Petrol Price crisis......

[Gumboot]

Yeah, didn’t make sense to me either.
Maybe they are mortgaged to the hilt, have purchased on finance and the cost of living, house payments and fuel is starting to bite. Not sure.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Gumboot

Yeah, didn’t make sense to me either.
Maybe they are mortgaged to the hilt, have purchased on finance and the cost of living, house payments and fuel is starting to bite. Not sure.

Get Hinge going on your phone and look at all the over-extended 30-somethings looking for someone to shout them overseas holidays and expensive clothes, or the other side who have financed Ranger Raptors with a penchant for $300 a pop nose beers, was at a pub in the CBD a few weeks ago and people were indulging in the nose beers freely in the gents and someone in the middle of the gaming floor at the casino and its not the typical high flyers either

You're on the money - live within your social class, I don't exist on paper because I've paid cash for all my toys

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Get Hinge going on your phone and look at all the over-extended 30-somethings looking for someone to shout them overseas holidays and expensive clothes, or the other side who have financed Ranger Raptors with a penchant for $300 a pop nose beers, was at a pub in the CBD a few weeks ago and people were indulging in the nose beers freely in the gents and someone in the middle of the gaming floor at the casino and its not the typical high flyers either

You're on the money - live within your social class, I don't exist on paper because I've paid cash for all my toys

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BpE9rXSloyk

[Sprintey]

The only thing that could make those heat islands better is siting meteorological stations in them. Don't laugh, it's what they've done.

[Sprintey]

related to self sufficiency, good little thread on why you might want to keep a decent manufacturing footprint

https://twitter.com/WarintheFuture/s...35853860118528

Oz leaders, facepalm

[M&Ms]

I just came back from Singapore, premium petrol is currently $3.80 per litre at the moment. Count ourselves somewhat lucky I guess.

[ivorya]

I think a much better way of Bio farming would be Algae. It started the oil in the 1st place!

1kg of Algae consumes 1.8kg C02 per day
1 acre Maple Forrest consumes 2.2kg per day.

Fill some old mines with favourable conditions and your favourite algae and away you go

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZKbyXCrTG8

[Sprintey]

Yes true, it's mentioned as the crop beyond any plant based oil sources. US researched it a lot in 2000s... How to get the CO2 into the algae quickly at scale? Once all the land next to industry (wot industry?) is taken

[Sprintey]

US Navy synthesises jet fuel out of seawater

https://www.zmescience.com/research/...water-0423432/

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

US Navy synthesises jet fuel out of seawater

https://www.zmescience.com/research/...water-0423432/

That was in 2014, so how come it hasn't taken off?

BTW. I think that Jatropha is a noxious weed in some states, so I can't see that being popular.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

That was in 2014, so how come it hasn't taken off?

BTW. I think that Jatropha is a noxious weed in some states, so I can't see that being popular.

Is on the ****list in WA:

https://www.agric.wa.gov.au/declared...-declared-pest

Frowned upon in QLD and NT

Not tolerant to frost - unlikely to survive in NSW and on their ****list too:

https://weeds.dpi.nsw.gov.au/Weeds/BellyacheBush

Must not be imported into the state, sold, bartered, exchanged or offered for sale.

Also banned in SA

Can't find anything for VIC but she's on the ****list far and wide nationally.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

BTW. I think that Jatropha is a noxious weed in some states, so I can't see that being popular.

Gee wiz, how convenient what a surprise. Yeah we wouldn't want a potential future fuel to get in the way of good rabbit breeding country.

Hurdles Franco, there's your answer as to why I run used veggie oil.
Why would anyone put themselves through wasting their time with officialdom.

[Franco Cozzo]

Rokwiz, even though you run your trucks on WVO, have you tried making biodiesel out of it and running that? You'd need methanol and sodium hydroxide, then get rid of the glycerine out of it, if you wanted to make soap from the leftover glycerine you'd probably need to boil the methanol out of it first, not sure if there's a market for methanol soap

It wouldn't have the viscosity issues that WVO has, gel point would depend on what the WVO was.

Would be interesting to get your trucks over to an emissions lab, if we could go back in time a decade we could have done it for free at my auto TAFE before they fired the only teacher certified to use their emissions lab

Now its privatised and you pay like $1500-$2250 for a 5 minute test.

[kevino]

A company I worked for in Auckland back
In 2005/2007 we’re running biodiesel.
Seem to remember there were issues with biodiesel and cold weather
Rockwiz?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kevino

A company I worked for in Auckland back
In 2005/2007 we’re running biodiesel.
Seem to remember there were issues with biodiesel and cold weather
Rockwiz?

Depends on the feedstock you use to make biodiesel effects the gel point of the final product.

Biodiesel itself is a broad term that describes the family of Mono Alkyl Esters which vary in properties depending on which fatty acid they are derived from.

For example, Tallow methyl ester (which we made) has a very high energy density, high cetane, does not gel above 0degC, high lubricity, low viscosity and has lower particulate emissions than petro diesel.

Canola methyl ester (which we also made but was expensive) has a lower energy density, high cetane, does not gel above minus 20decC, lower lubricity, lower viscosity and low particulate emissions.

Palm Oil methyl ester (is made in indonesia) has lower energy density, low viscosity, does not gel above 10degC, lower cetane, lower lubricity and has low particulate emission.

Commercially made biodiesel is an extremely pure fuel which allows far higher engine performance than petro-diesel which we proved in trials with diesel powered metro trains and the new (at the time) euro5 Scania metro buses. The uniform molecular size and shape also means the lubricity of pure biodiesel is superior to petro diesel. (think synthetic oil vs mineral oil) A lot of this benefit is still seen at B20 (20% biodiesel). At B5, not much benefit is left.

There you go, from another community.

Canola derived biodiesel doesn't gel under minus 20 degrees C

WVO (that roKWiz uses in his trucks) and biodiesel are two different fuels, basically biodiesel is a process later, its more refined, you can make biodiesel from WVO with some processing using methanol and sodium hydroxide/potassium hydroxide depending on how keen you are playing science experiments at home.

Or in his case you can just get waste vegetable oil, filter the crap out of it and either run it straight or mix it with normal diesel in varying degrees depending on the temperature and how keen your injection pump and injectors are on higher viscosity liquids.

Older diesels no dramas, all the oldskool indirect injection stuff would tolerate it, but anything modern like common rail with their injectors with multiple fine holes creating a very specific spray pattern and massive fuel pressures, one imagines it wouldn't survive very long being fed WVO.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by kevino

A company I worked for in Auckland back
In 2005/2007 we’re running biodiesel.
Seem to remember there were issues with biodiesel and cold weather
Rockwiz?

Yes there are issues in really cold weather when the engine is first fired up if you are stupid enough to run straight veggie oil (SVO which was the common term back then, don't know why they call it WVO as Franco uses) in winter without having some sort of pre heaters built into the fuel pipes or tank.

As stated if you read back and going along with what Franco posted.

In Summer my trucks run B90 that is 90% used super finely screened cooking oil with 10% diesel added. The diesel will always stop the problem of gelling and algae on an occasional cold summer morning start.

Before the middle of Winter I'll blend a mix of 50% used cooking oil, 10% Kerosene and 40% diesel. (sometimes the blend is reversed and 40% used oil and 50% diesel) Kerosene is added to fuel around the alps areas here anyway (farming winter mix) in Winter.
Mid seasons the blend will change to B60 60/40 veggie oil /diesel mix.

All the veggie oil I have used so far is from 2 local cafe's, pick it up in 20ltrs drums and is screened filtered several times before blending at the Summer base figure of B90, then stored in 3 separate diesel tanks.

I found all along the Hume and Pacific Hwy corridors, several small town communities dabbling in the voodoo art of Biodiesel where it could be purchased from them to allow travel all up and down the Eastcoast.
The reason I always use some measure of diesel in the blend and have never used straight veggie oil is I'm not keen on needing fuel heating modifications to the fuel systems in them. (apart from replacing all flexible rubber hoses and secondary added filters)

Just adding in here its used in my 2 cylinder Nanni yacht engine as well as a 8Kva genset and heating our little offgrid house.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Yes there are issues in really cold weather when the engine is first fired up if you are stupid enough to run straight veggie oil (SVO which was the common term back then, don't know why they call it WVO as Franco uses) in winter without having some sort of pre heaters built into the fuel pipes or tank.

WVO - waste vegetable oil
SVO - straight vegetable oil

They can be used interchangeably I guess but the way I look at it WVO nails it down to used cooking oil.

Check out this setup, this is better than the water/fuel heat exchanger idea I reckon



Basically a fuel sump made out of cast plumbing fittings with a temperature controlled glow plug to heat up WVO on its way to the engine, would cut down your switch over time if running 100% WVO.

Because of the viscosity of WVO, a diesel lift pump like a Walbro FRB51 (or FRB21 if 24V) would work mint I reckon.

https://www.walbro.com/fr-series-fue...ing-fuel-pump/

https://www.walbro.com/fr-series-fue...ing-fuel-pump/

These series of lift pumps are designed for longevity and ****ty fuel, and are available locally, perfect.

I had issues on ambulances with the rear cabin heater doing SFA in VIC winter, what happened was by the time the coolant went from the engine, to the heater in the rear of the van it had already lost a lot of its heat on the way there through the hoses, so it was basically blowing cold air, rendered it absolutely useless at idle, it sort of worked at higher engine speeds but it wasn't much chop. It was solved by ****ing off the heater core for a diesel heater in the back, now it works mint year round and instantly.

I reckon you'd have the same issue with relying on engine coolant to heat fuel lines or through a heat exchanger setup at the tank end, maybe not so much if it was in the engine bay though with a shorter run but warming the fuel lines like I've seen other setups do wouldn't be ideal.

The glow plug idea with the controller is mint, you don't need to plumb coolant lines around the car or increase the volume of the cooling system either, nor wait for the coolant to come up to temperature to warm everything up before switching to WVO - its a lot easier to run wires to a glow plug.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

WVO - waste vegetable oil
SVO - straight vegetable oil

They can be used interchangeably I guess but the way I look at it WVO nails it down to used cooking oil.

Check out this setup, this is better than the water/fuel heat exchanger idea I reckon



Basically a fuel sump made out of cast plumbing fittings with a temperature controlled glow plug to heat up WVO on its way to the engine, would cut down your switch over time if running 100% WVO.

Because of the viscosity of WVO, a diesel lift pump like a Walbro FRB51 (or FRB21 if 24V) would work mint I reckon.

https://www.walbro.com/fr-series-fue...ing-fuel-pump/

https://www.walbro.com/fr-series-fue...ing-fuel-pump/

These series of lift pumps are designed for longevity and ****ty fuel, and are available locally, perfect.

I had issues on ambulances with the rear cabin heater doing SFA in VIC winter, what happened was by the time the coolant went from the engine, to the heater in the rear of the van it had already lost a lot of its heat on the way there through the hoses, so it was basically blowing cold air, rendered it absolutely useless at idle, it sort of worked at higher engine speeds but it wasn't much chop. It was solved by ****ing off the heater core for a diesel heater in the back, now it works mint year round and instantly.

I reckon you'd have the same issue with relying on engine coolant to heat fuel lines or through a heat exchanger setup at the tank end, maybe not so much if it was in the engine bay though with a shorter run but warming the fuel lines like I've seen other setups do wouldn't be ideal.

The glow plug idea with the controller is mint, you don't need to plumb coolant lines around the car or increase the volume of the cooling system either, nor wait for the coolant to come up to temperature to warm everything up before switching to WVO - its a lot easier to run wires to a glow plug.

Run a bit of diesel with it and it solves all those problems.

I was subscribed to Renew magazine for years which featured great articles on all things bio. Seemed at the time the obvious way this country would go but we have an agenda.
Quarter filled the little truck diesel tank today in Benalla @ $2.12 pl which was added to the all ready three quarter tank of the home brewed B90 added yesterday.
Started 2nd go this morning so not as cold.

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by kevino

A company I worked for in Auckland back
In 2005/2007 we’re running biodiesel.
Seem to remember there were issues with biodiesel and cold weather
Rockwiz?

Z fuel company in NZ spent millions setting up a plant and was only moth balled last year it was planned to have 5,10, and i think as high as 20% mixes it was a biofuel made from tallow i think , but as said there were problems even at 5% settling out in tanks in cold weather

fonterra ran it in north island sites but in testing it sounds like economy was adversely affected

A lot of people had said that Tallow wouldnt work ....they had all these fancy chemists develop it but sometimes things dont pan out in reality

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by PooDog

Z fuel company in NZ spent millions setting up a plant and was only moth balled last year it was planned to have 5,10, and i think as high as 20% mixes it was a biofuel made from tallow i think , but as said there were problems even at 5% settling out in tanks in cold weather

fonterra ran it in north island sites but in testing it sounds like economy was adversely affected

A lot of people had said that Tallow wouldnt work ....they had all these fancy chemists develop it but sometimes things dont pan out in reality

Never liked the idea of tallow, would imagine it being a thick substance from the start unlike veggie oil. I'd reckon NZ would be to cold (even the Nth Island) to be running low blends like that year round. Commercially you wouldn't see the benefits for years anyway so it well understood companies are reluctant to do it.
Reasonably successful plant here only recently closed due to no ongoing support from Govco.
The diesel engine will take a while to become cleaned from soots and will need plenty of filter changes when freshly converted. The power will be lower until the internals start to clean themselves. The power always returns stronger.

[kevino]

Rockwiz
Smart operating!!
With diesel around $2.15 here on the Gc and some where round that in Vic you must be saving ****loads of money.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by kevino

Rockwiz
Smart operating!!
With diesel around $2.15 here on the Gc and some where round that in Vic you must be saving ****loads of money.

Ta. Did it years ago but it was never about saving money.

[Franco Cozzo]

There's also people running separate fuel tanks for WVO, separate fuel lines, heat exchangers et al, car starts on regular diesel first, once engine is up to running temperature they switch over to WVO now the heat exchanger is warm and has warmed up the WVO tank/fuel lines.

I saw someone doing this with a glow plug to warm up the WVO in the lines, not a bad method doesn't rely on coolant traveling around the car outside of the cooling circuit.

Given current prices, surely commercial B100 that can be used in modern diesels would be worth considering firing up again?

[Franco Cozzo]

I love how we actually have the manufacturing and agricultural capability for energy independence from the Middle East, as well as businesses with the capability to do it and a cleaner method of fuel to boot but we still go begging and hang wringing to OPEC hoping they'll increase production to cut everyone some slack.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I love how we actually have the manufacturing and agricultural capability for energy independence from the Middle East, as well as businesses with the capability to do it and a cleaner method of fuel to boot but we still go begging and hang wringing to OPEC hoping they'll increase production to cut everyone some slack.

Australia really has lost its way. We were once so self sufficient and actually could build things.

Amazing a tiny country such as Great Britain still manufactures so many things, respects its Heritage and farming culture and still has the highest monetary value in its pound. I bet they are glad they never went to Euros.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Australia really has lost its way. We were once so self sufficient and actually could build things.

Amazing a tiny country such as Great Britain still manufactures so many things, respects its Heritage and farming culture and still has the highest monetary value in its pound. I bet they are glad they never went to Euros.

Yeah I keep an eye toward the olde countries, and I'm impressed with what I'm seeing. Seems they took a look into being a services economy around 2010, then produced a white paper where government would encourage manufacturing - which is true to their history, hub of the Industrial Revolution and all. So JLR is building huge battery factories, shipbuilding is strong and constant (no feast/famine in orders) with export success, they've decided to nationally own certain steel manufacturers with specialised IP (rather than flog these off, have the IP stripped, then the company discarded like what was done to Rover). New Nissan (or Mitsu?) plant with 2Bn of funds to upgrade, last I read. Their hand held kit has proven very effective in Ukraine, but that might just be warfare changing. Oh yeah, minerals resource rent tax from their conservative government, too. Wow.

And yes, keeping the pound was a godsend. If the rate of interest/currency supply was set somewhere else (ie somewhere with Octoberfest), they couldn't adjust independently when their economy needed it. They can also relatively devalue it to make their manufacturers more competitive (at the cost of more inflation on imports and 'beating' the locals to not consume so many, but rather work and export more)

There's still heaps of ingenuity here in Australia. It still inhabits the sheds and garages of the nation.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I love how we actually have the manufacturing and agricultural capability for energy independence from the Middle East, as well as businesses with the capability to do it and a cleaner method of fuel to boot but we still go begging and hang wringing to OPEC hoping they'll increase production to cut everyone some slack.

Can you imagine the Saudi's paying $3-4/L for petrol in Riyadh? European benchmark prices for a product made in arguably the biggest oil producer in the world? Well that's what's happening in Australia with gas. We're one of the largest producers in the world, we should have the lowest gas prices/electricity prices. We can thank the left and greens of successive governments for the path we're on.

I trust people haven't forgotten the increase in excise coming back in September. I'm expecting fuel prices to sit around $2.75/$3/L for 98 come end of this year.

[LG17]

$2.41 in town today for diesel and $2.17 for 91 and the businesses in town wonder why locals aren't going to town and spending money...

[martyk54]

Originally Posted by LG17

$2.41 in town today for diesel and $2.17 for 91 and the businesses in town wonder why locals aren't going to town and spending money...

37% of diesel cost is tax (government). They printed money for 2 years, they can lower the price whenever they like.

And yes, I'll continue working from home and saving myself $120 a week in fuel cost.

[MITCHAY]

I filled up yesterday. I think it was the first time ever I had to use a PIN >$100) with 4c/lt discount to pay. Not even a full tank, 3/4 at best for 98.

Assuming that the full 22c excise discount is actually passed on, it's going to be a lot worse as mentioned above in September.

Not everyone knows about it but it was always a sunset so a bit of a nice little wedge setup right there

As for gas, that predictably went up but my electricity went down so that's good. The gas issue is a farce, we don't reserve enough for our own use but it's taking the **** with what we get back in export revenue.

They'd just flog more offshore if they opened it up more, I'm not convinced it would help us domestically either in supply or revenue regardless of government. We are so dumb when it comes to our natural resources.