VF: SV6 $35,990. Calais $39,990. SS $41,990.

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The dilemma Ford faces is to juggle discounting with sales, it's no good throwing away $16,000
on each G6ET sale if the discounted price doesn't significantly lift sales to cover the lost profit.

Could it be Ford HAVE to do this to simply maintain sales and keep the assembly lines rolling though?

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Kieron

Could it be Ford HAVE to do this to simply maintain sales and keep the assembly lines rolling though?

Don't forget they've got the Territory which is being built on a 1:1 basis with the Falcon and they are selling every one they build. I'd say they make quite a tidy profit on each Terri they sell.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Kieron

Could it be Ford HAVE to do this to simply maintain sales and keep the assembly lines rolling though?

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Don't forget they've got the Territory which is being built on a 1:1 basis with the Falcon and they are selling every one they build. I'd say they make quite a tidy profit on each Terri they sell.

I'm curious about the Holden move on pricing and while the commentators appear to be focusing
on the value rpoducts in the sub $40K brackets, I see the real battle here is to encourage buyers
into that more lucrative $40K to $50K corridor which seems to have eluded Ford and Holden for years.

Yes I can see the arguments for making G6ET pricing more aggressive in the market place
but what about Ford adding G6's perimeter alarm and reversing camera options to all FGIIs
as a get through until the 2014 car, there are a lot of things Ford can do with optional equipment
until the new car arrives and it could be a great way to herald a change in models in the next evolution.

* Let's not forget that Ecoboost Falcon already has electronic Power steering and that
adding Park Assist, perimiter alarms, rear TV camera and even Sync Voice control may not
be that far out of reach for Ford..

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by jpd80

* Let's not forget that Ecoboost Falcon already has electronic Power steering and that
adding Park Assist, perimiter alarms, rear TV camera and even Sync Voice control may not
be that far out of reach for Ford..

You mean EPAS? There's no EPAS in the Falcon yet.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I think tech is important, but not as much as people make out. They very outdated tech in the Mazda 3 (compared to other newer small cars) is not hurting Mazda 3.

I think people over look the exterior look of a car more then they should on this forum. The new commodore sill looks dated & still has old school lines for a car, & I think it will continue to struggle (after a bit of a honey moon period). Falcon too is dated looking in its lines. From the bits & pieces of information I can get about the 2014 Falcon, this new design might just be the best thing for large cars in a long time. And not because of tech, but because of the actual look & design of the exterior!! Most people put together a short list of cars based first & foremost on exterior looks, the rest come later.

What tech is the Mazda 3 missing? Or what tech makes it outdated?

[Rodge]

jpd80 - This is my thinking around the $44,990 plus on-roads for a G6ET.
I think Ford's challange is to get people behind the wheel test driving one.
What about Ford doing a direct mail campaign to all Holden owners with vehicles 8 years or younger pushing its ace weapon over the Holden (the performance of the G6ET)...something like a campaign marketed as"feel the difference". Offer qualifying customers a $50 voucher for their time test driving the vehicle and go into the draw to win a first class trip for 2 to Hawai with 7 nights five star accomodation e.t.c.

I think very few would turn up just to collect the $50, (surely people have better things to do with their time if they're completly uninterested), but those somewhat curious would experience power, steering and gearbox response like they'd never experienced before and I suspect the sales conversion rate would be very good if the car was priced more sharply.
Lots of the manufacturing costs are fixed and if they can lift volumes by this sort of campaign the cost for each car comes down.

How much more does it cost to produce a G6ET over a G6E ? This is the question that Ford need to ask themselves, surely not more than $3,000 more for a turbo and intercooler at mass manufacturing rates.

Ford need to exploit their strengths and start thinking outside the square IMO. If they do what they've always done the death by 1000 cuts will inevitably continue.

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Don't forget they've got the Territory which is being built on a 1:1 basis with the Falcon and they are selling every one they build. I'd say they make quite a tidy profit on each Terri they sell.

True, but it may well be that the combined production of both variants is required to keep the assembly lines rolling. There is a fixed cost of 'turning the lights on' that has to be covered regardless of what's produced, if selling the FG at cost allows them to continue producing the Terri then it may be what has to be done.

A bit like petrol stations in the past where the fuel profit was only a few cpl which covered costs and the real profit was in the workshop.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by naddis01

What tech is the Mazda 3 missing? Or what tech makes it outdated?

Everyone keeps saying look in a Focus, look in a Mondeo, and look in a 300C as a bench mark for Tech. Most of this stuff is missing the both a Mazda & Falcon!!

Just to name a few
Touch screen
Blind spot alarm
Active brake assist
Active key (or what ever it is called when you walk up to the car & it unlocks)
Auto parking


As I've said before & I'll say again. The Mazda 3 does not have much more than a Falcon has. So if Falcon is out dated tech wise, so too is the Mazda 3

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

You mean EPAS? There's no EPAS in the Falcon yet.

That's right (I was fishing for that response....)

Ford was supposed to put EPAS in Ecoboost Falcon but didn't.

FWIW, I think Ford should start combining a few models and re align with Holden:

- Combine XT and G6 to form "Ambiente" to combat Evoke
- Rename G6E and G6ET as "Titanium" to combat Calais
- Add a "Titanium Plus" to combat Calais V
- XR Continues unchanged.

[FalconXV]

Originally Posted by jpd80

That's right (I was fishing for that response....)

Ford was supposed to put EPAS in Ecoboost Falcon but didn't.

FWIW, I think Ford should start combining a few models and re align with Holden:

- Combine XT and G6 to form "Ambiente" to combat Evoke
- Rename G6E and G6ET as "Titanium" to combat Calais
- Add a "Titanium Plus" to combat Calais V
- XR Continues unchanged.

Ambiente' sounds pretentious like Forte, but I guess it would allign it with their Euro imports. Matching Evoke is not good enough though. That complacency is why the FG is floundering now.
I agree with Titanium, but then they have to decide if 'Ford Falcon Titanium' has enough premium cachet, coz 'Ford Titanium' sure doesn't. Maybe G6 Titanium and Titanium X.


Once again I emphasize how much a dedicated sports Ecoboost model would reinvigorate the brand. Manual is a must; here is an opportunity to add new young customers to the Falcon, don't mess it up- Make Toyota 86 an engineering stretch goal (just attributes like tyre slip etc) and make it affordable- I can't see anything else jump starting the brand like this, and keeping the range similar to how it is now is suicide.

[eb2fairmont]

Falcon
XR 6/8
Fairmont
Fairmont Titanium

Everything bar xr available with 4/6 nco. Titanium standard with T6

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by Rodge

jpd80 - This is my thinking around the $44,990 plus on-roads for a G6ET.
I think Ford's challange is to get people behind the wheel test driving one.
What about Ford doing a direct mail campaign to all Holden owners with vehicles 8 years or younger pushing its ace weapon over the Holden (the performance of the G6ET)...something like a campaign marketed as"feel the difference". Offer qualifying customers a $50 voucher for their time test driving the vehicle and go into the draw to win a first class trip for 2 to Hawai with 7 nights five star accomodation e.t.c.

I think very few would turn up just to collect the $50, (surely people have better things to do with their time if they're completly uninterested), but those somewhat curious would experience power, steering and gearbox response like they'd never experienced before and I suspect the sales conversion rate would be very good if the car was priced more sharply.
Lots of the manufacturing costs are fixed and if they can lift volumes by this sort of campaign the cost for each car comes down.

How much more does it cost to produce a G6ET over a G6E ? This is the question that Ford need to ask themselves, surely not more than $3,000 more for a turbo and intercooler at mass manufacturing rates.

Ford need to exploit their strengths and start thinking outside the square IMO. If they do what they've always done the death by 1000 cuts will inevitably continue.

Rodge, you've written what i've thought about for a few days. Very similar idea. I was trying to come up with a tagline. A promo offering $50 to do a test drive (which is enough to gain interest) but without excessive uptake of those unlikely to be interested. With a chance of a luxury holiday or something would be a nice touch too. Not sure on the practicalities or legalities of getting just GMHolden owners etc.

In fact, i'd market it along the lines of "Live the life of luxury and power. Be paid to test drive a G6E Turbo and win a luxury holiday!" *

I would if I were Ford go through all their customer database and mailout 20-50,000 odd letters. You'd probably need groups of dealers to have access to a G6ET. Which is probably the expensive part. Australia is clearly a vast country.

I agree with the $44,990 price of a G6ET. I don't think that there would be anything more than $2k extra for Ford to fit the extras (turbo, unique intake & exhaust manifolds, intercooler & piping, uprated 6HP26 gearbox). The R&D that has already been spent, might as well get the most out of it. The per unit cost will be lower over a wider amortisation.

*Ford, if you are reading, would love a holiday myself!!

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by jpd80

That's right (I was fishing for that response....)

Ford was supposed to put EPAS in Ecoboost Falcon but didn't.

The EPAS is to be built in a new factory in Melbourne outskirts. The company making them got severely delayed by redtape from memory. They are meant to be starting to produce soon.

Originally Posted by jpd80

FWIW, I think Ford should start combining a few models and re align with Holden:

- Combine XT and G6 to form "Ambiente" to combat Evoke
- Rename G6E and G6ET as "Titanium" to combat Calais
- Add a "Titanium Plus" to combat Calais V
- XR Continues unchanged.

Yeah, i'd be aligning with the Euro models.
On Focus they have
* Ambiente
* Trend
* Sport
* Titanimum
* ST

Ambiente, is basic equipment, smaller engine, some great safety stuff, but no gadgets or even alloys. But it is a Focus which is a great small car. The good stuff which you'd expect in Falcon start at Trend.

So, for me it should be Falcon Trend, Falcon XR, Falcon Titanium, Falcon GS & GT.

[jpd80]

Full of tech and aggressive pricing, Ford must respond to VF or risk even lower sales of Falcon,
this is about survivability and IMO, Ford needs to do an FG III, even if it's a tech upgrade in front of the 2014 car.....

[b0son]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Hardly sitting on their hands when Ford just did a down balance and staff reduction late last year.

I meant in terms of pricing/spec of the car.

little else can be done.

Its hard to even consider a Falcon now then, objectively... and they want us to wait til 2014? We know what's happened each and every time they've asked buyers to wait for updates/new models/etc. They gone elsewhere. And those customers rarely come back.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by jpd80

That's right (I was fishing for that response....)

Ford was supposed to put EPAS in Ecoboost Falcon but didn't.

:O I've been played!

Actually, it appears there was an expectation that EPAS was to appear in the FGII, across the range:

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...25784F0010C61E

Perhaps it got cut at the last minute like a lot of other things?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by b0son

I meant in terms of pricing/spec of the car.

Ford's two most popular Falcon have been significantly discounted last month.

Its hard to even consider a Falcon now then, objectively...

And yet, every month Falcon still finds buyers - and of the 770 sales last month, just over
half of them were I-6T or V8 versions, all of which makes relative sales reasonably profitable.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I'm curious about the Holden move on pricing and while the commentators appear to be focusing
on the value rpoducts in the sub $40K brackets, I see the real battle here is to encourage buyers
into that more lucrative $40K to $50K corridor which seems to have eluded Ford and Holden for years.

Agreed and Holden intend to get every potential Falcon sale they can. For a fleet car they have never had a Commodore so good and for the private buyer and user chooser market, the high end Commodores offer tech the Falcon can't match at the moment and some very impressive value for money.

I think the Falcon drive line is better, but that is really all Falcon can fight with for now.

I also suspect the SSV redline is as much a threat to the base HSV's for value as it is to the FPV GS so will be interesting to see what HSV actually do.

For Ford my prediction is that GS production will be phased out and the XR8 will return with 18 inch wheels and the luxury pack, but otherwise the GS driveline, as a competitor for the SS-V. Since the GS is really an XR8 anyway, this would be a quick fix to get Falcons V8 offerings back on the radar of buyers. Either that or they will throw in the towel and phase GS out altogether.

What does seem obvious to me is Holden have no intention of making life easy for Ford as they want as much of the large car market as there is remaining - especially those left who are willing to pay for the premium models. I fully expect the LS3 will be in SS Commodore and Calais come 2014 Falcon timeframe and a new V8 will go into the HSV's.

The large car market might be contracting, but its obvious Holden want as much of that remaining market as possible and they are prepared to fight for it. Its decision time at Ford. They either start to fight or roll over.

If Ford do nothing, I'm predicting that Falcon sales of less than 500 a month are a distinct possibility in the coming months.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

I think the Falcon drive line is better, but that is really all Falcon can fight with for now.

you obviously haven't seen the pics then

ok, looks are subjective, i know, but i'd much prefer a falcon than a chrysler crossfire mated to a mazda6.

[jpd80]

The maddening thing in all of this is that even after Holden loads VF with features and cuts the price,
there's absolutely no guarantee that sales will return to a level significant enough to justify the cash
thrown away to make it all happen..this is why I think VF is a huge gamble for Holden - buyers could still
avoid large sedans like the plague, we just don't know yet...

So in a way Holden has risked large sums of money to increase production volume by reducing profit per car,
that would seem to be the exact opposite to what Ford has been doing with right sizing to the market...

[prydey]

even if they jump back up around 3000/month for 6 months, it still won't be enough. they would need sustained sales for a couple of years to amortize the spend one would think. of course ford and falcon would be no different. not sure the level of spend will be quite as high with ford though. they get accused of being too cautious but perhaps they realise money is a hard got commodity, not something that grows on trees or runs like water, like the other brand.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Full of tech and aggressive pricing, Ford must respond to VF or risk even lower sales of Falcon,
this is about survivability and IMO, Ford needs to do an FG III, even if it's a tech upgrade in front of the 2014 car.....

Ford has already moved on pricing if you ask me!! Ford spent all by the last month of 2012 with an advertised price of 38K+ for an XR6, but have spend all of this year with a sub 35K price for XR6

[Rodge]

"Live the life of luxury and power. Be paid to test drive a G6E Turbo and win a luxury holiday!" *

I like it mate. Great minds think alike

[Chopped]

Pinched from LS1 forum (posted by user [mitch]) >

[R-Design]

Don't mind the redline at the old VE premium of $1,500 but at a price of $6,000 is a bit much. I wonder how much it costs to option up the wheels on their own? Not feeling the chrome door handles either.

[GQ_Smooth]

Don't mind the look of the SS, stripes are a bit much for people my age, headlights look very Caprice.

Quite surprised they haven't put indicators on the wing mirrors.

[anto]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Everyone keeps saying look in a Focus, look in a Mondeo, and look in a 300C as a bench mark for Tech. Most of this stuff is missing the both a Mazda & Falcon!!

Just to name a few
Touch screen
Blind spot alarm
Active brake assist
Active key (or what ever it is called when you walk up to the car & it unlocks)
Auto parking


As I've said before & I'll say again. The Mazda 3 does not have much more than a Falcon has. So if Falcon is out dated tech wise, so too is the Mazda 3

just to reiterate on this, less than a year ago my sister looked at buying a new mazda 3 and it didnt even have bluetooth as standard...need less to say she chose wisely with and went with a focus titanium in the end.

[Alan D Segal]

Rodge and phillyc - with respect, the problem I personally see with the $50 voucher idea is that time is very valuable. I'd expect people looking to spend up to $50k drive-away on a new car to be earning close to $50 per hour anyway. On weekends that time is worth twice that, so it might not be enough of an incentive.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by anto

just to reiterate on this, less than a year ago my sister looked at buying a new mazda 3 and it didnt even have bluetooth as standard...need less to say she chose wisely with and went with a focus titanium in the end.

I think it didnt even have cruise control as standard, the base spec one anyway

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by Alan D Segal

Rodge and phillyc - with respect, the problem I personally see with the $50 voucher idea is that time is very valuable. I'd expect people looking to spend up to $50k drive-away on a new car to be earning close to $50 per hour anyway. On weekends that time is worth twice that, so it might not be enough of an incentive.

Time is short for everyone and we're all working longer hours, I couldn't agree more. In my opinion its the right level to set it at because its designed to weed-out those that would do it just for the money, i.e. if you set it at $100 a lot of people would come in just to collect the money, setting it at $50 probably only appeals to people who may be in the market anyway or have at least a modicum of curiosity in the first place, a spark that might translate into a sale.
We all know it costs money just to get to the dealership and back in petrol so in effect this is a token thank-you for coming in and trying our G6ET and as a token of appreciation here's your $50 petrol voucher.
Ford need to try something different...hence my suggestion.