Very, very quite, almost like the car was insulated with concrete. Nice.
Diesel, no huge grunt, but keeps up with traffic and some. Very smooth delivery……absurdly, like an electric engine…….just quieter! Wow.

Salesman “Why are you driving like a lunatic? This twisty road aint a race track”
Me “ I want to make sure it handles well”
Him “consider it a Falcon……….and not made by Jeep!”

Complaints:
Rear passengers have less leg room, but I am guessing 3rd row seats the culprit, not a huge issue.
Rims, 7.5 inch width, WTF? 235’s are the widest possible, want wider, falcons are wider!

On the road: Not surprisingly ….Brilliant 10/10
Inside cabin: Good 8/10…..only missing features, but makes up for it in fantastic Euro quality, and after seing so many cars, yes i mean it.

Oh and as for the Euro Door Test: 10/10.

Overall……………..the hardest decision is picking the colour, so I let the sales guy pick it.

[greenfoam]

So which Territory, diesel 2wd?. I knew it would come down to the Kia / Hyundai or Territory

[mik]

Good write up mate.

[LightningStrike]

Great stuff, can we now change the title of the thread to "seriously disappointed with every other manufacturers efforts, go the Territory!"

Lol, enjoyable writeup with a good result. What colour did they get you??

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by greenfoam

So which Territory, diesel 2wd?. I knew it would come down to the Kia / Hyundai or Territory

Nah, need to have AWD

[Thunder]

Doubled post

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by LightningStrike

Great stuff, can we now change the title of the thread to "seriously disappointed with every other manufacturers efforts, go the Territory!"

Lol, enjoyable writeup with a good result. What colour did they get you??

No. Still upset at ford, because the dont have the kahones to build a Territory with grunt! This purchase will be a temporary measure till i find an alternative.............if one exists!

Colour chosen was light poo brown, also known as Havana.

[tweeked]

So do we have a chance at the Deisel being added to SCT's capabilities?

[Thunder]

Another quick question: Does the Territory have the ZF 6 speed or the Ford "copy" 6 speed?

[mcnews]

I believe ours has the ZF, but it is 2007 AWD.

[dallasv8]

do they do a manual in the territorys?

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Thunder

Another quick question: Does the Territory have the ZF 6 speed or the Ford "copy" 6 speed?

It's the Ford copy. The 6R80.

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

It's the Ford copy. The 6R80.

For both the AWD and RWD? Damn, thought it was the ZF. Doh

[Thunder]

Hmmmm. Methinks the "lag" everone refers to is actualy gear change hesitation and not the turbo. Just noticed it. The ZF would have been better.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Thunder

For both the AWD and RWD? Damn, thought it was the ZF. Doh

All diesel Territories. It is essentially a license-built copy of the ZF 6HP26 so I can't imagine there being a substantial difference between the two.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Thunder

Hmmmm. Methinks the "lag" everone refers to is actualy gear change hesitation and not the turbo. Just noticed it. The ZF would have been better.

It wont be the fact that auto is not a ZF.

[Peuty]

Disco 4?

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by vztrt

It wont be the fact that auto is not a ZF.

Hmmm. Clearly I aint a good Sherlock Holmes.

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by Peuty

Disco 4?

I dont wear cardigans, nor do i play canasta! Lol

Actualy liked the Evoke, but no landrover/rangerover dealers in my town, thats why i only looked at brands that had service centre here.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by Thunder

but no landrover/rangerover dealers in my town, thats why i only looked at brands that had service centre here.

And you would need them too

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

And you would need them too

My mate is a Pom............and HE told me not to buy one! Ha

[atec77]

Originally Posted by mcnews

I hear your pain. unfortunately if he went sh terri turbo he has BA engine. Latest Territory with FG xr6t donk would be great, and yes there is that much difference in the fg engine in regards to drive/economy/power/torque everything is miles better. New terri deserves fg turbo engine. i would buy one. in every other way apart from engine, dynamically the terri miles ahead of the competition, including 100k+ euros. the engines are their major failing.

You think the ford motor is better than some of the EU motors ?

perhaps you need to really open your eyes ?

[Thunder]

Originally Posted by atec77

You think the ford motor is better than some of the EU motors ?

perhaps you need to really open your eyes ?

You should re-read his post.........think someone else needs their eyes open! Lol

[mik]

Originally Posted by atec77

You think the ford motor is better than some of the EU motors ?

perhaps you need to really open your eyes ?

53 years of development aussie inline 6 , you think euro`s are so much better???

[JG34JA]

Great write up Thunder, lots of humour and character. Good choice (found the new diesel as you described it) & hope it goes well for you.