Church Of Climatology

[Airmon]

I'm glad you've come into the discussion Wally, it's good to hear another different point of view. I don't say the other side of the fence as I don't see any fence here and I agree with alot of your points, but not all.

You are right in saying though that the government needs to implement some kind of scheme as we wont do it ourselves, but I do not see the ETS as it.

[cs123]

Interesting

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125970198500271683.html


The British scientist at the heart of a scandal over climate-change research temporarily stepped down Tuesday as director of a prominent research group amid an internal probe that follows the release of hacked emails involving him and other scientists.

The University of East Anglia in the U.K. said Phil Jones, head of the university's Climatic Research Unit, had decided to step aside from the director's post.

The announcement comes less than a week before world leaders are set to meet for a climate summit in Copenhagen. The two-week conference, sponsored by the United Nations, is supposed to come up with tougher policies to curb greenhouse-gas emissions and slow global warming.

The need for such action has been buttressed in large part by research by Dr. Jones and his colleagues in East Anglia and around the world. But hackers recently stole emails and documents from the East Anglia center that suggested Dr. Jones and other like-minded scientists tried to squelch the views of dissenting researchers and advocated manipulating data.

The fallout from the hacked emails is spreading beyond the U.K. Also Tuesday, Penn State University confirmed that Michael Mann -- a climate scientist on its faculty who figures prominently in the emails -- is under "inquiry" by the university.

Dr. Mann's work reconstructing historic global temperatures has, over the past decade, become a focal point of debate. Penn State said in a statement that its inquiry, which stems from disclosed emails written by Dr. Mann, is a preliminary step to determine whether a full investigation is needed. He didn't respond to requests for comment.


On Wednesday, President Barack Obama's top science adviser -- John Holdren, a climate scientist who sent one email among those hacked and posted -- is due to testify on Capitol Hill. The House committee holding the hearing has billed it as a way to explore "the urgent, consensus view...that global warming is real, and the science indicates that it is getting worse." Dr. Holdren's office declined to comment. Dr. Holdren has long spoken of the "overwhelming" evidence of man-made global warming.

The emails have led to calls for probes into the state of climate science from U.S. politicians skeptical that humans are causing global warming. They have also drawn criticism from some high-profile environmentalists.

In one email, Dr. Jones suggested to Dr. Mann that they should try to keep out of scientific journals the research of scientists who challenge the idea of man-made global warming. We "will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!" the email says.

The East Anglia institute that Dr. Jones headed has become a key player in building evidence for the U.N.'s argument that humans are behind global warming. In statements released by the institute in recent days, Dr. Jones has defended the integrity of the institute's scientific work, while saying that he and his colleagues "accept that some of the published emails do not read well."

On Tuesday, Dr. Jones said the East Anglia institute couldn't continue to do its work with him as its director amid the controversy. "What is most important is that CRU continues its world leading research with as little interruption and diversion as possible," he said in the statement. "After a good deal of consideration," he wrote, he decided to step down from the director's job pending the investigation.

Longtime critics of the premise that humans are responsible for climate change cheered word of the move by Dr. Jones and the inquiry into Dr. Mann. "I think we're making headway," said Oklahoma's James Inhofe, the senior Republican on the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee.

On Tuesday, Mr. Inhofe sent a letter to the chairwoman of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee, Barbara Boxer (D., Calif.), that called for hearings on whether any U.S. laws were broken by the scientists, or "any taxpayer-funded research deliberately obscured or manipulated." A spokesman for Ms. Boxer didn't immediately respond to a request for comment.

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by rodderz

We've been saying all along we DO care about that.

Dude forget it, I don't think anone can convince these three that we are not denying any impact to the environment FFS people read over my posts almost every time I have to defend a statement I F'N KEEP REPEATING [SIZE=3]MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF [/SIZE] REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF REPEATING MYSELF



NO ONE THAT ANY OF YOU SEE AS DENIERS HAS IN ANY STATEMENT DENIED POINT BLANK THAT WE ARE NOT HAVING AN IMPACT ON THE ENVIRONMENT WE SIMPLY CHOOSE TO QUESTION THE SCIENCE BEHIND CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING EVIDENTIARY STATEMENTS

NO ONE THAT ANY OF YOU SEE AS DENIERS HAS IN ANY STATEMENT DENIED POINT BLANK THAT WE ARE NOT HAVING AN IMPACT ON THE ENVIRONMENT WE SIMPLY CHOOSE TO QUESTION THE SCIENCE BEHIND CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING EVIDENTIARY STATEMENTS

NO ONE THAT ANY OF YOU SEE AS DENIERS HAS IN ANY STATEMENT DENIED POINT BLANK THAT WE ARE NOT HAVING AN IMPACT ON THE ENVIRONMENT WE SIMPLY CHOOSE TO QUESTION THE SCIENCE BEHIND CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING EVIDENTIARY STATEMENTS

NO ONE THAT ANY OF YOU SEE AS DENIERS HAS IN ANY STATEMENT DENIED POINT BLANK THAT WE ARE NOT HAVING AN IMPACT ON THE ENVIRONMENT WE SIMPLY CHOOSE TO QUESTION THE SCIENCE BEHIND CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING EVIDENTIARY STATEMENTS

NO ONE THAT ANY OF YOU SEE AS DENIERS HAS IN ANY STATEMENT DENIED POINT BLANK THAT WE ARE NOT HAVING AN IMPACT ON THE ENVIRONMENT WE SIMPLY CHOOSE TO QUESTION THE SCIENCE BEHIND CLIMATE CHANGE AND GLOBAL WARMING EVIDENTIARY STATEMENTS

[XRQTR]

And even after that effort we will still be seen by these same people as "DENIERS" and "CONSPIRACY THEORISTS"

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by Wally

See now you are heaping everything onto my shoulders as if I was a commy pinko dissident.

Hey you grew up in the 60's so for all we know you could well be. :

[TK-421]

Yeah unfortunatley, why's it always gotta be your either with us or against us attitude makes me sick.

[Wally]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[Wally]

LOL I like your style XRQTR .

You had me worried I had got it wrong, but it didn't take long to retrace. Have a look at post No2.

[MO]

@wally,I'm the only true left wing,commie dissident,staunch unionist and socialist in here. You want to be in my club? you've got one hell of an initiation to go through first.
@xrqtr,I know only too well about the repeat process,now just for the record one more time.....climate change,happens 24/7/365 the reason for this is what is in question,nothing more,nothing less. Please somebody tell me how introducing a tax is going to affect/alter/change this. It can't!!

Now,as I see it,the only way is for all the HONEST facts to be put on the table,the gov't then puts up options for dealing with it. Then it should be put to a referendum for the ppl to decide which way forward.

[|||]

Originally Posted by MO

Now,as I see it,the only way is for all the HONEST facts to be put on the table,the gov't then puts up options for dealing with it. Then it should be put to a referendum for the ppl to decide which way forward.

lol asking voters what they thought was how we ended up with the ETS in the first place. a referendum would be a waste of money unless you tie it in with australian idol and have the facts explained by andrew g for 3 months

[MO]

Originally Posted by |||

lol asking voters what they thought was how we ended up with the ETS in the first place. a referendum would be a waste of money unless you tie it in with australian idol and have the facts explained by andrew g for 3 months

As much as I agree,I think that the ppl are slowly waking up and asking the hard questions. Moreso when it involves the wallet.

[XRQTR]

Originally Posted by Wally

LOL I like your style XRQTR .

You had me worried I had got it wrong, but it didn't take long to retrace. Have a look at post No2.

Ye read it Walter, I fail to see where he denies any impact from our behaviour.

I do however see where he questions "Climate Change", which is what we are all doing, we are questioning the rise of the phenomenon that has become, we are wanting answers that no one seems to want to give.

Walter I think like so many of your compatriots before you and even those immediately after you, you all seem to focus on one thing, that's the wrong thing by the way. So I thought I'd help you all out by repeating it as many times in one post as I and others have in this entire thread but you all seem to skip that bit, hopefully though this time it hits you all like a bus.

No one has yelled conspiracy louder than those of you that also yell denier at myself and others in this thread with similar questions, since when did asking a question become a denial?? I mean as a democratic society are we not afforded the right to question that which has been told us to be true, do we not have that right?? Why does someone questioning the main stream have to be anything other than a person seeking the truth.

Albert Einstien believed previous theories to be false, and proved them so, was he a denier?? did he have a conspiracy theory?? No he had a point of view and in his case the means by which to prove his theories, sadly we don't so we do the best we can by asking questions, when they get shot down as conspiracy theory however it makes me wonder why they won't even be entertained unless perhaps not everything has been revealed to begin with.

Anyone that doesn't in some way question that which has been told to him by others to be fact is a fool.

[snappy]

An dont forget people conspiracy theory's have been proven to be true in the past
Not saying that this one is but i would not rule it out . Expecially when there is trillions of dollarrs to be made .
Just incase you dont believe me ive named a couple

1605 The Gunpowder Plot
1763 Small pox infected blankets
1810 to 1850 the Underground Railroad
1865 The Assassination of President Abraham Lincoln
1898-1913 Western Water Rights
1913 Federal Reserve Act
1919 Black Sox Scandal
1932 General Motors streetcar conspiracy
1932 to 1972 Tuskegee Syphilis Study
1945 Nazi gold
1950 Project MKULTRA (CIA Mind control)
1953 Operation Midnight Climax
1953 Operation Ajax
1954 Operation PBSUCCESS
1961 Bay of Pigs invasion
1961 The Cuban Project
1967 to ? USS LIBERTY
1969 Secret Bombing of Cambodia
1972 to 1974 Watergate scandal
1975-1999 Indonesian occupation of East Timor
1981 to 1986 Iran-Contra
1993 Assassination plot against President George H.W. Bush
1993 WTC terrorist attack
1995 Oklahoma City bombing
2001 Enron and Arthur Andersen
2004 Secret CIA Prisons
2005 Bernard Ebbers

[Wally]

=>XRQTR

I'm sorry mate, but you've lost me. I wasn't aware I was calling you anything, but if I have I apologise. The subject is a passionate one for sure and very complex.

snappy84 I was looking for Y2K in your list. What a lot of people don't know is that it was a real problem. Many microprocessor applications would have failed had we not rectified them. This was a code anomoly in the real time clocks of many automation systems that were never intended to see the end of the millenium. That is not to say there wasn't a lot of bandwagon profiteering.

[snappy]

y2k it was real just very over dramatised .
My mates vcr stop working , was quite funny

[Charliewool]

Now I HAVE heard it ALL........... Keep away from the beach this summer!!
Really... What do they take us for??

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/979...-enrage-sharks

[|||]

lol stupid scientists. time to ship these egg heads off to a low lying island and let the working man run the place

[SM1DY]

Originally Posted by charliewool

Now I HAVE heard it ALL........... Keep away from the beach this summer!!
Really... What do they take us for??

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/979...-enrage-sharks

How did they measure this particular study?? Ok Steve, the water your in is now 26 degrees, how aggressive are you? Hmmm.....interesting, Steve nodded, now checking my coversion chart.......OMG, Steve is now 15 times more aggressive, I'd hate to have seen him shrug.

[olfella]

That was a real 'scientific' study???
'it is possible that sharks could'... 'we think it is linked to'.... 'long term I would expect them to adapt'... all very scientific!
No wonder the scientists have no credibility.

[MO]

Originally Posted by charliewool

Now I HAVE heard it ALL........... Keep away from the beach this summer!!
Really... What do they take us for??

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/979...-enrage-sharks

OMG....runs screaming get out of the water!! they're not for real??

[XRR 666]

not to be an advocate of any news on a ninemsn sight. but wha'ts the deal with slaggin of the study.

i couldn't see anywhere that said stay away from beaches. that looks like your tabloid headline.

not that i even care, but my housemate has been getting into his fish tank the last few months, and i'm pretty sure its common knowledge with fish breeders that fish get aggresive for a few reasons. In a fish tank for example, temperature does play a role, so does the ph reading of the water. Changing the ph levels can also induce the fish into breeding. My housemate also had too high a ratio of males to females, and that set all the males into a dominating and aggresive mood because they have to compete for the attention of the fishchicks.

i can't even see why you bringing this study up. I could see the tv news turning it into a "don't swim at the beaches this summer' but that article you linked too seemed pretty much factual findings.

anyway carry on, i'm outta here

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by XRR 666

not to be an advocate of any news on a ninemsn sight. but wha'ts the deal with slaggin of the study.

i couldn't see anywhere that said stay away from beaches. that looks like your tabloid headline.

not that i even care, but my housemate has been getting into his fish tank the last few months, and i'm pretty sure its common knowledge with fish breeders that fish get aggresive for a few reasons. In a fish tank for example, temperature does play a role, so does the ph reading of the water. Changing the ph levels can also induce the fish into breeding. My housemate also had too high a ratio of males to females, and that set all the males into a dominating and aggresive mood because they have to compete for the attention of the fishchicks.

i can't even see why you bringing this study up. I could see the tv news turning it into a "don't swim at the beaches this summer' but that article you linked too seemed pretty much factual findings.

anyway carry on, i'm outta here

FFS.. The point wasn't whether or not warming the water in your fishtank makes your guppies, angels or mexican fighting fishies agro..
It was the spin-doctoring that the powers that be stoop to to badger us plebs into believing that unless we do our bit to halt the oceans heating up to spa-tub temps (by accepting the almighty ETS), then we are going to have a JAWS epidemic...
It sensationalist, scare mongering journalism at it's gutter level lowest!
Yell SHARK anywhere and the masses panic!

[XRQTR]

Well I'm sure by now you have all no doubt heard that one of the architects of the Climate Change theory back in the day has come and said that Copenhagen is a waste of time and he hopes it fails.

But I guess that makes me an even bigger conspiracy theorist now, what does that now make him??

He's not going back on what he said just that an ETS is pointless if the worlds governments are to cause any real change.

Also this from Barny J

Originally Posted by BarnabyJoyce

SENATOR BARNABY JOYCE

Leader of the Nationals in the Senate


4th December 2009

Dear Petition Signers

Well we did it! I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your support. What complete insanity the Labor Government was proposing for us. Now we have Dr James Hansen, the grandfather of global warming, saying an ETS is a failure and we have to look for other alternatives.

We all played our part in this massive debate about this massive tax. Make no mistake about it. It is the pressure from you that changed the political complexion in Canberra. Now the Labor Party wants to bring the same bill back again. How is that for contempt for the Senate? Mr Rudd is so arrogant. He just does not understand the word ‘No’.

Because of Mr Rudd, unfortunately I will have to ask you to get ready to fight again. This time we can concentrate on Labor members of Parliament and Labor Senators. So find their names, find their emails and find their telephone numbers and contact them! We are in a new form of participatory democracy and maybe that is the one good thing that has come out of this ETS debate.

In the meantime, Merry Christmas. Thank you once more for your hard work and let’s get ready to go again.

Kind Regards,

Senator Barnaby Joyce

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by charliewool

FFS.. The point wasn't whether or not warming the water in your fishtank makes your guppies, angels or mexican fighting fishies agro..
It was the spin-doctoring that the powers that be stoop to to badger us plebs into believing that unless we do our bit to halt the oceans heating up to spa-tub temps (by accepting the almighty ETS), then we are going to have a JAWS epidemic...
It sensationalist, scare mongering journalism at it's gutter level lowest!
Yell SHARK anywhere and the masses panic!

Forgot to add.... I'd advise keeping your housemate out of his fishtank unless he's PADI certified

[XRR 666]

hah...i'll let him know. i do wonder what he gets up to at nights sometimes. he's way too obsessed with that thing.

i see your point re earlier post. I didn't read the address bar up the top of the page that states "climate-change-could-enrage-sharks". I'm assuming the link they had on the main page was something as equally as !!shocking!!. I just read the article body and didn't seem very bad especially for nine msn. I stopped myself from being exposed to mainstream media/jounalism years ago. It makes me sick.

you can also assume from the words in the article that what seemed like a pretty run of the mill experiment needed some more punch so they asked the scientist about sharks too, hence the "it is possible that sharks could....

gotta love the media for the fear mongering ay

[XRQTR]

Ok Let's see here:

Originally Posted by Dr"Biro"

Research conducted by the University of New South Wales found that a slight lift in water temperatures — just two or three degrees — can cause some fish to become up to 30 times more aggressive than they normally would be.

The studies were conducted on young damsel fish, but head researcher Dr Peter Biro told ninemsn it is possible that sharks could also undergo a similar transformation in warm water.

"I would imagine that it might also affect sharks ... we think it is linked to the metabolism of the fishes — it increases their need to feed," Dr Biro said

Did the research team also take into account the number of fisherman, game fisherman hunting shark, burleighing up in these same waters, attracting the big "fishes".

I mean come on, even his name sounds dodgey, wasn't there something on Aunty recently about certain papers and online editorials producing their own "research" and using fairly proposterous names in the case they ever got busted they could say it was a prank?? I think they got it from that song Dr Worm.

And sorry Dr "Biro", but FISH is one of a very few words in the English language that remains FISH in both the singular and the plural use of the word, maybe you should research that next, other words that fall in that category.

Originally Posted by DRr"Fish"

The research involved putting the damsel fish in varying temperatures of water and placing other fish behind glass to see how they reacted.

Dr Biro said it was "obvious" the warmer water had an effect.

"Some fish would literally charge at the glass," he said.

"I'm quite confident that if the glass was not there they would have torn the other fish to shreds."

Umm how about the fish can sense the cooler temperature of the glass and were simply trying to get to the cooler side of the enclosure, might that be a "possible" conclusion also??

Originally Posted by Dr"Biro"

While some fish showed extreme aggressive reaction to the warm water, others did not react at all.

The majority of the fish tested appeared to be at least twice as aggressive in the warm water.

Riiiight, so what was that majority figure exactly, I mean Abbot won by majority, of one, was it a small majority, a large majority, an overwhelming majority???? Please I need numbers, need to input data, need figures, must make graph, can't function with....out...........full.............research... .......findings..........arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Just another example of only releasing enough to give the findings relevance, make it easier for the masses to understand, why bore them with actual or exact figures.

Ok, ok I was going to leave this out but what the hell, I'll have a crack:

Originally Posted by Dr"Biro"

He predicted the increased aggression caused by climate change would cause some fish populations to dwindle, but it would eventually correct itself.

"They would experience declines in the short term ... but long term i would expect them to adapt," he said.

The test also exposed previously unknown behavioural traits that exist among the damsel fish species.

Ummmm I would rekn that they might just try to find cooler temperate waters, hmm I wonder if that's why the Asian fisherman are heading further South to catch the same fish they once did further North, in relation to us but actually closer to them.

But ye I'm just an idiot, what would I possibly know :

[sarrge2001]

Originally Posted by charliewool

Now I HAVE heard it ALL........... Keep away from the beach this summer!!
Really... What do they take us for??

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/979...-enrage-sharks

"Finding Nemo II - Attack of the Clownfish"

But seriously folks........ :

[DoreSlamR]

Originally Posted by charliewool

Now I HAVE heard it ALL........... Keep away from the beach this summer!!
Really... What do they take us for??

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/world/979...-enrage-sharks

This sounds just like the research that was done in a recent episode of South Park.

It involved a water park, monkeys and bananas....those that saw the episode will know what I'm talking about.

[gtfpv]

enough about hot fish . ;ets get to the real agenda here .
SUNDAY TELEGRAPH . PAGE#42 . TOPIC: " FARMER FIGHTS CARBON RULING ".

[snappy]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

enough about hot fish . ;ets get to the real agenda here .
SUNDAY TELEGRAPH . PAGE#42 . TOPIC: " FARMER FIGHTS CARBON RULING ".

care to elaborate or post a link or somthing