Could Kevin Rudd/Kim Carr pursuade Ford to reverse shut down decision?

[Lardman]

Originally Posted by westy73

No we are not in a recession. LAst time I looked interest rates are low, unemployment low and inflation within targets. Recessions effect local economies. Depressions effect Global economies. We are not in a recession however we are terribly vulnerable if it hits as we have deficits as far as the eye can see at least 3 years into the future which will turn even more negative should commodity prices drop and heaven forbid the mining bubble bursts. As you say it is vulnerable in other European economies so instability could mean great negativity in share markets

On the contrary debt is exactly the problem especially when it isn't being contained. That's the real issue. If I have a loan for a house then yes at that point in time I can service the debt. What if interest rates double ?? then what ? keep spending or are you in trouble ? Have you had to pay mortgage rates above 10% in your lifetime or 15% ?? I know for a fact that answer would be NO.

Yes and about forecasts....the FORECAST was for a surplus of 1 Billion bucks this year....tell me what the ACTUAL result was....well ??? 18 Billion in Deficit.
So forecasts are not a guide at all and if so are very flimsy and are subject to financial events outside of our governments control.
.

Local standing amongst global players mean nothing - if we do well, but the rest of the globe is ailing, no money will flow through - and a country can't sustain itself on its own without import and exports.

On debt - we are containing it. It doesn't need to be erased, we are still reducing it amid huge global debt rates that are actually increasing - if anything we should use this standing to pump more money into our economy.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Lotte

So did anyone else read about how it's been determined the Howard government was the most wasteful spender? Was reading some stuff on it at lunch.

This "mess" people are in a tizz about isn't as bad as it could be. We could have done austerity measures and ended up like... Oh... I dunno... A lot of Europe when the gfc hit.

Lotte, the best we can hope for is a right wing Labor government (Like Rudd) or an Lillte L Liberal/Wet Liberal government
that has both social policy, fairness and Equity as well as a strong sense of fiscal responsibility at hand.

The left cannot be trusted with the cash tin as most of the blow out occurred under Gillard, not Rudd,
I would be happy with a micro managing Rudd or a strong Malcom Turnbull lead Liberal party.

Who ever wins government has to tell the rest of Australia how its going to be and that involves
strong cut backs and more tax for low income earners.

[mr smith]

Originally Posted by westy73

No we are not in a recession. LAst time I looked interest rates are low, unemployment low and inflation within targets. Recessions effect local economies. Depressions effect Global economies. We are not in a recession however we are terribly vulnerable if it hits as we have deficits as far as the eye can see at least 3 years into the future which will turn even more negative should commodity prices drop and heaven forbid the mining bubble bursts. As you say it is vulnerable in other European economies so instability could mean great negativity in share markets.



On the contrary debt is exactly the problem especially when it isn't being contained. That's the real issue. If I have a loan for a house then yes at that point in time I can service the debt. What if interest rates double ?? then what ? keep spending or are you in trouble ? Have you had to pay mortgage rates above 10% in your lifetime or 15% ?? I know for a fact that answer would be NO.

Yes and about forecasts....the FORECAST was for a surplus of 1 Billion bucks this year....tell me what the ACTUAL result was....well ??? 18 Billion in Deficit.
So forecasts are not a guide at all and if so are very flimsy and are subject to financial events outside of our governments control.



Couldn't agree more with this quote but voting rights are not determined by people's political intellect. Unfortunately modern politicians (especially in the Rudd-Gillard era) think popularity by appearing on mainstream media programs and social media is more important than nuts and bolts policy.

Unemployment figures are WAY off the mark, missus works? Received a redundancy? Got some money saved? Centerlink wont let you register and while you may not be employed you are technically not unemployed.
Figures would be closer to 10% for those looking for full time employment.

[mik]

Lardman
Tell me how underhandedness and 'dishonesty' affect how the current Labor government is running the country? If anything, the recent government has been proven to be more democratic in its operation over the last 2 terms. As I've said - In my opinion, arbitrary emotions and things like 'honesty' are nothing of substance compared to actual policy. Policy runs the country, not emotions, not trust.

matey, have you been watching events of years past ??? and do you truly believe the crap you have must written?? either you have the rose colored glasses on, or you have your eyes glued shut, some people will get kicked in the bollocks and then reply "thank you very much", this is why we have politicians acting like they can do anything and get away with it.
As for Honesty not being substance in the running of the country, mate you are joking right? i say again, it is this sort of thinking that allows these clowns to do what they want, and it is not going to change.
It's because of the points i just made very little will change, politicians will go on their merry way doing what ever will bring them power, or give them a few votes rather than doing what is right for the country,
i would be expecting more useless handouts that will in a few years have the same companies should they manage to stay afloat asking for more drip feed due to the real problems for business still not being addressed..

[westy73]

Originally Posted by Lardman

Local standing amongst global players mean nothing - if we do well, but the rest of the globe is ailing, no money will flow through - and a country can't sustain itself on its own without import and exports.

On debt - we are containing it. It doesn't need to be erased, we are still reducing it amid huge global debt rates that are actually increasing - if anything we should use this standing to pump more money into our economy.

But what do we export apart from primary production items (grain, sugar, beef etc) and natural resources ?? Pretty much everything else is imported so naturally we are very vulnerable should those exports ease in the next couple of years. And we are even more exposed by the level of public debt. Everyone keeps saying we are a small country, hell we can't even support a locally made car as the market is so small.

What the ?? Reducing what ? We are still going to see deficits, at least forecast for the next 3 years. Do you mean the debt amounts each year will be smaller because you only reduce debt when you save more to pay off debt. At current levels we will see more debt added to net debt for 3 years at least and that's only if things continue as good for our terms of trade. Should there be a sudden drop in necessity for our natural resources then I guess we will need to borrow more and spend more, do you think ?
I don't want to contain debt I want our Governments to reduce debt and invest some more of our money ie taxes (not borrowed) on infrastructure and services to benefit us.

[westy73]

Originally Posted by mr smith

Unemployment figures are WAY off the mark, missus works? Received a redundancy? Got some money saved? Centerlink wont let you register and while you may not be employed you are technically not unemployed.
Figures would be closer to 10% for those looking for full time employment.

Well I wouldn't have a clue what the unemployment figures but we are all TOLD by our lovely treasurer (former now) that it is around 5% or just over. So in historical terms if you believe what you are told that is very low yes. I for one don't believe what I am told but do only purport to restate what is already stated by other more worldly and knowledgeable figures from the public domain.

[westy73]

Originally Posted by mik

Lardman
Tell me how underhandedness and 'dishonesty' affect how the current Labor government is running the country? If anything, the recent government has been proven to be more democratic in its operation over the last 2 terms. As I've said - In my opinion, arbitrary emotions and things like 'honesty' are nothing of substance compared to actual policy. Policy runs the country, not emotions, not trust.

matey, have you been watching events of years past ??? and do you truly believe the crap you have must written?? either you have the rose colored glasses on, or you have your eyes glued shut, some people will get kicked in the bollocks and then reply "thank you very much", this is why we have politicians acting like they can do anything and get away with it.
As for Honesty not being substance in the running of the country, mate you are joking right? i say again, it is this sort of thinking that allows these clowns to do what they want, and it is not going to change.
It's because of the points i just made very little will change, politicians will go on their merry way doing what ever will bring them power, or give them a few votes rather than doing what is right for the country,
i would be expecting more useless handouts that will in a few years have the same companies should they manage to stay afloat asking for more drip feed due to the real problems for business still not being addressed..

Yep totally agree. Governments these days want to SEEM to be doing something and lovely little handouts cover the real problems. Everyone feels warm and fuzzy. They (most politicians) are all just trying to be popular which isn't governance. It's gone too far. Take a look around at how nanny-state we have become.

[ian861]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

Just a thought...

Kevin Rudd (and Kim Carr (a Rudd backer)) was the man who developed the New Car Plan which has effectively kept car manufacturing alive.

Rudd has repeatedly said he "doesn't want to be PM of a country that doesn't make things" and lambasted Gillard for dropping the Green Car Fund (which I reckon would have saved Ford had it still been around).

So, assuming Kim Carr is rewarded (again) with the industry portfolio, does anyone think he could meet with Ford to try and get them to change track? It's not too late IMO, so long as something is done relatively quickly - i.e. before the election and before the end of the year when any prospect of developing a new model (lead times etc.) evaporates.

The issue is that people are not buying Australian made cars, although many cars made here could be sold internationally if the head office of our manufacturers were here. I would doubt Ford will continue to manufacture here unless they can make cars here a lot cheaper. Housing here is too expensive so the workers cant really do their work much cheaper. If you complain about the wages of management they will say they can get workers cheaper in Thailand not managers there lies the problem. lets face it green cars are as much fun as a prostate check

[ltd]

Just finished reading this thread and am amazed at the misinformation that is out there.
Australia is in the toilet, and crashing through the septic to the sewer below thanks to Keynesian socialists who ostensibly have pulled productive money out of the private sector and put it to waste in the public/govco sector.

As for debt, it is spiralling out of control, and running deficits is only making it worse. It may only be 10% of GDP, but remember 5 years ago we had over 80 billion in surplus reserves and zero debt. These economic ******* (Krudd started the rot) have blown over 380 billion dollars of your money and as such are forced to make concessions to the lender (China) by allowing massive amounts of land grabs which if under 250 million dollars are not alerted to the foreign investment review board. Furthermore, China having the little fraudulent wax-goblin over a barrel (because we've borrowed 300 billion) has brought about relaxed importation rules and the scrapping of the anti-dump policy of crap-loads of imports from china; effectively killing our industries (such as Ford).

If we go through it, since 2007 we had the following:

* $900.00 cheques to dead people, most of which went on Chinese goods, booze or the pokies. FAIL
* Pink Batts - Cost 3 billion to administer, lots of house fires as a result and 4 people dead,cost 1 billion to clean up. If done by private company manager would be in prison for industrial manslaughter. FAIL
* Asylum Policy - Changed it to appear to be caring and because it was Howards success. Now over 45000 people arrived, over 2000 people drowned at sea on their way here. No idea how to fix it. FAIL
* Building Education Revolution - 16 Billion on 8 billion worth of work. Got biggest companies to do this as no thought went into it, and resultantly cost a bomb for ostensibly getting Lamborghini to make a commodore at great expense when the local bought commodore would have been better and cheaper - FAIL.
* Industrial Relations - Have basically walked away from business and given the unions greater control. Think Qantas grounding their fleet and penalty rates for hospitality staff closing businesses like cafe's on weekends. - FAIL.
* Unemployment - like to quote 5%, but look over the stats and find that underemployment has gone up 40% in 6 years, and also long term employed have been moved to disability pensions (200,000 in 2007, now over 850,000 in 2013) to fudge the figures. Also worked 1 hour in the last two weeks, then under Govco you're employed - FAIL.
* Carbon Tax - FAIL. Pseudo science that even NASA has walked from and has said is not happening, promoted and started by ex Vice President who failed science at university; but policy has driven many businesses to the wall. - FAIL
* Mining tax, - FAIL. Expected to get 5 billion, got 120 million but had already spent 5 billion in anticipation of the receipt from the tax - FAIL.
NBN - Not even costed into our budget, this 80 Billion dollar white elephant is great considering sweet FA people are taking it up and it is old technology. Speeds quoted are achievable with wireless tech as is happening in the USA and sadly, no one at govco is smart enough to realise that every popular device (i-Phone etc) is wireless. - FAIL
NDIS - FAIL. Talking about spending money on a policy that will cost 18 billion a year, yet they have only allocated 1 billion for the first year, and mental health is excluded as is those born with disabilities. Look at the fine print, it is another workers comp scheme. FAIL.
Business Confidence - FAIL. They have systematically culled small business and driven many companies (some over 100 years old) to the wall. Then they announce an election 9 months out which kills business confidence, then after re-electing a proven failure that date is going to push out another 2 months (G20 in September, the prancing little fraud will not give up his chance to big note himself) - Investment and confidence, again screwed. Rudd - FAIL.

What's really happened here is that we have elected a bunch of incompetents who in record time have destroyed the country to the point where they can only run on spin and personality, which is why they have become spectacularly nasty. Only a fool would be convinced that this rabble has any economic sense to turn things around, and they need to be cast into the gutter for the lives they have screwed. I'd try the little Manchurion Candidate for Treason if it were up to me.
The ALP, collectively they're so stupid that if they fell into a barrel full of titties, they'd come up sucking their thumbs.

[Charliewool]

ltd,
My only regret after reading your SPOT-ON post is that we only have the ability to give ONE "thanks".... Well written mate and Oh SO true!

[KIWI-1]

Treasurer Chris Bowen has recast Labor's economic message, warning of an uncertain outlook that will require "careful management".
A week after the former prime minister Julia Gillard insisted the economy was "growing, stable and strong", Mr Bowen said commodity prices were starting to slide and mining investment was turning down.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/pol...#ixzz2Xvh1Dw5Q

[babyf6]

What we need is a 100% Australian made and owned car manufacturer, full stop...

[karj]

Originally Posted by ltd

NDIS - FAIL. Talking about spending money on a policy that will cost 18 billion a year, yet they have only allocated 1 billion for the first year, and mental health is excluded as is those born with disabilities. Look at the fine print, it is another workers comp scheme. FAIL.

I am choosing this part of your post to correct because the NDIS is a reform that I feel transcends politics. Your statement is full of misinformation.

1) People born with disabilities are not excluded from the scheme.
2) Mental health is not exlcuded from the scheme. Below are the mental health considerations for funding through DisabilityCare.

Mental health
7.6 The NDIS will be responsible for supports that are not clinical in nature and that focus on a person’s functional ability, including supports that enable a person with a mental illness or psychiatric condition to undertake activities of daily living and participate in the community and social and economic life.
7.7 The NDIS will not be responsible for:
(a) supports related to mental health that are clinical in nature, including acute, ambulatory and continuing care, rehabilitation/recovery; or
(b) early intervention supports related to mental health that are clinical in nature, including supports that are clinical in nature and that are for child and adolescent developmental needs; or
(c) any residential care where the primary purpose is for inpatient treatment or clinical rehabilitation, or where the services model primarily employs clinical staff; or
(d) supports relating to a co-morbidity with a psychiatric condition where the co-morbidity is clearly the responsibility of another service system (eg treatment for a drug or alcohol issue).

3) DisabilityCare is not equivalent to workers compensation.

If you are actually interested in what DisabilityCare Australia and the NDIS is all about, you may find info at http://www.disabilitycareaustralia.gov.au/

Please stop spreading incorrect and misleading info about this. It is not helpful, nor even relevant to the topic being discussed.

Cheers.

[Sprint]

Want cheese with your whine ltd?

You don't need to look at the negatives in everything.

$900 cheques(did you give yours back? what did you spend it on?)

Pink bats= Good green idea, will save energy/power and save people money( a few cowboys tried to do the dodgy and make money), if it wasn't for the Howard era these workers wouldn't be sub contactors)

Your anti Union? see how you get on without them then.

Asylum policy =Yeah personally I dont like taking all these people in when we don't have the natural resources like basic water for everyone as is, the Australian identity is also very lost now.

Carbon tax= The whole world is trying to be more aware and fix the environment, personally planting tree's would be better than raising money I think. We need to do something tho and not just rape the earth.(again Gillard said "there will be no carbon tax under a government she leads, not kevs fault)

Mining tax= Yes fail but it was the right idea to get tax for our minerals.(but this was Gillards fault with watering it down)

Education is always top of any Governments agenda!.

Nbn = What ever it cost to do right ,its needed like roads, do you suggest we go back to copper lines?.

While I don't totally disagree with your comments I think some needs to be in context, Rudd only had charge 3 years before the other person knifed him and started the lies. I think Australians like giving someone a fair go.

You can have Rudd, someone who knows the job and has learned a few things, or you can Abbott, someone who doesn't have a clue.

In the short 3 years , Rudd saved us from the GFC(Gillard then went nuts and tried to buy votes),Rudd also did what I call "Australia's greatest moment in history" and said sorry to the Aborigines. He is a respected man world wide. Yes he's not perfect but again I think he is our best choice at the moment.

He might even save ford yet, but is it his fault they don't make money? 60k for a Fpv lol, get real.

[Alan D Segal]

Rudd saying sorry was a great moment and should not be ignored. Good call.

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by Sprint

Your anti Union? see how you get on without them then.

additionally, fair work penalty rates are LOWER than the previous state awards.

And ltd got a link fir that NASA claim, their website has a section on climate change and the evidence for it.

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Lotte, the best we can hope for is a right wing Labor government (Like Rudd) or an Lillte L Liberal/Wet Liberal government
that has both social policy, fairness and Equity as well as a strong sense of fiscal responsibility at hand.

The left cannot be trusted with the cash tin as most of the blow out occurred under Gillard, not Rudd,
I would be happy with a micro managing Rudd or a strong Malcom Turnbull lead Liberal party.

Who ever wins government has to tell the rest of Australia how its going to be and that involves
strong cut backs and more tax for low income earners.

I agree to an extent, I think I stated earlier in this thread I don't think labor are left anymore.
I also have respect fir Turnbull, read his blog, it's pretty damn good, and I think he could bring liberal back to centre right, not the hard conservative right I fear Abbott is taking them.

However I don't agree with more tax for lower income earners, I think tightening loopholes in returns, adding another tax bracket and if it comes to it increasingly all income tax equally is the way to go.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by ltd

Just finished reading this thread and am amazed at the misinformation that is out there.
Australia is in the toilet, and crashing through the septic to the sewer below thanks to Keynesian socialists who ostensibly have pulled productive money out of the private sector and put it to waste in the public/govco sector.

As for debt, it is spiralling out of control, and running deficits is only making it worse. It may only be 10% of GDP, but remember 5 years ago we had over 80 billion in surplus reserves and zero debt. These economic ******* (Krudd started the rot) have blown over 380 billion dollars of your money and as such are forced to make concessions to the lender (China) by allowing massive amounts of land grabs which if under 250 million dollars are not alerted to the foreign investment review board. Furthermore, China having the little fraudulent wax-goblin over a barrel (because we've borrowed 300 billion) has brought about relaxed importation rules and the scrapping of the anti-dump policy of crap-loads of imports from china; effectively killing our industries (such as Ford).

If we go through it, since 2007 we had the following:

* $900.00 cheques to dead people, most of which went on Chinese goods, booze or the pokies. FAIL
* Pink Batts - Cost 3 billion to administer, lots of house fires as a result and 4 people dead,cost 1 billion to clean up. If done by private company manager would be in prison for industrial manslaughter. FAIL
* Asylum Policy - Changed it to appear to be caring and because it was Howards success. Now over 45000 people arrived, over 2000 people drowned at sea on their way here. No idea how to fix it. FAIL
* Building Education Revolution - 16 Billion on 8 billion worth of work. Got biggest companies to do this as no thought went into it, and resultantly cost a bomb for ostensibly getting Lamborghini to make a commodore at great expense when the local bought commodore would have been better and cheaper - FAIL.
* Industrial Relations - Have basically walked away from business and given the unions greater control. Think Qantas grounding their fleet and penalty rates for hospitality staff closing businesses like cafe's on weekends. - FAIL.
* Unemployment - like to quote 5%, but look over the stats and find that underemployment has gone up 40% in 6 years, and also long term employed have been moved to disability pensions (200,000 in 2007, now over 850,000 in 2013) to fudge the figures. Also worked 1 hour in the last two weeks, then under Govco you're employed - FAIL.
* Carbon Tax - FAIL. Pseudo science that even NASA has walked from and has said is not happening, promoted and started by ex Vice President who failed science at university; but policy has driven many businesses to the wall. - FAIL
* Mining tax, - FAIL. Expected to get 5 billion, got 120 million but had already spent 5 billion in anticipation of the receipt from the tax - FAIL.
NBN - Not even costed into our budget, this 80 Billion dollar white elephant is great considering sweet FA people are taking it up and it is old technology. Speeds quoted are achievable with wireless tech as is happening in the USA and sadly, no one at govco is smart enough to realise that every popular device (i-Phone etc) is wireless. - FAIL
NDIS - FAIL. Talking about spending money on a policy that will cost 18 billion a year, yet they have only allocated 1 billion for the first year, and mental health is excluded as is those born with disabilities. Look at the fine print, it is another workers comp scheme. FAIL.
Business Confidence - FAIL. They have systematically culled small business and driven many companies (some over 100 years old) to the wall. Then they announce an election 9 months out which kills business confidence, then after re-electing a proven failure that date is going to push out another 2 months (G20 in September, the prancing little fraud will not give up his chance to big note himself) - Investment and confidence, again screwed. Rudd - FAIL.

What's really happened here is that we have elected a bunch of incompetents who in record time have destroyed the country to the point where they can only run on spin and personality, which is why they have become spectacularly nasty. Only a fool would be convinced that this rabble has any economic sense to turn things around, and they need to be cast into the gutter for the lives they have screwed. I'd try the little Manchurion Candidate for Treason if it were up to me.
The ALP, collectively they're so stupid that if they fell into a barrel full of titties, they'd come up sucking their thumbs.

You dont think in some way the GFC was responsible for any damage what so ever in this country?? I dont see one mention of the GFC in your post...

cheers, Maka

[GQ_Smooth]

Turnball or Rudd either one gets my tick, I don't believe anyone else there has the foresight to make long term plans.

Ultimately we will always get the leader we deserve.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by karj

I am choosing this part of your post to correct because the NDIS is a reform that I feel transcends politics. Your statement is full of misinformation.

1) People born with disabilities are not excluded from the scheme.
2) Mental health is not exlcuded from the scheme. Below are the mental health considerations for funding through DisabilityCare.

3) DisabilityCare is not equivalent to workers compensation.

If you are actually interested in what DisabilityCare Australia and the NDIS is all about, you may find info at http://www.disabilitycareaustralia.gov.au/

Please stop spreading incorrect and misleading info about this. It is not helpful, nor even relevant to the topic being discussed.

Cheers.

Thanks for your interest.
You do realise all that you've argued is a moot point simply because they haven't funded it and don't have the money.
They have funded a small trial only, although that is for one year only.

Also, your reference is a government website. Do you honestly believe that they are going to be impartial and fair in their assessment of their own program?

[Lotte]

They're rolling it out gradually, hence the small funding this year as it'll only be in some areas.

[ian861]

Originally Posted by Maka

You dont think in some way the GFC was responsible for any damage what so ever in this country?? I dont see one mention of the GFC in your post...

cheers, Maka

I have to agree that the GFC didn't effect us at all as China was buying up big in Australia, we are a large country with a small population and we should have a better life than we do because our large size and small population should see us being the lender of money not the borrower of such

[karj]

Originally Posted by ltd

Thanks for your interest.
You do realise all that you've argued is a moot point simply because they haven't funded it and don't have the money.
They have funded a small trial only, although that is for one year only.

Also, your reference is a government website. Do you honestly believe that they are going to be impartial and fair in their assessment of their own program?

DisabilityCare Australia is an independent statutory agency and is apolitical. It is governed by a board appointed by a the Minister following consultation with all states and territories who must also agree with the appointment of Board members.

Funding and governance is shared amongst all governments.

This is what makes it apolitical.

It is supported by both major parties so you need to stop using the NDIS to support your own poltiical position.

They have not only funded a small trial, and it is not only for one year. As it is a new scheme, it is being rolled out across Australia gradually with different launch sites so that outcomes can be critically assessed and changes made where needed.

Again, if you want more info
http://www.disabilitycareaustralia.gov.au/about-us
http://www.disabilitycareaustralia.g...-us/governance
http://www.disabilitycareaustralia.g...care-australia

I'm only posting this to try and clear up any confusion that you may be causing by spreading misinformation.

I'm appealing to you again to please stop spreading incorrect and misleading info. It isn't helpful, and it's irrelevant to this discussion.

Cheers.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Sprint

Want cheese with your whine ltd?

You don't need to look at the negatives in everything.

$900 cheques(did you give yours back? what did you spend it on?)

I didn't get one, if I did I would have donated it to Bravehearts, a charity I have often donated to.

Originally Posted by Sprint

Pink bats= Good green idea, will save energy/power and save people money( a few cowboys tried to do the dodgy and make money), if it wasn't for the Howard era these workers wouldn't be sub contactors)

Pity about the increased house fires through lack of any regulation until AFTER scores (sic) of house fires resulting from placing insulation over halogen down-lights, as well as the death of 4 people because of again complete lack of regulation and training. Look at ASIC, to see the increase of over 4000% of insulation companies that sprouted up overnight to cash in. Not some cowboys, the majority were cowboys having had no experience before.
As for your assertion on sub contractors, that is beyond stupid. You do realise the difference between a contractor and sub contractor don't you? You also realise that at that time building contractors were flat out building and were in extremely high demand for construction, not installing insulation in roofs. You also do realise that the minister at the time Peter Garrett had warned Rudd repeatedly of the dangers and was fobbed off, only until after the death of a 4th person in a roof was the scheme called off and an enquiry launched. Garrett was the scape goat, you do realise that it is also why Garrett hates Rudd with a passion?

Originally Posted by Sprint

Your anti Union? see how you get on without them then.

That would be "You're" but thanks.
The union movement has channelled millions into green schemes, such as geothermal and other companies that cannot be profitable without taxpayer subsidy like the 10 billion dollar green scheme announced by Swan last budget. Further, they have pushed industrial relations too far in favour of the unions to the point of several major firms collapsing; have a look at the negotiations of GMH and the union to see an illustration of why lazy *** shop stewards aren't able to run a business. No, I don't like unions as they're full of illiterate, stupid people who are nothing but self-serving, stand over apologists trying to get a career in politics - they are not interested in the worker any more.

Originally Posted by Sprint

Asylum policy =Yeah personally I dont like taking all these people in when we don't have the natural resources like basic water for everyone as is, the Australian identity is also very lost now.

And who changed the policy and for what reason? Ego-driven ideological nonsense and grand standing from a pathological lying little twerp hell bent on stamping his name on the history of Australia. BTW, in ALP circles they are now called "Vote People", not asylum seekers.

Originally Posted by Sprint

Carbon tax= The whole world is trying to be more aware and fix the environment, personally planting tree's would be better than raising money I think. We need to do something tho and not just rape the earth.(again Gillard said "there will be no carbon tax under a government she leads, not kevs fault)

This is a bald faced lie. The world is rushing away from the whole climate change/global warming propagandist drivel and the charlatans like Rudd are being found out. Further, thanks to this tax which Rudd voted YES too in the senate you are now being taxed for breathing. Well done, have another welfare benefit on the barbie and all that.

Originally Posted by Sprint

Mining tax= Yes fail but it was the right idea to get tax for our minerals.(but this was Gillards fault with watering it down)

Another load of BS. The mining companies pay royalties to the states as the states own the resources. Then they pay company taxes to the fed, as well as income taxes and a whole raft of other taxes. The reason this was such a dog is that the idiot (Swan) who negotiated couldn't negotiate their way out of a wet paper bag and made so many concessions it was doomed to failure. Then counting his 11 fingers and twelve toes this petulant excuse for a human being came up with a magic figure of 5 billion per annum. No one agreed with him. It was a dumb idea by an even dumber twit.

Originally Posted by Sprint

Education is always top of any Governments agenda!.

Pity David Gonski is running from these proposals which do nothing but throw money at a non problem. Illiteracy and innumeracy are not going to be solved by throwing money, they are solved by people dedicated to their profession. Just like lap tops and school canteens, 16 billion made no difference to outcomes and apologist, leftist PC drivel has infected the curriculum of so many schools with nonsense like climate change that it is no wonder your average school leaver has the mathematical prowess of a 12 year old.

Originally Posted by Sprint

Nbn = What ever it cost to do right ,its needed like roads, do you suggest we go back to copper lines?.

It is not needed. What, you want to download faster porn? Copper is fine, tell me, what do we do when we have a blackout?
As I said, they are investing in old technology when the rest of the world is going wireless. Also, they have gotten us into 300 billion dollars of debt, do you think it's prudent to spend over 80 billion on such an extravagant project?

Originally Posted by Sprint

While I don't totally disagree with your comments I think some needs to be in context, Rudd only had charge 3 years before the other person knifed him and started the lies. I think Australians like giving someone a fair go.

Really? Well Rudd started the lies by saying he'd turn the boats back. He didn't. Instead, he cancelled the temporary protection visas and relaxed the rules resulting in over 45,000 boat people and 2000 deaths at sea.
Then, he started borrowing money and throwing it around on stupid ideas like the NBN which to date still have no cost benefit analysis. Furthermore, he is responsible for the deaths in roofs, the carbon tax, mining tax and every other failure of this government by the fact that he either introduced it into the senate as PM, or he voted on it as a senator. Frankly, there are too many lies to mention from this fraud.

Originally Posted by Sprint

You can have Rudd, someone who knows the job and has learned a few things, or you can Abbott, someone who doesn't have a clue.

Speaking of clues, you do realise that Rudd has got an arts degree, and Abbott is a Rhodes Scholar in economics?
You also do realise that under Rudd and Gillard they have turned an 80 billion dollar surplus into a 380 billion dollar debt don't you? Just thought I'd ask considering you're an expert on economics.
Also, isn't it funny that everyone who has worked with Rudd hates his guts, which is why over 40 senior ALP people and ministers have resigned because they refuse to work with him. If you choose to reward cunning and forgive a schemer who has spent the last three years plotting his revenge then more fool you.

Originally Posted by Sprint

In the short 3 years , Rudd saved us from the GFC(Gillard then went nuts and tried to buy votes),Rudd also did what I call "Australia's greatest moment in history" and said sorry to the Aborigines. He is a respected man world wide. Yes he's not perfect but again I think he is our best choice at the moment.

OK, several points here. Rudd didn't save us from recession, Howard and Costello did. Costello set up APRA which stopped our banks from being able to leverage loans which is precisely what caused the GFC in the USA under Freddy Mac and Fanny Mae. Here in Oz, whilst the mining industry was booming which prevented us entering recession Krudd tried a stimulus which was not targeted well; save for spending money on Chinese goods like Plasmas. Then he overdid it with BER and the pink batts. If it had not have been for the work of Costello and the previous government there would have been no money.
As for Aborigines, how's that going since the sorry day? Have remote communities improved their lot in life? Is alcoholism and child abuse rates on the way down or the way up? Sorry, that popinjay of a ****** you so admire has done nothing.

Originally Posted by Sprint

He might even save ford yet, but is it his fault they don't make money? 60k for a Fpv lol, get real.

He will not save Ford, Ford do not want a handout. If you think they do then you're probably more suited to Holden who are perennially at the government teat to the point that the unions are demanding a say in the corporate strategy of the company. Think SOLO petrol which was run by the ALP, that's another example of why stupid people should not run companies or countries.
You want to vote for a fraud who is hated by his own party that's your prerogative, but at least do some independent research to determine how to vote instead of just listening to sound bites and jingles.
BTW, I have met Rudd several times and I can personally vouch for him in as much as he is the crazy little ego-maniac all his colleagues describe him as. He is also extremely rude, arrogant and intellectually bereft. I'd say something nice about him but there's nothing left to say.
BTW, considering your mention of the night when he was stabbed, and the fact that over half the ALP hate his guts what do you think will happen to Rudd after the election? Will he still be the leader?

[ltd]

Originally Posted by karj

DisabilityCare Australia is an independent statutory agency and is apolitical. It is governed by a board appointed by a the Minister following consultation with all states and territories who must also agree with the appointment of Board members.

Funding and governance is shared amongst all governments.

This is what makes it apolitical.

It is supported by both major parties so you need to stop using the NDIS to support your own poltiical position.

They have not only funded a small trial, and it is not only for one year. As it is a new scheme, it is being rolled out across Australia gradually with different launch sites so that outcomes can be critically assessed and changes made where needed.

Again, if you want more info
http://www.disabilitycareaustralia.gov.au/about-us
http://www.disabilitycareaustralia.g...-us/governance
http://www.disabilitycareaustralia.g...care-australia

I'm only posting this to try and clear up any confusion that you may be causing by spreading misinformation.

I'm appealing to you again to please stop spreading incorrect and misleading info. It isn't helpful, and it's irrelevant to this discussion.

Cheers.

Again, find me in the May budget the amount of money set aside for this scheme.
You're big on the rhetoric and the spun line of what they intend to do, yet in forward estimates show me the money.

[karj]

Originally Posted by ltd

Again, find me in the May budget the amount of money set aside for this scheme.
You're big on the rhetoric and the spun line of what they intend to do, yet in forward estimates show me the money.

Here are forward estimates from May budget:
http://www.budget.gov.au/2013-14/con...verview_42.htm

And for more info...

The Australian Government will provide $19.3 billion over seven years from 2012-13 to roll out DisabilityCare Australia across the country. This brings the Australian Government's total new investment in DisabilityCare Australia to $14.3 billion over the period.
The Australian Government will provide funding of $11.7 billion to DisabilityCare Australia in 2019‑20, the first year after full national rollout. This represents 53 per cent of the $22.2 billion total cost of running DisabilityCare Australia, with the States and Territories providing the remaining funding.

http://www.budget.gov.au/2013-14/con...expense-10.htm

Everything you have said about the NDIS has been inaccurate. Please stop using the NDIS to launch political attacks.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Maka

You dont think in some way the GFC was responsible for any damage what so ever in this country?? I dont see one mention of the GFC in your post...

cheers, Maka

Maka , I think a kid with a gi joe doll could have steered us through the gfc, I also think we are far less prone to the major downfalls of euro/US problems here in the asia pacific, in actual fact I'm fairly confident we would have ridden out the down turn with minimal financial adjustments , and we would have been much better off.
Also we would have been better off without the pack of block heads making it even more expensive to do business in this country, not to mention the further easing of trade to allow more import dumping, it is not rocket science ,
Have a look at us now ,manufacturing is dissapearing, business confidence is shot to **** and o nly one party has been at helm for 6 years, but of course all the labor fan boys will tell us mr abott is going to make a bigger botch up of it.
Did I mention the allowing of possible diseased fruit allowed into australia that could decimate our industry in the name of fair trade, again good old labor,
did I mention for the fist time in australia history labor has allowed in meat from other countrys with mad cow disease, .................. again inthe name of fair trade bought to you by the ******* labor party, you blokes need to open your eye.

[austyphoon]

Originally Posted by ltd

It is not needed. What, you want to download faster porn? Copper is fine, tell me, what do we do when we have a blackout?
As I said, they are investing in old technology when the rest of the world is going wireless. Also, they have gotten us into 300 billion dollars of debt, do you think it's prudent to spend over 80 billion on such an extravagant project?

Wow, how narrow minded are you? I think a LOT of businesses will disagree with you, especially regional. NBN will be a god send when it's up and running.

And lol at Optic fibre being old technology, are you crazy??? How much experience do you have in the field? Fibre will never be out dated.

Wireless will never replace fixed broadband. Yes, it can be fast and comparable to some lower fibre speeds (google fibre has installed 1gb/s already btw) but it is very inconsistent and as soon as users jump on in peak times it'll be as fast as dial-up. Look at 3G and 4G now! Doesn't help regional Australia either.

you sir, have no clue.

[Maka]

Originally Posted by ian861

I have to agree that the GFC didn't effect us at all as China was buying up big in Australia, we are a large country with a small population and we should have a better life than we do because our large size and small population should see us being the lender of money not the borrower of such

The gfc didnt affect us or libs didnt have a alternative policy (running surplus's) lol! - which one is true?

http://www.crikey.com.au/2013/03/27/...witcher=mobile

or tongue in cheek,

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/...ged-australia/

cheers, Maka

[flappist]

Well look what happens when I go on holidays.

Bit to political and WAY off topic for the pub.

bye bye