Carbon Tax.Its a BIG Con!!!

[TheInterceptor]

We do need Carbon to live. More importantly, our civilisation needs oil to survive.

I beleive oil is very much running out and it is critical that the govornment shift their focus from taxing us for the umpteenth time to looking into a replacement for oil.

Here's a thought. If theres no oil, how are we going to eat? Trucks cant deliver to Woolworths/Safeway. Hell there wont even be food to deliver since we import just about everything from OS, and plane's/ship's need oil to run.

And another. Wont even be many clothes around, polyester for starters, is made from oil, plastics are made from oil...

Thats just a sliver of it. We as a nation are going to fail if govco dont begin to change their priorities.

Food for thought.

[snappy]

sudzy tell me what good this carbon tax will bring ?
We have been over the negatives many times in this thread but no positives that i can remember .
My personal view is it more about wealth redistribution then the environment
and its implementation through last election is borderline on treason

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by snappy

sudzy tell me what good this carbon tax will bring ?
We have been over the negatives many times in this thread but no positives that i can remember .
My personal view is it more about wealth redistribution then the environment
and its implementation through last election is borderline on treason

Unfortunately, the issue of what happens if we dont reduce co2 emissions is lost on people here, they are only worried about how much it will cost? Its about as stupid as people complaining about having to take time off work to get treatment for cancer.

1. By taking what is really a small step we can lead in stopping the world from the path of self destruction that is occuring.

2. Australia can adjust its processes to a low carbon future and be innovators and actually profit from that innovation rather than being left behind with coal that no-one will touch and no other way of making a living for ourselves.

[TheInterceptor]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Unfortunately, the issue of what happens if we dont reduce co2 emissions is lost on people here, they are only worried about how much it will cost? Its about as stupid as people complaining about having to take time off work to get treatment for cancer.

1. By taking what is really a small step we can lead in stopping the world from the path of self destruction that is occuring.

2. Australia can adjust its processes to a low carbon future and be innovators and actually profit from that innovation rather than being left behind with coal that no-one will touch and no other way of making a living for ourselves.

We will remain on this until we find/harness a sustainable and practical replacement for OIL.

Which wont happen cos its COSTS MONEY unlike the tax which RAISES MONEY.

Hell we cant eat money nor run our cars on it!

[gs1973]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Unfortunately, the issue of what happens if we dont reduce co2 emissions is lost on people here, they are only worried about how much it will cost? Its about as stupid as people complaining about having to take time off work to get treatment for cancer.

1. By taking what is really a small step we can lead in stopping the world from the path of self destruction that is occuring.

2. Australia can adjust its processes to a low carbon future and be innovators and actually profit from that innovation rather than being left behind with coal that no-one will touch and no other way of making a living for ourselves.

This is a serious question.. No mucking about.. Are you a Government plant? I would be up Mizz Gillard for a payrise if so? Come clean, do you sometimes answer to Penny?

[gs1973]

Originally Posted by gs1973

This is a serious question.. No mucking about.. Are you a Government plant? I would be up Mizz Gillard for a payrise if so? Come clean, do you sometimes answer to Penny?

Answer please? And on record I do not Condone the Cat noises you were subject too last week

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Unfortunately, the issue of what happens if we dont reduce co2 emissions is lost on people here, they are only worried about how much it will cost? Its about as stupid as people complaining about having to take time off work to get treatment for cancer.

Careful making statements like this ..... it underminds some intelligent things you may have said above. Silly comparisons. Of course everyone is worried about the cost ..... everything has a price and if the outcome does not justify the cost then there is a line where it is not required! At present, and even you have stated .... the outcome isnt clear and as far as I can see is pie in the sky stuff. To compare to cancer is very far off.

Originally Posted by sudszy

1. By taking what is really a small step we can lead in stopping the world from the path of self destruction that is occuring..

It is such a small step ....minute in fact on a world scale. It is not Australia's role to lead the world and I am not in a position to do it. Do not over estimate the power of Aus ...... it is insignificant.

Originally Posted by sudszy

2. Australia can adjust its processes to a low carbon future and be innovators and actually profit from that innovation rather than being left behind with coal that no-one will touch and no other way of making a living for ourselves.

Innovators at what cost?? YES it comes down to cost and always will as this is a new TAX. It is about the money .... remember it is a tax. Sales of coal will always be there. Taxed here but sent overseas by the boat full. For them to be serious ....... they should stop the export of coal tomorrow. It doesn't matter about the loss of income because Carbon should be stopped ..... "At any cost .... " This would make a dent in world carbon emissions?

Profit from the innovation?

Wind farms in my back yard? No!

Anyone got any spare caves I can move into? Cant light a fire though to keep warm as I cant afford the tax on the amount of carbon I release.

[gs1973]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Innovators at what cost?? YES it comes down to cost and always will as this is a new TAX. It is about the money .... remember it is a tax. Sales of coal will always be there. Taxed here but sent overseas by the boat full. For them to be serious ....... they should stop the export of coal tomorrow. It doesn't matter because Carbon should be stopped ..... "At any cost .... "

Profit from the innovation?

Wind farms in my back yard? No!

Exactly, and what I have said to people on the subject before. If it's not about the money, stop sending millions of tons of Coal to China! If you are a believer in Man made climate change or not, this is a Money raising TAX by a big $$ wasting Government that should have announced it before the last election.. Everyone berated Howard for the GST, but at least he had the Balls to take it too an Election.. Once again I ask (considering this is a thread on a Carbon tax) What is it going to achieve other than propping up an EXTREMELY INCOMPETENT Government's Coffers?

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by gs1973

. If it's not about the money, stop sending millions of tons of Coal to China!

No argument from me the best signal they could send the Chinese is to charge them the carbon tax as well or insist they properly collect the co2 and dispose of it or no coal, but I bet if the govco even hinted at it, you'd be hollering louder than you are right now.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

To compare to cancer is very far off.

Really, we are talking survival here....very related, its more than just building a sea wall, its about how agriculture will survive, rain fall, which pests prosper, changing crops etc.......its about survival.

[snappy]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Really, we are talking survival here....very related, its more than just building a sea wall, its about how agriculture will survive, rain fall, which pests prosper, changing crops etc.......its about survival.

Exactly now how does taxing our best asset help us survive , Just to be clear cheap and abundent power is our best asset .

On one hand we have this government selling coal and planning on increasing the sale of it , But with the other hand they are saying coal is evil dont use
it .

We would be better of putting a tax in to spend on infrastructure .An aim to be the farming nation or food bowl of the worls and reduse our emmisions that way

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Really, we are talking survival here....very related, its more than just building a sea wall, its about how agriculture will survive, rain fall, which pests prosper, changing crops etc.......its about survival.

No you are so very wrong on this and sorry but you cannot convince me otherwise

Cancer: Out of 1328 people, 1132 people have survived 100% after taking this pill. (Insert what ever figure you want and treatment but in simplistic terms there is an absolute outcome compared to doing nothing)

Climate Tax: Everyone pays a magical number and the carbon might go down, stay where it is, keep rising, kill us all, have no effect, change sea levels, sky falls in .... no one knows what will happen. All I know is some will be richer, most will be poorer for no end result.

This is Australia we are talking about! It would have the same effect as if they banned farts .... which would be a hell of a lot cheaper!

Can just see India, China and the rest saying ... Australia is doing it, we better damn well do it too or they wont like us anymore ........
-(Thats China rolling on the floor)

[snappy]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Unfortunately, the issue of what happens if we dont reduce co2 emissions is lost on people here, they are only worried about how much it will cost? Its about as stupid as people complaining about having to take time off work to get treatment for cancer.

1. By taking what is really a small step we can lead in stopping the world from the path of self destruction that is occuring.

2. Australia can adjust its processes to a low carbon future and be innovators and actually profit from that innovation rather than being left behind with coal that no-one will touch and no other way of making a living for ourselves.

well to be fair when you say the consequences are lost on people on here
the government's climate commission has stated seas will rise buy 1m in 100 years . It would be cheaper to build a 1.5 metre sea wall in populated area's
then to do what they propose . As you would know many peer reviewed scientist state we may be better of learning to deal with the problems then to address them because some think we cant reverse what is happening in time .

[mcnews]

Okay so the lah lah fingers in ears disciples actually do support action on climate change as long as it's not a tax :-)
(big business might not pay mouthpieces like that old fairy Jones millions to campaign against that and suck in the gullible too so it might get up....)

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by mcnews

Okay so the lah lah fingers in ears disciples actually do support action on climate change as long as it's not a tax :-)
(big business might not pay mouthpieces like that old fairy Jones millions to campaign against that and suck in the gullible too so it might get up....)

And the lah lah fingers in ears disciples from the Church of Climatology do support action on carbon change at any cost with no specific benefit?

Actually BHP and the others do support a tax on carbon ..... why????? Because they can push prices up which means more profit with a big tick from the g'ment. Great stuff ain't it

[Auslandau]

Lindzen is the saviour and Monckton is the devil ..... it is a matter of what religion you want to follow I suppose and whether you want to be one of the flock or would rather wait for the facts on the matter and then make up your mind.

I prefer to ask "At what cost" rather than "At any cost" ..... especially when the outcome is still very much a myth. If we did things because the g'ment says we should without being asked on matters such as these when the opposite was stated before the last election ..... I suppose that comes down to living in a dictatorship. We aren't there just yet, close it seems ..... but an issue as important as this deserves an election.

[Polyal]

The point is by introducing a carbon tax it does not achieve any lowering in emissions...the cost is just passed on to the unlucky person at the end of the chain.

Will I suddenly turn off my PS3, projector, PC, laptop, Ipad etc etc because of a tax? No...and I reckon that would be the same for the majority out there.

So in the end my emissions stay the same but I am paying a tax I wasnt before, and for what?

[Auslandau]

While things do get a little emotional ....... can we please stick with the topic as close as possible with out any name calling. Calling others hypocrites and morons dont help the conversation .....

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

While things do get a little emotional ....... can we please stick with the topic as close as possible with out any name calling. Calling others hypocrites and morons dont help the conversation .....

Sorry, but people taking Alan Jones seriously.... Come on..... That can't be allowed through to the keeper :-) That should be permanent ban material, lol

[snappy]

. By taking what is really a small step we can lead in stopping the world from the path of self destruction that is occuring.

Australia is not the world we have a smaller population then some cities .
taxing our productivity and not taxing imports is only punishing us not the rest of the world , So this tax is not sending any message to the world except send your stuff here well buy it because ours is to expensive .

2. Australia can adjust its processes to a low carbon future and be innovators and actually profit from that innovation rather than being left behind with coal that no-one will touch and no other way of making a living for ourselves

No way known australia will never ever be able to compete with china hell even germany is struggling we have no hope that a fact any expert will tell you that . Best we can hope for is they will buy and mass produce our inventions

[Full Noise]

Sudszy, if you are so Hell bent on saving the planet with a carbon dioxide tax and actively want everyone to reduce their carbon dioxide footprint, why don’t you lead by example and turn off your computer?

[Ben73]

If you turn off your TV for 5 minutes and look up Climate Change on other sources, you will see there is just as much information disproving climate change as there is supporting it.


1. Climate change real = Environmental scientists stay in their job. Pollies win votes. Government makes millions from taxes. Greenies happy

2 Climate change not real = Environmental scientists lose job, Pollies can't use it to win votes, Government makes NO money off taxes. Greenies unhappy.

You can see why the government and media try so hard to convince us all Man made Climate change is real.


Climate change is real.... Its called the earths natural cycle. One day the earth will begin to cool again.
I guess they covered that when they changed the propaganda from Global Warming to Climate Change.

[Dr Jekkyl]

The level of anti-intellectual sentiment on display in this thread is frightening.

Really though, is this unexpeced?

Perhaps these people are so wise as to know that imposition of any carbon abatement program is a futile endeavour because living in a quarry is ***** either way?

[Thornie]

Originally Posted by Ben73

If you turn off your TV for 5 minutes and look up Climate Change on other sources, you will see there is just as much information disproving climate change as there is supporting it.


1. Climate change real = Environmental scientists stay in their job. Pollies win votes. Government makes millions from taxes. Greenies happy

2 Climate change not real = Environmental scientists lose job, Pollies can't use it to win votes, Government makes NO money off taxes. Greenies unhappy.

You can see why the government and media try so hard to convince us all Man made Climate change is real.


Climate change is real.... Its called the earths natural cycle. One day the earth will begin to cool again.
I guess they covered that when they changed the propaganda from Global Warming to Climate Change.

No, no, no this can't be true at all because the internet says so.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Ben73

I guess they covered that when they changed the propaganda from Global Warming to Climate Change.

Yes Ben, very popular rhetoric from the denialists that you have swallowed hook line and sinker.

The two expressions have always been in use, scientists generally referring to climate change. But do you understand the connection?, climate change is a result of global warming.

Of course if you listen to Alan Jones/ Andrew Bolt commentaries they will tell you that climate change is being used as the world is no longer warming.

Ive yet to see a government or institution that even 20 years ago, talked about a "global warming" policy, but dont let that stop the denialist rhetoric.

The main thrust by many to refer to climate change is that many out there are so simple that when they hear the term "global warming" they think, "oh a couple of degrees warmer, that will be nice", whereas changes to climate can conjure up in even the most simple that the changes may not be all good.

Originally Posted by Ben73

Climate change is real.... Its called the earths natural cycle. One day the earth will begin to cool again.

Unfortunately Ben, no one scientist on the planet has been able to produce any evidence of any natural cycle or phenomenon that explains the warming we are seeing at this time. (no we are not experiencing extra solar activity). The best science rests with it is the 40% increase in co2 that man has put up there.
But if you know better as to what natural phenomenon is causing it now that the world's best have overlooked, please let the world know, then we can all get back to business as usual

[jandj]

Can some1 please explain to me how there are going to work out, how much carbon each company is going to emit.

[landau460]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Yes Ben, very popular rhetoric from the denialists that you have swallowed hook line and sinker.

The two expressions have always been in use, scientists generally referring to climate change. But do you understand the connection?, climate change is a result of global warming.

Of course if you listen to Alan Jones/ Andrew Bolt commentaries they will tell you that climate change is being used as the world is no longer warming.

Ive yet to see a government or institution that even 20 years ago, talked about a "global warming" policy, but dont let that stop the denialist rhetoric.

The main thrust by many to refer to climate change is that many out there are so simple that when they hear the term "global warming" they think, "oh a couple of degrees warmer, that will be nice", whereas changes to climate can conjure up in even the most simple that the changes may not be all good.


Unfortunately Ben, no one scientist on the planet has been able to produce any evidence of any natural cycle or phenomenon that explains the warming we are seeing at this time. (no we are not experiencing extra solar activity). The best science rests with it is the 40% increase in co2 that man has put up there.
But if you know better as to what natural phenomenon is causing it now that the world's best have overlooked, please let the world know, then we can all get back to business as usual

And sudzy no one scientist has 100% proof about global warming/climate change what ever you want to call it but they want to take my money on their theory? lol you could take this discussion for or against but they still want my money their only changing the name inwhich to take it with. Come on sudzy gimme real proof.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Yes Ben, very popular rhetoric from the denialists that you have swallowed hook line and sinker.

The two expressions have always been in use, scientists generally referring to climate change. But do you understand the connection?, climate change is a result of global warming.

Of course if you listen to Alan Jones/ Andrew Bolt commentaries they will tell you that climate change is being used as the world is no longer warming.

Ive yet to see a government or institution that even 20 years ago, talked about a "global warming" policy, but dont let that stop the denialist rhetoric.

The main thrust by many to refer to climate change is that many out there are so simple that when they hear the term "global warming" they think, "oh a couple of degrees warmer, that will be nice", whereas changes to climate can conjure up in even the most simple that the changes may not be all good.


Unfortunately Ben, no one scientist on the planet has been able to produce any evidence of any natural cycle or phenomenon that explains the warming we are seeing at this time. (no we are not experiencing extra solar activity). The best science rests with it is the 40% increase in co2 that man has put up there.
But if you know better as to what natural phenomenon is causing it now that the world's best have overlooked, please let the world know, then we can all get back to business as usual

I didn't just wake up one day and say "Climate change is not man made"

I used to believe all the crap the government and media said about climate change. I used to believe we are ruining the world. I remember when this guy in my school was talking about how it is a load of crap. Almost everyone else in the class, including me thought he was an idiot because in school and through the media we are told we are ruining the earth.
But then I decided to look it up myself. I used all different sources and from what evidence I found, I changed my opinion that it is not man made.

If you were a environmental scientist and the government hired you to research global warming and gave you millions of dollars in research grants, would you tell them what they want to hear? Of course you would.
That is why I trust the research of scientist who are not relying on a government paycheck.


Thing I find funny about the environuts is as soon as you tell them that you think global warming is natural and nothing but a hype, they basically put their fingers in their ears, close their eyes and yell BLAH BLAH I CANT HEAR YOU I AM RIGHT YOU ARE WRONG!!!

[Dr Jekkyl]

Originally Posted by Ben73

That is why I trust the research of scientist who are not relying on a government paycheck.

So who is funding these scientists you mention? They sure as hell aren't paying for it themselves.

Oh and while we are scientist-bashing, did you hear that cancer is just a government plot to fund Medicare? Not surprising though is it because the scientists researching it get their funding from the government.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Dr Jekkyl

Oh and while we are scientist-bashing, did you hear that cancer is just a government plot to fund Medicare? Not surprising though is it because the scientists researching it get their funding from the government.

Stupidest comparison of the year. .

Everyone knows someone who is affected with cancer in some way. Cancer is a prove medical condition that I'm sure 99% of people would agree with.

Global warming is not proven. Its has as much evidence denying it then it has supporting it.

No one is scientist bashing.