Police bash hoon drivers

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

without trying to sound sexist, you are female - many males would not do that. they would use what many would consider unreasonable force long before shutting the door failed

complete role reversal in my house. dave will shut the door. I've on two occassions removed people who have struggled, and their heads have met with the door frame on the way out.
Doesn't mean it was acceptable behaviour of me though, in fact, it's not something I'm proud of...

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by lotski

Except, as I stated, in the eyes of the law, that is no longer the case. It's not a case of deserving it, morally right or wrong. It's about the law.

i haven't commented on the law as such - but is this the same law that allows someone who is breaking into your house and injuring themselves while doing it to sue you - the law ain't fair. and generally it ain't fair for the law abiding citizens so the lowest common denominator can be protected

Originally Posted by lotski

Doesn't mean it was acceptable behaviour of me though, in fact, it's not something I'm proud of...

i disagree in certain circumstances. why should you be the victim if someone is forcing their way into your space

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

i haven't commented on the law as such - but is this the same law that allows someone who is breaking into your house and injuring themselves while doing it to sue you - the law ain't fair. and generally it ain't fair for the law abiding citizens so the lowest common denominator can be protected

No it's not always fair. I'm not saying it is.
but the Law ruling in this case, is. Anyone could say "he antagonised me" and get away with beating the crap out of someone, all they'd need is one or two people to back up the claim and they're set.
The fact that people can't use that as a reason now, (it must be in self defence), means that people actually have to initiate some self control, which I whole heartedly believe is fair.
I'm not saying that I don't understand the cops actions, I do. One of Dave's friends antagonises me all the time (not infront of everyone so he's not the bad guy), and it takes all my will power to not grab his head and put it through a mincer at times. But the point here is, it doesn't make it right for me to give him a good bop on the nose, he deserves it. me ignoring the twat, and ultimately getting further in life, makes me a better person, and this wouldn't be nearly as achieveable with an assault charge.

The same goes for these cops, they chose to lay into these guys, made a fiasco out of it, and are now paying the price. Now, they are no better than the "hoons", and ruined their careers. Again, I'll go back to the fact that the two guys were cuffed, and posed no threat, wasn't an equal fight. IF they were uncuffed and laying into the cop back... well.. that'd be a different story.

Originally Posted by gtxb67

i disagree in certain circumstances. why should you be the victim if someone is forcing their way into your space

The question isn't, why should you be the victim. It's would I be the victim. If someone started a physical fight, you can bet your life savings I'd end it, with reasonable force, and doing as little damage to said person. Done it before, will most likely end up doing it again. If they're just mouthing off... ehh... you're not really gonna be a victim apart from maybe a bit of a headache from the crap spewing forth from said person's mouth. Remove them, be done with it. The enrgy spent on punching them would be better spent on drinking and eating cupcakes imho.
It all comes down to what you classify as antagonising. My definition pertains to the verbal form. once it escalates from that, it becomes a physical threat.

Just my opinion, but I also have fairly high expectations of society, and don't feel that words should be met with fists.

(Just as a disclaimer, I am often sorely disappointed with society because of my expectations...)

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

without trying to sound sexist, you are female - many males would not do that. they would use what many would consider unreasonable force long before shutting the door failed

I'm sorry, but that kind of suggests that men lack the ability to think rationally and logically (something that I know is not the case).

I do understand where you're coming from, but if we excuse people for thinking and acting irrationally, where do we draw the line? What is acceptable?

I understand also that these officers are being punished for what they have done, as you would expect any normal person would be punished for doing the same thing. Their jobs are in jeopardy as a result, and rightly so. They took up employment under the pretence of 'protecting and serving', they have not upheld their end of the bargain. Bouncers get sacked for doing the exact same thing. Their role is to maintain order and prevent carnage, not cause it, and they know this before they sign up to the force. I know that's a concept that some may feel doesn't suit this situation as there were causative factors prior to the event...but...Just because you can, it doesn't mean you should...

[flappist]

Keep it on topic and civil please

[mrbaxr6t]

I work as a security guard and trust me there are individuals out there that you can hold hands with and kiss in the ear till you die, they will continue on their stupid behavior no matter what you do or say, let alone what the police say, but when security stops taking crap in a vanue and forcibly removes and bans these individuals all of a sudden the message gets through, be a dick here and we will door you, then all of a sudden behavior improves as its the only thing some people understand.....

and how can you judge based on the last 30 seconds of video?? I was involved in an incident in a nightlclub with some numpty that claimed that he got an asskicking and a concussion from nightclub security, then when the cops got the video IN FULL he was witnessed groping a barmaid, smashing the DJ in the head then spitting at security, then he got pinned and forcibly removed.... now if you ONLY had video of the last 20 seconds of the incident security would have looked like thugs.....

[ratter]

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

I work as a security guard and trust me there are individuals out there that you can hold hands with and kiss in the ear till you die, they will continue on their stupid behavior no matter what you do or say, let alone what the police say, but when security stops taking crap in a vanue and forcibly removes and bans these individuals all of a sudden the message gets through, be a dick here and we will door you, then all of a sudden behavior improves as its the only thing some people understand.....

and how can you judge based on the last 30 seconds of video?? I was involved in an incident in a nightlclub with some numpty that claimed that he got an asskicking and a concussion from nightclub security, then when the cops got the video IN FULL he was witnessed groping a barmaid, smashing the DJ in the head then spitting at security, then he got pinned and forcibly removed.... now if you ONLY had video of the last 20 seconds of the incident security would have looked like thugs.....

Exactly!

Most/Some general public have no idea about what goes on around them, they are not paid to observe people and watch for trouble, it's not until you are put in a position that requires attention to peoples behaviour do you really see what goes on

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

I'm sorry, but that kind of suggests that men lack the ability to think rationally and logically.

In a confrontational situation, 100% correct. That's when the testosterone kicks in and all manner of rationality and logic flies out the window.

[Fireblade]

Obviously Assault is acceptable in this day and age, maybe if you feel that strongly about kicking the **** out of people, lobby the government to change the law so we can all go round kicking the **** out of the ****heads in our society, it should only take a few years to eradicate this vermin from our communities.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

I'm sorry, but that kind of suggests that men lack the ability to think rationally and logically (something that I know is not the case).

I do understand where you're coming from, but if we excuse people for thinking and acting irrationally, where do we draw the line? What is acceptable?

I understand also that these officers are being punished for what they have done, as you would expect any normal person would be punished for doing the same thing. Their jobs are in jeopardy as a result, and rightly so. They took up employment under the pretence of 'protecting and serving', they have not upheld their end of the bargain. Bouncers get sacked for doing the exact same thing. Their role is to maintain order and prevent carnage, not cause it, and they know this before they sign up to the force. I know that's a concept that some may feel doesn't suit this situation as there were causative factors prior to the event...but...Just because you can, it doesn't mean you should...

i don't think I have said that they should not be punished. i don't think i have actually commented on the case at hand

i can understand why some good cops go bad - and if they have been pushed beyond the acceptable tolerance level, then i do not have sympathy for the "victims"

for sure cops can go too far, but the general public do much worse and just blame it on alcohol or drugs or society or something else. they effectively get let off, yet the cops are treated like crap for trying and protect the general public

they do a crap job for effectively crap pay, and society can only hang crap on them. for those who suggest they know what they got into, just imagine a world without them

[Fireblade]

Stop justifying what the cops did with crap pay and working conditions, they are not the only ones in the world in this situation, no one is claiming the cops have got it rosy, far from it I understand that what they do is a **** job dealing with the vermin in our societies but it doesn't justify what they have done. I am only hanging crap on the 2 involved, not all cops as most I have come across have been good if not great in dealing with me. If that had been me on camera doing that and not cops, I bet attitudes here would be the exact polar opposite.

[gtxb67]

you are not reading anything i am posting are you. i not justifying as much as not caring when some people push others too far

[GTpilot]

Using their batton, What gutless pussies they are. I agree the so called "hoons" are complete fools and deserve to be delt with, but not bashed by p155 weak cops with battons.
To the gutless cops, Man up you girls and face up to them if you want to take anger out.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by GTpilot

Using their batton, What gutless pussies they are. I agree the so called "hoons" are complete fools and deserve to be delt with, but not bashed by p155 weak cops with battons.
To the gutless cops, Man up you girls and face up to them if you want to take anger out.

batons and beating sticks are cool.. why hurt your hands on boney hard heads..

[GTpilot]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

batons are cool.. why hurt your hands on boney hard heads..

as I said, they are Girls.. If your tough enough you wont hurt your hands!

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by GTpilot

as I said, they are Girls.. If your tough enough you wont hurt your hands!

you must punch like my sister then... hitting people in the head does hurt your hands.....

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

you must punch like my sister then... hitting people in the head does hurt your hands.....

are you always on, mr beige

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by ratter

Ok, so the cops that have told me that were telling me lies, see we can't trust them at all can we

And how long ago was that.

My accident was 2 months ago. I followed it up myself and was specifically told that because no one was injured they did not need to write a report. The insurance company has told me that as of late the police will no longer write reports if no one is injured unless a crime has been committed.

Why would police have to charge someone in an accident, for example, where no one was at fault? They don't have to charge anyone.

And as always with these things there are always differing opinions between people. What one officer may think could differ to the next. Or they are so overworked they don't have time to waste on minor accidents etc.

[GTpilot]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

you must punch like my sister then... hitting people in the head does hurt your hands.....

Well you are from Adelaide!
oh, say hi to your sister for me!

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by GTpilot

Well you are from Adelaide!
oh, say hi to your sister for me!

dude, what dont you understand.. punching people in the head hurts your hands....

[SpoolMan]

Must be drawing close to the end...
Use PM for your continued off topic side posting with other members.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by ratter

We have no idea of what went on before hand or possibly what was being said by the guy on the ground.
Was he making threats?, was he taunting them? was he bragging about how the courts will give him a slap on the wrist and he'll be doing it again? who knows.

I know an ex cop and from what I have heard being taunted, abused and spit on was pretty much a daily occurrence.
A cop shouldn't lose their cool and react to this, because that is what the scumbag wants. They want the reaction.
Since being treated badly is a common occurrence you would think the cop wouldn't take it to heart.

In a couple of months who is the real winners and losers in this situation.
They hoons cuts and bruises would of healed, they will probably be let off for doing the burnout due to their 'traumatic experience' and then they will be laughing at the cops because they are now out of a job or in some sort of other trouble.


Personally I have always had good experiences with cops.
But I have never been pulled over for my driving either.

[mcnews]

On the small country town thing... Mansfield and the 30km either side of it is the most heavily policed area, traffic wise, I have ever come across anywhere in the world.

One case in point... Within 10km and less than 10 minutes I was once breathalysed twice, and drug tested once.

And there is always a camera car at least somewhere in the vicinity of Mansfield almost permanently.

I note this only for a bit of perspective for those that think Mansfield is a one horse town with two cops or something.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by Ben73

I know an ex cop and from what I have heard being taunted, abused and spit on was pretty much a daily occurrence.
A cop shouldn't lose their cool and react to this, because that is what the scumbag wants. They want the reaction.
Since being treated badly is a common occurrence you would think the cop wouldn't take it to heart.

Friend of mine is a copper (and has been for 11yrs), he is burnt out and ready to leave as soon as he can find a job elsewhere. Its all very well to say they shouldnt react, but you say there that being treated badly is a common occurance, now imagine if it were you and your expected NOT to react after your constantly treated like rubbish day after day after day, not only from the public, but by the pollies and the higher ups who also give you no support, are forced to work in poor conditions (under staffed), long shifts etc...

Originally Posted by Ben73

In a couple of months who is the real winners and losers in this situation.
They hoons cuts and bruises would of healed, they will probably be let off for doing the burnout due to their 'traumatic experience' and then they will be laughing at the cops because they are now out of a job or in some sort of other trouble.

100% correct, the real losers here are the coppers, the hoons will be laughing all the way out the door after they have seen their lawyers seeking compo from the QPS...

Originally Posted by Ben73

Personally I have always had good experiences with cops.
But I have never been pulled over for my driving either.

Having been pulled over quite a few times etc, 95% of the time it has been pleasant, with only a few arrogant sounding officers who i just smiled too and nodded. Cant say i have been pulled over for "hooning" though...

[draganvidic]

i bet they don't do burnouts anymore!

[S.D.M.F]

Now the 2 punching bags will sue for compensation, and will get to see our taxes at work, both for the court hearings and then the pay-out they'll receive.

[ray38l]

Originally Posted by mrbaxr6t

I work as a security guard and trust me there are individuals out there that you can hold hands with and kiss in the ear till you die, they will continue on their stupid behavior no matter what you do or say, let alone what the police say, but when security stops taking crap in a vanue and forcibly removes and bans these individuals all of a sudden the message gets through, be a dick here and we will door you, then all of a sudden behavior improves as its the only thing some people understand.....

and how can you judge based on the last 30 seconds of video?? I was involved in an incident in a nightlclub with some numpty that claimed that he got an asskicking and a concussion from nightclub security, then when the cops got the video IN FULL he was witnessed groping a barmaid, smashing the DJ in the head then spitting at security, then he got pinned and forcibly removed.... now if you ONLY had video of the last 20 seconds of the incident security would have looked like thugs.....

being a security guard you should know what reasonable force is.
I used to work at some of the most violent pubs in nsw and i never had to bash someone up who no longer posed a threat to me.
I would regurly get threatened, spat at, sworn at and have had a guy hide in the bushes near my car and wait for my shift to finish so he could have a go at me. Never have i had to go beyond what is considered reasonable force.
Your example doesnt compare to what the cops did because im sure you didnt have the person in the pub in handcuffs cowering on the ground.

[MercurySilver]

typical and no surprise
the young nazi cops thinking they are above the law
no sorry
thinking they are the law

real tough kicking the crap out of someone while they are down
and real smart to do it in front or your cars camera

shows the mental mindset of these idiots

so
he kicks the crap out of him, and one mistimed kick gets the kid in the temple
he goes into a coma and later dies

what ya reckon would happen then huh??

theres some good cops out there
honest hard working guys and girls trying to do good and protect society
then theres the little cliques and brotherhoods that think they ARE the law with their masonic badges and the like

if i get pulled over i ask for the badge number and when they ask why
i saw because i have a right to.
and if they arent wearing a hat or a fluro vest ill let them know about that too.

[MAD]

Cops have guns for a reason. Sometimes they have to be the law.
It's better that they belted them, instead of shooting them.

What's wrong with laying in to the scum of the earth? It might actually get them on the straight and narrow. Maybe they'll think twice about their respect level for the law.

[mcnews]

Or maybe they won't even think about laying down for them at all if that is what you get when you surrender, so young offenders like these come out swinging or knifing or shooting straight from the off..... The conduct of these coppers endangers every other serving officer.