New IR changes to take effect

[coyote]

Originally Posted by John McMaster

Twit...I know you're self employed.

If you wish to add a logical comment to this thread you are more than welcome...if however your desire is to promote stupidity.....rack off!!!!!!!!

You are welcome to look up the definition of sarcasm in the dictionary any time you stop jumping to conclusions, the point I was attempting to add to the discussions was that some of the contrubitors to this debate are only looking from one side, that of being an employee.

Having beed ripped off by employees, stolen off, had my equipment trashed I too have a right to express my opinion.

I am sick and tired of the growing mentality that the world owes me a living, (you know the type that sue Mcdonalds because they did not warn that the coffee is hot Brigade) get of your tail and make of it what you want, and if you are not prepared to work for it or take the risks associated, then stop critizing those that do.

Balance is the key employers need good employees and employees need good employers, but if the employers see the risks of employing people as too high then they will do as i have done and reduce the company accordingly.

[gtfpv]

ok some people are getting it . but lots are over looking the fact that bosses dont make decisions . so loyalty and hard work goes out the window . lots of bosses work 60 70 hours / week . and can be sacked . if they have reliable loyal workers under them . the mangers and ceos can make a decision deciding to terminate the lot of them and replace them all . everything isnt up to the bosses and employees .what i am trying to say is that mosrt bosses are employees . and decisions are made for them . its no use saying that if you look after your boss and work hard they will look after you . they will go with you . THESE IR LAWS COMPLETELY STINK !!!! STOP BEING SO NIEVE EVERYONE with this way of thinking .
the only good thing i see out of the new IR laws is it is easier to sack problem workers . which is good . but it was never impossible to sack them anyway.

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by cedric

THE ONLY PEOPLE WORRIED ABOUT THIS ARE PEOLE WHO DON'T WORK HARD ENOUGH BECAUSE IF YOU DO YOU ARE BEST WAY FOR YOUR BOSS TO MAKE MONEY

Hmmm...... This is how a government proposing such changes remains in power. People have short memories, or have simply never lived through an economic down turn.

cedric I mean no offence to you but I disagree strongly.
The building industry we (you and I) are involved in is booming at the moment. So if you're not making a good dollar at the moment you never will. But what happens when things are not so rosey? It does not matter how hard you work, if someone is forced to work as hard for less that's you out of a job.

I am a "boss" now, and like others in this thread value my staff and treat them as I would wish to be treated. My first employee and right-hand man has been with me seven years. I'm "community minded", family comes first, everyone has a life outside of work etc. Many larger business, especially those responsible to share holders only see the bottom line. We need our elected representitives to produce IR regs that find the balance between profits and people having a decent life.

Originally Posted by flappist

I have to make a decission based on a resume and a 5 minute interview.

No you don't! A five minute interview?
No offence flappist, but how do you expect to find the right people if you do not ask the right questions? There are books on the subject(asking the right questions), that would be of far more use to you than IR reg's that allow you to sack someone you failed to check out properly. It would save you both a lot of wasted time IMHO.

Is this new power us "bosses" are going to have really creating more jobs? Were we that terrified of the old unfair dismissal laws that our buisness were being held back? Wow, I wonder where all this new work we have been unable to do until now is coming from?

I'm all for IR reform don't get me wrong it's well over due. But not a lot of what is being proposed inspires me.
It is no secret that the government plans to nobble the unions with it. When asked directly Mr Howard responded, that they(the Unions) are the power base of the opposition, so if the new IR changes decrease their power why would he be worried?
This may seem quite OK to our right wing brethren, but a strong democracy requires a, strong, vocal, active opposition. When the government uses it's majority to claim a mandate for reducing the power of it's opposition, we should all be worried. In other countries they would be out in the streets. Oh, actually the unions have been.

It's hard to imagine the oppostion getting an act anytime soon. The problem for Mr Howard is Australian voters don't elect popular oppositions, they tend to kick out unpopular governments.
Victorians will remember that muppet Kennett losing an "unlosable" election to the unheard of Steve Bracks.

[Bluefreak]

Originally Posted by nugget378

The AWU have been an employer advocate masquerading as a union for 20 years or more

And I was well aware of this before I was employed... Trouble is the blokes I work with are now and always have been too ИИИИ scared to stand up collectively and migrate to a better source of representation...

[MO]

Originally Posted by coyote

You are welcome to look up the definition of sarcasm in the dictionary any time you stop jumping to conclusions, the point I was attempting to add to the discussions was that some of the contrubitors to this debate are only looking from one side, that of being an employee.

Having beed ripped off by employees, stolen off, had my equipment trashed I too have a right to express my opinion.

I am sick and tired of the growing mentality that the world owes me a living, (you know the type that sue Mcdonalds because they did not warn that the coffee is hot Brigade) get of your tail and make of it what you want, and if you are not prepared to work for it or take the risks associated, then stop critizing those that do.

Balance is the key employers need good employees and employees need good employers, but if the employers see the risks of employing people as too high then they will do as i have done and reduce the company accordingly.

Point taken...I thought you were just being silly,maybe the word sarc' at the end would've helped.

Anyway no offence all fixed.

[brenx]

Originally Posted by Bluefreak

And I was well aware of this before I was employed... Trouble is the blokes I work with are now and always have been too ИИИИ scared to stand up collectively and migrate to a better source of representation...

You'd like my works union. My boss's boss is the president of the union! How's that for conflict of interest! It's the very reason I refuse to be a member. Till they become a reason union, I'm better off on my own.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by sourbastard

Rubbish. You only keep your job for as long as you have customers and/or work to do. You can work hard, you can work well, but if your employer makes bad business decisions, all the hard work in the world wont keep your job when the customers dont walk in the door.

I would be happy to concede that is a very real threat going forward.... I would also point out that many awards, EBA's etc contained provisions where workers could be sacked when the work dries up.

So suggest any other course of action is nonsense. Why on earth would an employer keep an employee on when there is no work to do? That's not employment - that's charity.

[brenx]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

I would be happy to concede that is a very real threat going forward.... I would also point out that many awards, EBA's etc contained provisions where workers could be sacked when the work dries up.

So suggest any other course of action is nonsense. Why on earth would an employer keep an employee on when there is no work to do? That's not employment - that's charity.

Which leads to unemployment ;) Something the current gov't prides themselves on. Can't wait to see them fall flat on their face.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by coyote

I am sick and tired of the growing mentality that the world owes me a living, (you know the type that sue Mcdonalds because they did not warn that the coffee is hot Brigade) get of your tail and make of it what you want, and if you are not prepared to work for it or take the risks associated, then stop critizing those that do.

Balance is the key employers need good employees and employees need good employers, but if the employers see the risks of employing people as too high then they will do as i have done and reduce the company accordingly.

Here, here. Have a read guys. Then consider the demographics of Australia's economy (ABS and Council of Small Bus Australia):

- 96% of all businesses in Australia are considered small businesses (ABS defines this as less than 20 employees)
- Small businesses employ 3.3 million people. Yep - largest non govt, non agricultural employer
- 30% of the country's economic activity is generated by these businesses.

Now ask yourself - if you were elected to government, would you be looking to foster and encourage the growth of small business? Or continue protecting the 17% of private sector employees currently with a trade union?

Should we free the labour market up, allow more people access to employment (predominantly within this MASSIVE sector)? Or keep it closed so that the few who have bargained themselves into a strong position can continue doing so whilst others go jobless?

You speak of egalatarian values... but you're happy to see people remain jobless so that you can maintain your 18% leave loading or RDO's? How is that "a fair go" ??

Originally Posted by gtfpv

THESE IR LAWS COMPLETELY STINK !!!! STOP BEING SO NIEVE EVERYONE with this way of thinking

Dont assume I dont see your (and the majority of participant's in this thread) point of view. I understand completely. I just dont agree.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by brenx

Which leads to unemployment ;) Something the current gov't prides themselves on. Can't wait to see them fall flat on their face.

Exactly. Its natural to the economic cycle.

What do you think they're trying to do here????? The government really has little to gain in upsetting the workforce. They do, however, have a lot to gain by promoting economic growth in the country...

[brenx]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Exactly. Its natural to the economic cycle.

What do you think they're trying to do here????? The government really has little to gain in upsetting the workforce. They do, however, have a lot to gain by promoting economic growth in the country...

They sure do Their own unemployment. It's a pitty they get massive abnormal pensions. I'd put $ they'd change things if they were forced to live on a normal persons pension like everyone else.

[pauljh74]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Here, here. Have a read guys. Then consider the demographics of Australia's economy (ABS and Council of Small Bus Australia):

- 96% of all businesses in Australia are considered small businesses (ABS defines this as less than 20 employees)
- Small businesses employ 3.3 million people. Yep - largest non govt, non agricultural employer
- 30% of the country's economic activity is generated by these businesses.

Now ask yourself - if you were elected to government, would you be looking to foster and encourage the growth of small business? Or continue protecting the 17% of private sector employees currently with a trade union?

Should we free the labour market up, allow more people access to employment (predominantly within this MASSIVE sector)? Or keep it closed so that the few who have bargained themselves into a strong position can continue doing so whilst others go jobless?

You speak of egalatarian values... but you're happy to see people remain jobless so that you can maintain your 18% leave loading or RDO's? How is that "a fair go" ??

You think that if companies pay less (no RDOs or leave loadings etc) that this money will be spent on new jobs? Vanessa0305 summed it up perfectly when she said her husband's section dropped from 5 to 3 workers, now he's been sacked because they can't keep up. He was earning low wages as well. Any savings in wages will go into increasing profits. We already have a number of companies who make record profits yet continually axe staff. Look at Telstra or the banks for example. While you pay more for their service yet wait longer and longer to be served due to cutbacks, they are making bigger profits.

Most workers who bargain a better deal for themselves are merely struggling to keep up with the rise in the cost of living - which goes up whether or not they get a payrise. In real terms (after taking into effect inflation), many workers are paid less now than 10 years ago. Inflation has been hovering around the 4% mark for a while, the payrises I've got over the past 4 years have been 3% per year for 3 years, and 5% last July. Hardly robbing the poor company - who has been performing well in my case. At the same time the number of jobs have been cut and we are working harder. Many other workers in lower paid jobs would be lucky to get similar raises. The main group who would benefit from above average increases are higher paid executives and workers in high demand industries.

The Howard government is making these changes not primarily for the good of the country, but to pay businesses back for all those donations paid to them by the business sector - in effect this will benefit the few at the cost of the majority. The GST was the first major helping hand to the rich, it has increased the tax burden on the poor, and eased it on the rich.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by pauljh74

You think that if companies pay less (no RDOs or leave loadings etc) that this money will be spent on new jobs? Vanessa0305 summed it up perfectly when she said her husband's section dropped from 5 to 3 workers, now he's been sacked because they can't keep up. He was earning low wages as well. Any savings in wages will go into increasing profits. We already have a number of companies who make record profits yet continually axe staff. Look at Telstra or the banks for example. While you pay more for their service yet wait longer and longer to be served due to cutbacks, they are making bigger profits.

Well first up i'll state that im not going to comment on Vanessa0305's husband's circumstances - i dont know the details, it would be insensitive for anyone to comment/speculate about it - with the exception that we all of course wish Vanessa and her family well.

I am skeptical of your figures.

In real terms (after taking into effect inflation), many workers are paid less now than 10 years ago. Inflation has been hovering around the 4% mark for a while, the payrises I've got over the past 4 years have been 3% per year for 3 years, and 5% last July.

Inflation as measured by the CPI has been tracking at: (source: ATO)

Year ended june - CPI increase
2001 - 5.3%
2002 - 3.6%
2003- 3.1%
2004 - 2.4%

AWOTE (full time adult ordinary time earnings) i.e. survey of actual earnings as we know that many people are paid above the award/safety net and this is therefore more reflective of the money being earnt as opposed to the min wage specified by and award: (source: Parliamentary library)

Year ended june - AWOTE increase
2002 - 5.2%
2003 - 6.3%
2004 - 3.1%
2005 - 6.0%

At the same time the number of jobs have been cut and we are working harder.

Source: ACTU

Australian Jobs have grown in number by 10.4% in the last 5 years (article dated March 2005).

The Howard government is making these changes not primarily for the good of the country, but to pay businesses back for all those donations paid to them by the business sector - in effect this will benefit the few at the cost of the majority. The GST was the first major helping hand to the rich, it has increased the tax burden on the poor, and eased it on the rich.

WTF???

The rich pay 10% GST just like i do... how is the GST benefiting them? In fact, considering the lifestyle i lead - i would think the GST hits the rich harder than someone like me as i dont spend much money outside of bills, car and food....

[pks54]

quote futura4.9
You speak of egalatarian values... but you're happy to see people remain jobless so that you can maintain your 18% leave loading or RDO's? How is that "a fair go" ??

Please dont use that, the unemployment is low. you will not get the jobless rate any much better..... some poeple actually want to be on the dole.

[4.9 EF Futura]

Originally Posted by pks54

Please dont use that, the unemployment is low. you will not get the jobless rate any much better..... some poeple actually want to be on the dole.

But if i listen to the majority of participants in this thread.... there are people lining up to take peoples jobs and do them for less money....

[pauljh74]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

WTF???

The rich pay 10% GST just like i do... how is the GST benefiting them? In fact, considering the lifestyle i lead - i would think the GST hits the rich harder than someone like me as i dont spend much money outside of bills, car and food....

I'll spell it out - those who are poorer tend to spend most, if not all their money on food, utilities, and running the car - the necessities. Whereas someone well off will probably spend more on these things but have alot left over.
We'll make it simple, the poor person spends $300 on these items and earns $600 a week. The rest of that money goes towards the mortgage for example which isn't taxed. They pay $30 in GST - 10%. Some items are tax free, but for this example they pay $30. 30/600 = 5% of their take home wage
The richer guy spends $500 a week on these items, but earns $2000/week. $50 in GST out of $2000 is 2.5%. This is why it increases the burden on poorer people. Previously less items were taxed, even though some were taxed higher. Services (like utilities) weren't taxed at all. Overall the GST rakes in more tax

[4.9 EF Futura]

Well you're talking about disposable income there. It stands to reason that someone who earns megabuck is going to spend less of a % of their pay on living expenses and therefore pay less % of their pay towards GST...

Id look at it on a $$ basis. The rich person in above scenario payed $50/week in GST, the lower income person payed $30. To me, it's a backwards argument suggesting the burden is borne by the lower income earner.

But if you're going to look at it that way (i.e. a % of someone's pay) then surely anyone who pays the top marginal tax rate has a bone to pick with anyone who is on the 15% bracket?

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

You speak of egalatarian values... but you're happy to see people remain jobless so that you can maintain your 18% leave loading or RDO's? How is that "a fair go" ??.

Arrrrr..... It was me who spoke of egalitarian values and the idea of a "fair go". But I am an employer and not a member of a trade union. You must have been confused, can not imagine you would take me out of context to support an ideological point of view (rolls eyes).

But you make some excellent points about the strength of the ecomony. Could I add, the stock market has hit an all time high, record company profits, record executive salaries, interest rates on hold the list goes on. So where is the evidence that the ecomomy is being held back by groups of workers organising themselves to get a slice of the good times?

Under the economic mode we live it is necessary, some would argue desirable, that we have a pool of labor (the unempolyed) to be pulled into the workforce in times of rapid economic growth. While some of us find it distasteful, we should understand that the benifts we pay the unemployed are for this service they are providing. Claiming all unemployed just don't want to work is offensive.

No matter what I think of unions personally, I consider them vital in my egalitarian dream world. The idea that unions exist for the good of their administrators is not supported by the good work done through the history of this country. It is no accident they have highjacked the flag of Eureka.

You can not create jobs by forcing people to taking a pay cut, I wish it was so easy. The complexities of supply and demand, market forces, business confidence, consumer confidence, etc etc can easily be brushed a side with dogma.

We need to elect representatives who have a vision for our future. The current corp on all sides are not inspiring me.

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Dont assume I dont see your point of view. I understand completely. I just dont agree.

Right back at you :evil3:

[ltd]

Before all of the forecasters of doom suggest that the sky is falling, I'd like to ask how many people have been before the IRC?
The fact of the matter is that the IRC is staffed with union delegates and appointees and even when an employer is found to be in the right, they still have to pay the employee something.
I had a case of this when I had to fire someone who was 68 and was suffering dimentia so bad, that he would get lost on the way to work. For 12 months I counselled him, gave him retraining, warned him, instructed him; and eventually had to fire him. He would have forgotten about it however his son ( a legal secretary) refused to believe his dad was any different. In the end, after the commissioner said that it was a very sad case and that I had done everything in my power, he still awarded $15000 to this guy as "I am a company that would be able to afford it".

I had to sell my car to pay for this debt, and I had done nothing wrong. Did the experience put me off employing anyone full time? You bet your ***.

The government is in the business of getting re elected, they are not going to sabotage their own chances introducing legislation that will make the workforce hate them. Someone cited Telstra as an example of this, well, Telstra are axing jobs in preference of having overseas employees as they are cheaper. This is not government policy, they are trying to arrest and stem the tide of defection. Making Australia a more attractive place to invest is only going to aid the country; having ridiculous legislation that inhibits a business' rights to get rid of incompetent employees and thusly affording some kind of artificial protection is only going to drive business out of the country. This will result in no jobs.

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by Work Horse

Arrrrr..... It was me who spoke of egalitarian values and the idea of a "fair go". But I am an employer and not a member of a trade union. You must have been confused, can not imagine you would take me out of context to support an ideological point of view (rolls eyes).

But you make some excellent points about the strength of the ecomony. Could I add, the stock market has hit an all time high, record company profits, record executive salaries, interest rates on hold the list goes on. So where is the evidence that the ecomomy is being held back by groups of workers organising themselves to get a slice of the good times?

Under the economic mode we live it is necessary, some would argue desirable, that we have a pool of labor (the unempolyed) to be pulled into the workforce in times of rapid economic growth. While some of us find it distasteful, we should understand that the benifts we pay the unemployed are for this service they are providing. Claiming all unemployed just don't want to work is offensive.

No matter what I think of unions personally, I consider them vital in my egalitarian dream world. The idea that unions exist for the good of their administrators is not supported by the good work done through the history of this country. It is no accident they have highjacked the flag of Eureka.

You can not create jobs by forcing people to taking a pay cut, I wish it was so easy. The complexities of supply and demand, market forces, business confidence, consumer confidence, etc etc can easily be brushed a side with dogma.

We need to elect representatives who have a vision for our future. The current corp on all sides are not inspiring me.



Right back at you :evil3:

Hi Stuart, your views as a guy who runs his own business are very refreshing; if all the boss’s where like you mate we wouldn't need to worry about any laws.
Totally agree its all about balance.

PS: When is the budget racer coming back Calder Park?

[vanessa0305]

Sorry to read that Nessy.... Where bouts are you guys located...

We are at Warra, Qld. Its west of Dalby, very rural. So far no luck in finding any work and we are really begining to panic. No money coming in is very scarey. I can tell you although my hubby doesn't have people skills he does get along with the men he works with. Last week there was no hint that he would be fired on Monday. No one said they were unhappy with his performance or that he needed to pick up the pace. Nothing at all. He has only ever had one warning the whole time he has been working there and that was after a spat with his boss about the amount of work they were being given. But out of the blue first thing Monday morning there they were with their kill list. And my hubby was on it.

Originally Posted by flappist

I Because of this I have been very cautious in employing new people. This has been unfair to many prople who really do want to work and be fair dinkum.
I have to make a decission based on a resume and a 5 minute interview.
Many have not got a start because I was not 100% sure and if they did turn out to be dropkicks I am stuck with them.

what about the 3 month probation. no reason you can't easily get rid of deadwood in that time. The company I work for just got rid of someone on the last day of the 3 months...no issues at all.
That is why I don't believe these changes are really assisting anyone except JH and his mates

[MO]

So if these new IR regs/laws are so good .....has anyone seen /heard whats going on in France...where a similar set of regs/laws has just been passed.

At this stage its civil disobedience and it will escalate...and same is set to happen here.

Be warned ppl its only just beginning...the workers WILL NOT be subjugated.

The days of the landed gentry are gone!!!!!

I shall now bite my tounge lest I incur the wroth of the team.

[gtfpv]

i'm glad most people agree on this subject . THAT THE NEW IR LAWS ARE BAD FOR SOCIETY.
notice most people who disagree with me consider themselves right wing . they consider themselves employers but are in actual fact workers . inflation quotes for example . 3.8% per year . ha . then why did the post office rent down at the local shopping centre just go up 40% why are health funds going up 8%/yr . why have houses gone up sometimes 20% per year (recently) . why have executive salaries gone up between 10% and 30% per year over the last 4 years. why can councils just put there land rates up 15% . whatabout the ratio of permanent to casual workforce over the past 10 years. 4 hours of work per week is classed by the federal govt as employed you know . somepeople here still living at home with mummy and daddy are they. lpg and petrol have gone up 40 % in the last 3 years. lets factor these in with an average 3% increase on an average $48000 per year shal we. lets say wages are going up $20 per year net shall we . now that would more than cover all of these cost increases now . wouldnt it .
just what is the average IQ of australians these days . . as they say FU JACK I'M OK FOR NOW . (HIGH IQ STATEMENT)

[svo347]

Lets just quietly sit back and watch what happens...
If it works great for australia but i see nothing but hardship for some ahead.

[muppet]

Hay but plasma TV's have come down from 10 grand to 3 or 4. that is how our FU government justifies its inflation figures. It is a pitty that you can't eat a plasma TV. And no I dont have one because on my wage I am flat out paying my house off and buying food.You forgot to mention milk and bread how much have they gone up in the last few years.These are the things that people have to buy every day to live . 4% inflation my ar$$

[OLDFORDNUT]

we are witnessing the start of a NIGHTMARE you can argue the good and the bad but rest assured the sh$t is about to hit the fan,
my wages over last five years has gone up $60 a week, from two years ago my rent increased $90a week.(due to houses going from $120,000 to $300,00 in 18 months) and this year another $20,everyone i know who rents has had roughly same rises in rent,my shopping has gone up over $50 a week in the same period,tell me and my friends and workmates how the new rules (or lack of them ) will make this better.anyone who says its about to creat new jobs or improve conditions is a bloody fool,so stick that where the sun dont shine you moronic Doogooders.and cross your fingers we dont look like France soon.

[DOC]

Originally Posted by nicholas

we are witnessing the start of a NIGHTMARE you can argue the good and the bad but rest assured the sh$t is about to hit the fan,
my wages over last five years has gone up $60 a week, from two years ago my rent increased $90a week.(due to houses going from $120,000 to $300,00 in 18 months) and this year another $20,everyone i know who rents has had roughly same rises in rent,my shopping has gone up over $50 a week in the same period,tell me and my friends and workmates how the new rules (or lack of them ) will make this better.anyone who says its about to creat new jobs or improve conditions is a bloody fool,so stick that where the sun dont shine you moronic Doogooders.and cross your fingers we dont look like France soon.

Hi Champ, try not to get caught up in it to much ( not saying this lightly ), but those keeping a cool head will be fine, Yes you say rents gone up, food and well just about everything i suppose.

a few simple things though over those years what investments have you made ? ( please dont take this as being a smart a ss remark ) but more, from here if you were to invest a small amount each week you will find that instead of you working for your money, instead your money will work for you.

It is important to live within your means as well and to learn that you can live without something today for a better lifestyle tomorrow.

In addition employers want good workers and will in most cases pay more for them not less, so dont be afraid of losing your job, from when i started working i had a policy to always work 5 minutes longer than anyone else and to always give more than i took. doing similar ensures to much work and not the other way around.

if all this makes me a moron and a looser i suppose id better go where the sun do shine

all will be good as above just dont get caught up in the hype, step back plan and refocus, those that do will come out on top.

[OLDFORDNUT]

man,if i had money to invest i'd be happy,i struggle to pay rent,dont have any Holidays and can only scrape enough money together for 2 or 3 cans of coke at sports club on Friday nights.thank heavens im a scrounger and can find bits and pieces to sell on ebay with a couple of mates,otherwise id be on the street with nothing,we are about to see lots more New York type working poor where they have full time jobs but are homeless living in tents,and yes it has been happening to unemployed for last couple of years already in Australia.unless they can share housing,Housing commission in QLD has up to 5 year waiting lists now in most areas.this is not being alarmist it is actually starting to occur already as more and more are living in caravan parks ,mind you the van park owners have jumped on the band wagon as you see dumpy 18ft vans with annex going for up to $170 a week.

[4.9 EF Futura]

inflation quotes for example . 3.8% per year . ha . then why did the post office rent down at the local shopping centre just go up 40% why are health funds going up 8%/yr . why have houses gone up sometimes 20% per year (recently) . why have executive salaries gone up between 10% and 30% per year over the last 4 years. why can councils just put there land rates up 15%

I'm not sure how to respond to this. Someone said inflation had been outstripping wage growth... i looked up the BROADLY ACCEPTED figures for inflation (CPI) and wage growth (AWOTE) and they were contradictory to the statement made.... where's the problem?

Oh oh - i know. The consumer price index is a deliberate consipracy devised PERSONALLY by john howard in order to deliberately LIE to working Australians? Of course - it makes sense now.

What is the point tho?? Seriously?? When i can provide referenced data to try and put a point across - and it is slagged of as false/inaccurate - however, we should all be encouraged to observe the numbers which gtfpv has pulled out of thin air.

Hay but plasma TV's have come down from 10 grand to 3 or 4. that is how our FU government justifies its inflation figures. It is a pitty that you can't eat a plasma TV. And no I dont have one because on my wage I am flat out paying my house off and buying food.You forgot to mention milk and bread how much have they gone up in the last few years.These are the things that people have to buy every day to live . 4% inflation my ar$

Which encourages responses like this. Where are the facts?!?!? Justification by quoting plasma TV prices??

Here is the make up of the survey which feeds into the CPI and the weightings they take on (source: abs) :

Current housing costs (selected dwelling) 12.8
Domestic fuel and power 2.9
Food and non-alcoholic beverages 19.7
Alcoholic beverages 3.4
Tobacco products 1.6
Clothing and footwear 6.5
Household furnishings and equipment 7.7
Household services and operation 4.3
Medical care and health expenses 3.9
Transport 16.3
Recreation 11.9
Personal care 1.8
Miscellaneous goods and services 7.2
Total goods and services expenditure 100.0

You'll note the heaviest weightings are on housing, food and non-alco bevs, transport and recreation. What does that mean? It means the CPI does a pretty bloody good job of monitoring the average cost of living.

But why accept the plain facts when we have members who can point fingers, invent numbers and use pure emotion to discredit them?

PLASMA TVs MY A$$