Hsv Announces 6.2 L Ls3 317 Kw

[Wally]

Originally Posted by gozza

yes - i saw a stock Maloo do a mid 13 or there abouts -

No wheelspin - Either he was launching it perfect and they were slow - or he wasn't launching hard enough

Why does a driver having a bad day with his ETs give you so much delight? Either it was a perfect launch as you say, in which case he shiould be congratulated or it wasn't which is also what you say, in which case it would be a hollow victory for the opponent, driver skill aside.

British Magazine Autocar 2006 1 mile London Airport

Mercedes McLaren SLR 282.7 km/h
Ford GT 280.4 km/h
Corvette Z06 268 km/h
Porsche Turbo 261.6 km/h
BMW M6 261.5 km/h
Holden (HSV) Maloo 258.7 km/h
Shelby Daytona Cobra 257 km/h
Bentley Flying Spur 253.2 km/h
Alpina B5 250 km/h

[Mighty Reds]

There is no way a HSV Maloo is that close to either the Porsche 911 Turbo or Corvette ZO6.

Was it stock?.

[loltastic]

Originally Posted by Wally

Why does a driver having a bad day with his ETs give you so much delight? Either it was a perfect launch as you say, in which case he shiould be congratulated or it wasn't which is also what you say, in which case it would be a hollow victory for the opponent, driver skill aside.

British Magazine Autocar 2006 1 mile London Airport

Mercedes McLaren SLR 282.7 km/h
Ford GT 280.4 km/h
Corvette Z06 268 km/h
Porsche Turbo 261.6 km/h
BMW M6 261.5 km/h
Holden (HSV) Maloo 258.7 km/h
Shelby Daytona Cobra 257 km/h
Bentley Flying Spur 253.2 km/h
Alpina B5 250 km/h

I'm very dubious of those numbers. If you watch the following clip you'll see why.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallp...AR=232030&CT=V

VE HSV gets stomped by new M3, Lexus ISF and Merc C63. 911 Turbo, M6 are both much faster cars than the BMW, Lexus and Merc.

[Wally]

I guess you need to take up the dubious figures with Autocar magazine. I wasn't there.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Quad cams are not the future! They're actually older then OHV Pushrod technology, dating back to 1912 vs around 1917. There's nothing new about them. There's nothing 'better,' about them. They both use the same, limited capability, flawed, poppet valve design. Both have too many moving parts, consume too much oil, are too big, are too heavy and are easily replaced with camless technology like rotary valves. Century old technology being clung on-to by car manufacturers.

In terms of being used in cheap mass production vehicles, OHC is a lot newer technology. OHC might be older but say pre 80's only expensive supercars, racecars and expensive luxury vehicles used them. Now just about probably 95% of vehicles on the market use OHC's, so using that analogy is a little irrelevent from a mass use of technology point of view.

Camless technology may be the future but it sure isn't the present, the only things I can think of that uses this technology are F1 cars and maybe the Superbikes. I know either MB or BMW have been working on it for years but i'd imagine it will take a very long time before its viable for production due to durability and production costs. F1 engines only have to last around 1000km before they need a rebuild.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Need_a_V8

And how much does a crate engine from AMG cost? Compare that to $6-$7k for an LS3 out the crate... BIG DIFFERENCE!

Its not all about tech tech tech! Pushrod is cost effective!

The LS3 in correct tune should be good for 330kw with still alot of room to move. Not this detuned 317kw crap. 330kw 6.2L LS3 for $6-7k out the crate compared to 378kw AMG engine for what? 20k+? The LS7 is cheaper than the AMG engine and again with an alright tune as seen in the CSV's its good for 400kw at the fly, if not more.

Compare the price of the W427 and the C63 AMG, they will sell for around the same price, the C63 is 139k, and the HSV is supposed to be over 130k, and then look at how much extra luxury equipment you would get in a C63, but then again the HSV is a bigger car.

The reason the AMG engine would be so pricey is that for the first time AMG have designed their own engine from the ground up that isn't just a modified MB engine like they had done in the past. The LS7 is just a modified LS2.

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

In terms of being used in cheap mass production vehicles, OHC is a lot newer technology. OHC might be older but say pre 80's only expensive supercars, racecars and expensive luxury vehicles used them. Now just about probably 95% of vehicles on the market use OHC's, so using that analogy is a little irrelevent from a mass use of technology point of view.

Camless technology may be the future but it sure isn't the present, the only things I can think of that uses this technology are F1 cars and maybe the Superbikes. I know either MB or BMW have been working on it for years but i'd imagine it will take a very long time before its viable for production due to durability and production costs. F1 engines only have to last around 1000km before they need a rebuild.

Pre 80s only expensive stuff had OHC?

Peugeot 205, Volkswagen Polo, Volkswagen Golf, a variety of crappy Jap economy cars etc etc. These all had OHC, either single or twin cam, in the 70s.

They're just as old as each other, both in inception and application.

Camless technology is very available and viable...

http://www.coatesengine.com

I'd love to get a hold of their 302... 260 -> 450hp with swap to CSRV. Spun 14,000rpm and was driven for 250,000 miles on the street to prove durability.

[Nikked]

Internal combustion is old too! New GT should Be a hybrid with 2 x Flux capacitors, powered buy peace of mind.

[mcnews]

In MotoGP a couple of the teams have switched to pneumatic valves but are having some teething problems. The most successful of the motors is the Ducati donk with desmodromic valves, that system has a rocker to open the valve and a rocker to close the valve with no valve spring. (The street motors have a ****y valve spring to help keep things safe at really low rpm but they are junked for racing). The 990cc motors were making more than 250hp and the new 800cc donks I think are around 220-230 at the moment.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Need_a_V8

330kw 6.2L LS3 for $6-7k out the crate compared to 378kw AMG engine for what? 20k+? The LS7 is cheaper than the AMG engine and again with an alright tune as seen in the CSV's its good for 400kw at the fly, if not more.

More like $75k+ for the AMG engine.
$20k would be lucky to buy you the base C-Class 1.8 Supercharged 4 cyl :

[mikestp]

any 1 else sick of holden 'borrowing' a bigger and bigger engine from chev each year in an effort to sell their cars?

[tex]

Ford spares quoted me 17k for a new Boss 260.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Pre 80s only expensive stuff had OHC?

Peugeot 205, Volkswagen Polo, Volkswagen Golf, a variety of crappy Jap economy cars etc etc. These all had OHC, either single or twin cam, in the 70s.

They're just as old as each other, both in inception and application.

Camless technology is very available and viable...

http://www.coatesengine.com

I'd love to get a hold of their 302... 260 -> 450hp with swap to CSRV. Spun 14,000rpm and was driven for 250,000 miles on the street to prove durability.

But isn't the advantage of OHC the ability to utilise variable cam timing thus improving performance? I don't know if there are any OHV motors with VCT??? Thanks for the link.

Originally Posted by mikestp

any 1 else sick of holden 'borrowing' a bigger and bigger engine from chev each year in an effort to sell their cars?

Actually I don't mind, since it pushes Ford to do something about it. We the consumers are the winners. Due to this we can order a 290kW V8 or 270kW turbo for about $46k despite inflation... go back ten years and $50k was the asking price for an EL XR8 (185kW). Competition improves the breed hasn't been truer.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by mikestp

any 1 else sick of holden 'borrowing' a bigger and bigger engine from chev each year in an effort to sell their cars?

Its all GM, just like Ford Aus borrowed the Windsor and Clevo from the US.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

But isn't the advantage of OHC the ability to utilise variable cam timing thus improving performance? I don't know if there are any OHV motors with VCT??? Thanks for the link.

GMs 6.0L Vortec engine has VCT, it also has cylinder deactivation
http://www.chevrolet.com/pop/silvera...tec_max_en.jsp

[VZKOOP]

Interesting thread - but as many have pointed out - totally useless until the new FPV is released. On the face of it and over the last few models HSV have had the car to beat. Prior to E-Series the HSV was fastest in a straight line and close to equal as f*&k is to swearing as a daily driver. The E-Series HSV's are streets ahead of the current offering from FPV. The only thing that FPV can claim as better is the A6. I must say I am blown away by how good the gearbox is in my F6 compared to the A6 I had in the Senator. But that is really the only thing I can honestly say is better.
Still it's all about the package, as others have said as well, and the new FPV may be able to gain that title back - we shall see.

[Need_a_V8]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Compare the price of the W427 and the C63 AMG, they will sell for around the same price, the C63 is 139k, and the HSV is supposed to be over 130k, and then look at how much extra luxury equipment you would get in a C63, but then again the HSV is a bigger car.

The reason the AMG engine would be so pricey is that for the first time AMG have designed their own engine from the ground up that isn't just a modified MB engine like they had done in the past. The LS7 is just a modified LS2.

The C63 is 336kw and $139,500. The W427 should be 125k, 130k max and has 370kw... The C63 may be luxury to the max, but there is plenty in the W427 to justify its price... Such as 385mm front rotors with 6 piston calipers...MRC suspension etc. But the argument isnt about what you get for the price, its what ENGINE you get for the price.

All Mercedes and AMG V8's will cost ATLEAST 4x what the LS3 will or ATLEAST 2x the price of the LS7.

[loltastic]

Comparing a Holden to a Mercedes, in particular a C63 to a HSV is stupid. It's a bit like saying "why would I wanna have sex with a gorgeous lingerie model when my mum has the same bits, she'll do" It's about the quality boys. Sure your mum might be alright, but really. Come on.

[Wally]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

But isn't the advantage of OHC the ability to utilise variable cam timing thus improving performance? .......
..........

No. The basic premis is that pushrod engines have a heavier valve train and therefore are inherently rev limited compared to an equivalent OHC. Pushrods also flex, so agressive cam profiles are limited. They are cheaper to produce (less head casting intricacies) and power limitations are corrected by increasing displacement.... which, although maybe no heavier or physically larger, does traditionally result in poorer fuel economy.

OHC does make multivalve application easier, which means the valve area to bore area ratios are potentially better and thus reciprocating mass lower with lower lift requirements. VE is better, specific power increases, redline increases, usable power range increases, etc.

OHC are generally taller, which can be a problem with centre of gravity making the engine lurch under heavy acceleration, but that's no biggy to solve using strut braces and engine restrainers.

[Angeldust]

Originally Posted by Need_a_V8

The C63 is 336kw and $139,500. The W427 should be 125k, 130k max and has 370kw... The C63 may be luxury to the max, but there is plenty in the W427 to justify its price... Such as 385mm front rotors with 6 piston calipers...MRC suspension etc. But the argument isnt about what you get for the price, its what ENGINE you get for the price.

All Mercedes and AMG V8's will cost ATLEAST 4x what the LS3 will or ATLEAST 2x the price of the LS7.

cheapest 6.2 AMG is the CLK63AMG at $199,100 (Wheels dec 07)

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Compare the price of the W427 and the C63 AMG, they will sell for around the same price, the C63 is 139k, and the HSV is supposed to be over 130k, and then look at how much extra luxury equipment you would get in a C63, but then again the HSV is a bigger car.

The reason the AMG engine would be so pricey is that for the first time AMG have designed their own engine from the ground up that isn't just a modified MB engine like they had done in the past. The LS7 is just a modified LS2.

Can't wait to see one these AMG beasts on our roads, it will be an absolute rocket!!

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Angeldust

cheapest 6.2 AMG is the CLK63AMG at $199,100 (Wheels dec 07)

That's because the C63 is not out here yet.

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by Angeldust

cheapest 6.2 AMG is the CLK63AMG at $199,100 (Wheels dec 07)

The C63 is now on sale in Aus for (as stated above) $139,500, a relative bargain when you consider what you're getting for the cash...

6.2L DOHC V8
336kW@6800rpm
600Nm@5200rpm
7-speed AMG Speedshift
1730kg
360mm/330mm 6 piston brakes
0-100kph in 4.5sec
13.4L/100 fuel economy
plus all the usual Merc stuff

DMS Automotive here in Aus has already made a flash tune for the C63 which will take outputs to 366kW/660Nm...that's 211kW/tonne!!

[Aldo]

Is this a very successfull april fools?
I just had a look at the dates of the first post.

[4Vman]

More stupid comparisons... the C class is a mid sized vehicle, if you want to compare similar sized vehicles then its the E class you should be comparing W427 stats with...
Oh.. its going to be more than 150k too..

[XR8putts]

Theres nothing midsized about the C Class nowadays.

The comparison between the C63 and W427 is a valid one, but I can't believe there's anyone out there stupid enough to chose the latter one!

The C63 is pure horn and has everything you could ever want. The HSV is just a big engine in a still, very ugly body and with half the features.

My 2c worth anywho.

[4Vman]

HSV only need to find 100 people a year who want a large Australian 4 door sedan with above average premium performance and are willing to spend around 160K... i don't think its going to be a huge ask myself..

[Wally]

There was an article in the paper today that the 427 Commodore is a goer and will be hand assembled with a base cost $130k. They're expectimg to produce four a week.

[flappist]

Remember the mines are FULL of cashed up baby bogans.

Just check which are the biggest selling HSV dealers....

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by puts99

Theres nothing midsized about the C Class nowadays.

The comparison between the C63 and W427 is a valid one, but I can't believe there's anyone out there stupid enough to chose the latter one!

The C63 is pure horn and has everything you could ever want. The HSV is just a big engine in a still, very ugly body and with half the features.

My 2c worth anywho.

The C63 is just a car with a big engine. So is the W427's actual competitor, the E63 AMG. Remember, these are just German taxi's. They just have some kind of badge aura here...