5 young men killed in high speed crash. - Page 6

SM1DY · 17-01-2010, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

No single initiative will work in isolation... education is fine but its already happening, you also cant educate unintelligent people who dont care, its like trying to convince a Ford fanatic Holden is better....

I'm not going to pretend that it's the perfect solution, but as we've all seen, there's no silver bullet to answer this problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XCPWSF

They took a shot at my school and failed badly.

I'm adamant that this is the best step, ideally it should be the implemented into all high schools and a prerequisite to be intergrated into their studies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Full Noise

How do you educate someone with a head thicker than a lump of bluestone?

They may be idiots, but I don't think that you should give up on them, I'm under no illusion that this will stop it completely, but at the very least, it will save a few lives.

4Vman · 17-01-2010, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 84ltd

Just to clarify that statement for everyone an accident implies nobody is at fault. In every single incident somebody has always been at fault in some way.

That is very true... there are very few accidents on our roads... 99.9999% are incidents where somebody did the wrong thing...

g220ba · 17-01-2010, 09:45 PM

For me it starts with parents and is then enforced by the schools.

4Vman · 17-01-2010, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SM1DY

I'm not going to pretend that it's the perfect solution, but as we've all seen, there's no silver bullet to answer this problem.

I'm adamant that this is the best step, ideally it should be the implemented into all high schools and a prerequisite to be intergrated into their studies.

They may be idiots, but I don't think that you should give up on them, I'm under no illusion that this will stop it completely, but at the very least, it will save a few lives.

So what exactly are you going to tell them or teach them that a) they arent already aware of and b) isnt already taught at school or plastered all over the media?

davocol · 17-01-2010, 09:46 PM

Spot on Rodderz, there are idiots in real life and this will translate to people behind the wheel. Just as much as you can stop idiots breeding you can stop idiots driving.

All you can really do is pray that these people don't end up running into you, don't trust green lights, don't trust that the person is not going to turn in front of you and don't trust that car is not about to change lanes right into you and if they do protect yourself in the safest car you can possibly buy. The tough part is going to be when I finally have a kid who is old enough to drive, I will be a bloody nervous wreck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodderz

My theory is that it's not just driver behaviour in general that needs to be changed, it's their everyday behaviour too. There are plenty of crap drivers around, but are smart, so they don't drive like idiots.

Think of the idiots you put up with at work or in life in general. The ones that think they are always right, the king of the castle or those that reckon they can do anything. Now put them behind a wheel of a car- will they be any different? Most times not. It seems most of the drivers involved in crashes are too confidant, or ignore any threats that are right before them.

Behaviour of people as a whole needs to be changed, not just for driving but everything else as well.

satria · 17-01-2010, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The police cant be everywhere all the time, this happened at 2am.
These idiots just try to out run the police anyway, they see it as a game.
We'll probably find out the driver was outside of his passenger restrictions and car power restrictions too...
No amount of rules, training, camera's etc will stop this, only parental/peer/community pressure will.

i like here how you have a solution to end these tragedies but only a couple posts earlier you say you don't know the solution to end them. I will dismiss your comment about tightening road laws right about now.

4Vman · 17-01-2010, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satria

i like here how you have a solution to end these tragedies but only a couple posts earlier you say you don't know the solution to end them. I will dismiss your comment about tightening road laws right about now.

Ive got no idea what you're on about... if you read what i posted you'll see i was pointing out that these incidents are the reason the govt is making the laws tighter and tighter.... its an observation not a suggestion....

BENT_8 · 17-01-2010, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by satria

i like here how you have a solution to end these tragedies but only a couple posts earlier you say you don't know the solution to end them. I will dismiss your comment about tightening road laws right about now.

I believe what Norm is saying is that educating people at school wont always stop this behaviour.
It has to start much earlier than this and comes from parenting and general attitude towards this carry on.
People need to know that it is unacceptable from a young age.

SM1DY · 17-01-2010, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

So what exactly are you going to tell them or teach them that a) they arent already aware of and b) isnt already taught at school or plastered all over the media?

I don't have a clue what I would say, but I'm sure a group like TAC would. I'm not going to pretend that I have the magic touch required to curb the toll, but if they implement a program on a large scale and it fails to make a dent in the number of fatalities on the road, then I'll be the first to say that I was wrong.

It's not a problem if people don't agree with me in this instances, just as long as they can appreciate that I'm offering a option and not just knocking holes in a theory.

XR6_661 · 17-01-2010, 10:05 PM

http://www.news.com.au/national/gall...0479698?page=1

4Vman · 17-01-2010, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SM1DY

I don't have a clue what I would say, but I'm sure a group like TAC would. I'm not going to pretend that I have the magic touch required to curb the toll, but if they implement a program on a large scale and it fails to make a dent in the number of fatalities on the road, then I'll be the first to say that I was wrong.

It's not a problem if people don't agree with me in this instances, just as long as they can appreciate that I'm offering a option and not just knocking holes in a theory.

Im not knocking your idea, because everything helps, i was just genuinely interested in what you propose the education would contain as you seem to strongly believe it will help, that's all.

drew`SEVNT5 · 17-01-2010, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodderz

I vaguely remember hearing a few sirens last night, we were still up that time last night as we are a few km's south of where it happened. Last year a similar crash was at the same spot, it was a Falcon XT or similar model, dead straight bit of road, large intersection and lined with big oaks/elms whatever they are each side. To break such a large trunked tree shows the speed at which they were going. The area is always full of young hoons too

Speed cameras wouldnt have changed the mindset of this driver, it only annoys them that they get caught and lose some dollars. They need to start from the beginning

Correct...

Im about 1km away from there, as the crow flies...

and yep, its a constant background soundtrack of V8's, spooling turbos, blowoff valves/flutter and wheelspin...

All the time...

Its a damn shame, but some people just can't be taught....

I knew I couldn't.... Only way I slowed down, was in steps, and only when stuff went wrong...

Car over the side of the Reefton at 19 got me to stop going so hard down roads I don't know, Car into a pole at 20 told me that I was never gunna be a pro drifter and to stop practising in wet industrial estates... etc etc....

And you never stop learning either... Last year I learnt that driving the XR6T with the TC turned off, whilst on cold and flu meds and sick as buggery (therefore not at my sharpest and not paying enough attention to boot) can go very wrong very quick. Like $14k worth of wrong. (hit kerb, spun into fence)

Stay safe out there, everyone....

partzkid · 17-01-2010, 10:13 PM

Just want to say RIP to Stevie, Ben and Will. All 3 of you were a riot and will be sorely missed. The others involved and families i stretch my condolences to you also.

partzkid

SM1DY · 17-01-2010, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Im not knocking your idea, because everything helps, i was just genuinely interested in what you propose the education would contain as you seem to strongly believe it will help, that's all.

I could only suggest the the best way to get through to people is the same way I was reached. My mother is a nurse and before I got my L's, she took my sister and myself to critical care and rehab units of her hospital (She used the same tactic used to keep us from smoking). It's one thing to see graphic commercials on television of people in wheelchairs, but it's nothing like being exposed to it first hand. That coupled with, things like driver training and schooling programs could make a big difference.

Also, I'm not implying that your criticizing the idea of this, just the it's hard to remain enthusiastic about some things when you don't see the same spirit in other people.

GT · 17-01-2010, 10:31 PM

Today I unexpectedly shed tears after beginning to read this thread. Took me three goes to get though the whole thread - I just kept logging off to try and get myself together. It really knocked me and I can only say that perhaps it is because I am a mother.

One set of parents sat today numb that they had lost their 2 beautiful sons (not one child - TWO) - no doubt so shocked and distressed hoping they will wake up from this horror.

Another mother and father sat in a hospital beside their very badly injured daughter knowing their son was in the morgue.

Two other families sat silently weeping for their sons also.

I cannot get past this. Here are 4 families that have just had all the education they will ever need.

My heart bleeds for them all tonight, as the pain really sets in.

Gaela

4Vman · 17-01-2010, 10:37 PM

It touches us all Gaela, im passionate about road safety bacause ive lost too many good friends from acts of stupidity.
Not many days go by without a though or 2 about my mates.... 1 was taken 22 years ago, but i still think of her.....
Forums like these are a great place to get the message out there, this is education too, we can never let up the good fight.

Franco Cozzo · 17-01-2010, 10:39 PM

http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/s...censed-to-kill

Craig is one of my mates...

He doesn't have his license, yet.. But believe me, I reckon that is the way he WILL behave on the roads. This was BEFORE he got into weed and alcohol, and I know for sure he will drive under the influence. I've been into arguments with this kid before and he was the first one to give me crap over buying my Fiesta over the R34 Skyline I was looking at.

4Vman · 17-01-2010, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XCPWSF

http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/s...censed-to-kill

Craig is one of my mates...

He doesn't have his license, yet.. But believe me, I reckon that is the way he WILL behave on the roads. This was BEFORE he got into weed and alcohol, and I know for sure he will drive under the influence. I've been into arguments with this kid before and he was the first one to give me crap over buying my Fiesta over the R34 Skyline I was looking at.

That was a great segment, i remember it... "the human brain isnt fully developed till 25".... Funnily enough the same age that is the upper limit of the "worst risk" group.....

Franco Cozzo · 17-01-2010, 10:50 PM

Everyone here remember back to when they where 18, when you where driving what where the things you thought about? Was it about breaking laws and their consequences or breaking laws and fun?

4Vman · 17-01-2010, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XCPWSF

Everyone here remember back to when they where 18, when you where driving what where the things you thought about? Was it about breaking laws and their consequences or breaking laws and fun?

Without question concequences.... i was the "voice of reason" in my social group... Not every 18 y/o is reckless....

Brent · 17-01-2010, 10:55 PM

Can't say that I have read every one of the 7 or so pages of posts, but a few things spring to mind with this tragedy:
- Car type: wouldn't have mattered if it was a Hyunday or a Merc. At 140kph or thereabouts you're stuffed if you hit an immoveable object. Lap of the gods.
- Legislation: the driver wasn't exactly thinking about it. Only for the honest people. Forget it.
- Road conditions. With all due respect, its BS. You drive to the conditions. At best, a lame excuse. I drive in the snow every season and just because it says 100kph doesn't mean you do it around an ice-covered hairpin. Ditto for wet weather. Ditto for nightime. Ditto for a single lane road. Same for gravel. If you can't work that out, you shouldn't be on the road. Period.
- Driver training. If the driver concerned had been to a driver training school, he'd have been doing 180kph before he crashed, rather than 140kph. I'll go out on a limb here, and say its irrelevant in this instance. Just varying degrees of destruction.

The biggest single issue is attitude. If you get someone in a car who doesn't give a stuff, then it doesn't matter what he's driving, or whether he loses it at 140kph or 180kph, or whether there's a gravel verge or not.....it's all going to end the same way, sooner or later. So long as people can't (or won't) acknowledge the risks or give any sort of consideration about what they're doing, then this sort of thing will continue.

As much as a tragedy as it is, its probably a miracle that they didn't take another car (and another innocent family) with them.

gtxb67 · 17-01-2010, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Without question concequences.... i was the "voice of reason" in my social group... Not every 18 y/o is reckless....

same here - i drove like a little old lady when i first got my license
it probably helped that i was lucky????? enough to have been in 3 accidents before the age of 18, none of them were due to driver error - and all could and should have been devastating

GT · 17-01-2010, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

It touches us all Gaela, im passionate about road safety bacause ive lost too many good friends from acts of stupidity.
Not many days go by without a though or 2 about my mates.... 1 was taken 22 years ago, but i still think of her.....
Forums like these are a great place to get the message out there, this is education too, we can never let up the good fight.

It is the consequence of this accident that is the lesson.

Until you feel the 'pain' on some level, the lesson will not be learned.

Gaela

left · 17-01-2010, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcxr

This stretch of road has claimed numerous lives. Two people died approx. 100m from this scene a couple of months ago.
People speed here during daylight hours, cant imagine the speeds they must get up to in the wee small hours. Hope I dont know any of the young blokes as I'm a local.

I'm not picking the guts out of your comments but think it might be worth mentioning those other people killed were "known to police" and - importantly - also running a red light. It's not a dangerous road.

g220ba · 17-01-2010, 11:04 PM

I'm only 22, never lost a point on my license never and the only time i've been stopped by the cops was at a booze bus on 2 seperate occassions. Now my driving is seen as slow by my mates because i follow the speed limit. Just the other night i was apparently uptight because i wouldn't drive until all seatbelts were on. The sort of attitude i've put up with through trade school for having a clean driving record to me is laughable. For some reason it's cool to lose your license.

:

Sizey · 17-01-2010, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

Media reports it as a 'High powered' sedan as if that's to blame.

Don't think I would call an XR6 high powered. It has some amount of power but not compared to other vehicles on the road. It just comes back to the old saying of tame the driver NOT the vehicle. But as has been said, how we do this is baffling!

GK351 · 17-01-2010, 11:08 PM

Anybody that gets done drink drieving or 30+km/h over the speed limit have no regard to the community or themselves for that matter.

Its obviously not sinking in to these idiots, they think they are playing playstation in 'DAMAGE off' mode.

The least the govt can do to slow this down is go hard with TV commercials, internet commercials, paper ads etc get the horrible graphics out their.

If this follwoing youtube clip wont defer anybody espeacially the young from speeding
then seriosuly i dont know what sort of world we live in.

I really think they arnt getting the message out their enough.

5 teens dead
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhIsgxMs4iQ

ieatsports_cars · 17-01-2010, 11:14 PM

all i can say is that is is very very sad !!!

Sizey · 17-01-2010, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 84ltd

I'm only 22, never lost a point on my license never and the only time i've been stopped by the cops was at a booze bus on 2 seperate occassions. Now my driving is seen as slow by my mates because i follow the speed limit.

:

I'm 18 and in the same boat mate. But I cop it from SAPOL and my mates.....you can't win because the cops think you are being too much of an idiot due to a steriotype and your mates think you are not being an idiot enough due to immaturity.

Brent · 17-01-2010, 11:18 PM

This whole "high powered thing" is infuritating. It has absolutely nothing to do with it. The difference between high powered and normal powered is that with the latter, it would take you another 2-3 seconds, or roughly 70 metres of road, to be doing the same stupid speed as the "high powered" vehicle in the first place.

I think back to my XE Falcon as my 1st car in light of my current ride (BF GT) and obviously the latter is one of those evil high powered cars, but I tell you what, if I had a choice between which one I'd rather be in if I came into a corner a bit too fast, the answer would never be remotely in doubt.....