Workers to vote against pay cut to save Holden

[fte50]

Very very wrong trust me, this ain't a bankrupt liquidation. Assets are backed by GM global, were not talking a $2. company here.
Infact a redundancy will include a lot of cream and GM will ensure it as to not burn their bridges with the wider oz public.
Hence why they're trying 4 cuts, so the "exit fee" is substantially less.

[MAD]

Would an exit in 2016 with reduced benefits be better than full benefits but closing next year?

[fte50]

That's upto the membership, but generally no. But do you take the cut knowing your down $200pw for the next 3yrs + super + penalties, and all aspects of your redundancy payout will be on a lesser rate ?

[MAD]

At least you'd know you have a job while you prepare to work in the real world.

Is that what they're asking, $200pw?

[gtfpv]

where are holden workers working . ? on the moon or something .
and i would think manufacturing cars would be a pretty REAL job , before they move onto . ringing a contractor to get something done .

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by GREGL

Your last paragraph just shows why belonging to a union has a certain smell about it ,and its not roses . 24 % of the Australian workforce belong to a union . crikey how do the rest of us survive .
The rest of the post however I gather is tongue in cheek . You do realise copying a document word for word is called plagiarism ! Or is indoctrinating the word I am thinking of comrade.

edited

[Bossxr8]

Just come back from a union meeting today (just became a union rep), and one of the Holden blokes is adamant they will be closing 2015. If that's the rumblings coming from someone at the coalface then things look very grim. The election result will also have a huge bearing on this cause the Libs won't cave to Holdens demands.

[bigwil]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Just come back from a union meeting today (just became a union rep), and one of the Holden blokes is adamant they will be closing 2015. If that's the rumblings coming from someone at the coalface then things look very grim. The election result will also have a huge bearing on this cause the Libs won't cave to Holdens demands.

Im voting Libs

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Just come back from a union meeting today (just became a union rep), and one of the Holden blokes is adamant they will be closing 2015. If that's the rumblings coming from someone at the coalface then things look very grim. The election result will also have a huge bearing on this cause the Libs won't cave to Holdens demands.

How have we let it come to this?

[FormulaFG]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Just come back from a union meeting today (just became a union rep), and one of the Holden blokes is adamant they will be closing 2015. If that's the rumblings coming from someone at the coalface then things look very grim. The election result will also have a huge bearing on this cause the Libs won't cave to Holdens demands.

If that's true then its ironic after the hard time Ford copped (particularly from Holden circles) for announcing that they are leaving in 2016 that Holden might beat them to the gate.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by FormulaFG

If that's true then its ironic after the hard time Ford copped (particularly from Holden circles) for announcing that they are leaving in 2016 that Holden might beat them to the gate.

And try and worm their way out of responsibilities to their workers. Dirty GM scum.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

your redundancy would be whatever money is leftover after everyone else has taken their share before the workers. the workers will be the last to dip into the bucket once a company closes. i think things like long service may be protected by the govt, but redundancies..... good luck if the company claim they are broke etc.

Usually they have it paid into separate accounts, thats what the AMWU pushes for, which is only for worker entitlements.

Its in the EBA, so when the company plays dirty, you get your money in the end.

As much as I hate the Liberal party and what they stand for, I say good on them for not caving into Holden's demands.

[BHDOGS]

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/busine...-1226692359323

thought this was worth posting here seems like there trying to going back to normal peoples conditions you know like the rest of australia with this deal instead of there special manufacturing conditions.

[MITCHAY]

Sounds like one of those jump rather than be pushed situations to me.

I would be looking for employment elsewhere or at the very least trying to gain more skills to be honest unless I were close to retirement age.

[P6LTD351]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Just come back from a union meeting today (just became a union rep), and one of the Holden blokes is adamant they will be closing 2015. If that's the rumblings coming from someone at the coalface then things look very grim. The election result will also have a huge bearing on this cause the Libs won't cave to Holdens demands.

And neither should the Libs or any Party cave to their demands.

So, Holden are saying it comes down to whether they can get $15m dollars worth of savings from employees as to whether they will invest $1billion for the cars post 2016?

I don't get it. If you are investing $1billion, $15m is a drop in the ocean!

Holden are going, and (workers aside) I say - good riddance.

Go back to the company that you started as - a coach builder and building other makes of cars including Ford. Maybe they can build the FH Falcon.

[P6LTD351]

I'm no unionist by any means, but if these workers agree to pay cuts, they are stupid. Holden are GONE and I resent the fact that my dollars are going to pay for a company that does not want to stay in Australia.

Goodbye.

[Franco Cozzo]

First-year apprentices - the lowest paid workers at the factory - will also be hit hard.

Interesting, a workmate of mine was a line manager at Holden in Port Melbourne before they went under, he was mentioning the first year apprentices started on very good wages, about $20/hour.

So under this EBA they'd go from presumably $20/hour back to $7.05 an hour....

[nstg8a]

Originally Posted by fte50

Obviously not to good at all, if gauging the majority of the anti union forum members sentiments on here is any sign, whinging that Auto Industry / Holden workers pay & conditions being way too high.

Yes, pay and conditions so high its a contributing factor to local manufacturing ending for ever...
Now there's something the unionists can be proud of aye.

[stazza]

Originally Posted by GREGL

Your last paragraph just shows why belonging to a union has a certain smell about it ,and its not roses . 24 % of the Australian workforce belong to a union . crikey how do the rest of us survive.

Because the rest of you scabs reap the benefits the unions and it's members fight for. I personally have seen some achievements that the union has fought and negotiated for, and I'm happy to pay my weekly small union fee. It's a big **** off when we all walk out the gate and put our jobs on the line so we can get what we deserve and level the playing field and the rest of the scabs walk in the gate and go to work while reaping the benefits we put our jobs on the line for.

The people that comment against this subject have either never worked in a union backed job, are they're yes men and bag out the unionists but don't say a thanks to the union for negotiating the nice big fat pay check they get every week.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by stazza

Because the rest of you scabs reap the benefits the unions and it's members fight for. I personally have seen some achievements that the union has fought and negotiated for, and I'm happy to pay my weekly small union fee. It's a big **** off when we all walk out the gate and put our jobs on the line so we can get what we deserve and level the playing field and the rest of the scabs walk in the gate and go to work while reaping the benefits we put our jobs on the line for.

The people that comment against this subject have either never worked in a union backed job, are they're yes men and bag out the unionists but don't say a thanks to the union for negotiating the nice big fat pay check they get every week.

Scab? Scabbing what?
I work long hours each and every day and this is not limited to the office either, the work comes home with me.
I didn't scab anything off anyone, I studied 22 years to get where I am and still continue to undertake study to advance.
I don't need to ride on the coat tails of a few (like yourself) from back when, like many others I negotiate my own way and let my work and skills do the talking.

[BHDOGS]

Must be good for the well educated and highly skilled such as yourself to enjoy the fruits of your labour but the rest of the unwashed dont have your luxury thats the problem with the officer workers with there corporate companys and structures all looking after themselves they forget about the rest of the country who had to band together to get the rights they deserve at work. And now that they have those rights the rich spit on them for not wanting to give it up to secure more money for over paid executives oh i mean keep there jobs after all whats 200 a week to those who set there own wages.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

Yes, pay and conditions so high its a contributing factor to local manufacturing ending for ever...
Now there's something the unionists can be proud of aye.

We have covered this topic 10 fold yet some folks are far to ignorant to accept our wages/conditions are perhaps the least of contributing factors in Australia.

I honestly don't expect folks not involved in the industry to know better, hell I don't pretend to know something I have no experiences in, but I get ****ed at listening to all the 'experts' on here making ridiculous statements that simply aren't true / or apply to this topics scenario.

Take it as you like but manufacturers are leaving due to corporate greed and global policies much bigger than Australia's political system - Final.

And yes, Unionists can be proud for all the conditions gained and improved.
But if what you say holds any truth, even you are guilty of contributing to the demise of manufacturing if you have ever applied safe working practices, accepted penalty rates, holidays and the like, even half of the basic awards entitlements was originally won by the unions.

So before passing judgement on others, perhaps look closer to home as you might have some unionist dna within you.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Must be good for the well educated and highly skilled such as yourself to enjoy the fruits of your labour but the rest of the unwashed dont have your luxury thats the problem with the officer workers with there corporate companys and structures all looking after themselves they forget about the rest of the country who had to band together to get the rights they deserve at work. And now that they have those rights the rich spit on them for not wanting to give it up to secure more money for over paid executives oh i mean keep there jobs after all whats 200 a week to those who set there own wages.

Oh please, the majority of people in this country have the opportunity to do well in life, it is just their attitude and commitment that determines where they go. Too many don't want to put in the long hours during their schooling and during their working careers, they would rather complain about the people that do and succeed. Tall poppy syndrome nothing more.
I come from a blue collar family, that has struggled to make ends meet, that nearly lost the house in the hard times. There is no point wallowing in the sorrows, it is up to one person to break the cycle.

[BHDOGS]

Thats another fallacy from the top that the people at the bottom didnt work hard enough they are lazy, not determined its there own fault nobody has a reason to be at the bottom except for there lazyness. Let them eat cake!

[fte50]

Originally Posted by Wretched

I don't need to ride on the coat tails of a few (like yourself) from back when, like many others I negotiate my own way and let my work and skills do the talking.

Originally Posted by Wretched

Oh please, the majority of people in this country have the opportunity to do well in life, it is just their attitude and commitment that determines where they go. .

Correct, commitment and determination ensures we do not accept 3rd world standards in our Australian working life, irrespective of industry.
And we achieve that collectively.

But always remember, the only reason you have the ability to bat for yourself is coz a few good people before you put in the hard yards of cleaning the mess and creating an acceptable datum / platform from which people like yourselves and everyone else can grow.

"Everything starts and finishes with the soldier".

[ratter]

some very deluded opinions in this thread, it needs to be closed before it gets too personal

[gtfpv]

One thing about anti unionists is they always use themselves as an example . Typical really . Most of them have lots of I's and me in thier conversations . Unionists always talk about people. The anti unionists never get it. Shame really . Because as has been said they get what the unionists fight for and take all the glory themselves. These type of people dont guve a toss about others . Its evidential in thier own bragging

[prydey]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

One thing about anti unionists is they always use themselves as an example . Typical really . Most of them have lots of I's and me in thier conversations . Unionists always talk about people. The anti unionists never get it. Shame really . Because as has been said they get what the unionists fight for and take all the glory themselves. These type of people dont guve a toss about others . Its evidential in thier own bragging

the irony of this is that unionists don't care for the greater good of the company they boycott.

more bosses should be like alan joyce and just call your bluff. plenty of people out there willing to work, so if someone doesn't want to do it for whatever reason, show them the door and get someone who will.

unionists keep pointing to holiday, shift loadings, 40hr weeks, etc etc etc, but please, tell me when all these things were implemented and what have unions done in the last 40years??

toothless tiger springs to mind. non unionists are apparently the ones that are selfish, and yet unionists are the ones who picket because they don't get a ridiculous pay rise every year.

[MAD]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

One thing about anti unionists is they always use themselves as an example . Typical really . Most of them have lots of I's and me in thier conversations . Unionists always talk about people. The anti unionists never get it. Shame really . Because as has been said they get what the unionists fight for and take all the glory themselves. These type of people dont guve a toss about others . Its evidential in thier own bragging

And why do people join a union? To protect their own ****. They don't join for their mates, they join for themselves.

The union bosses may have some deluded idea that they care for the workers, but the workers just want protection.

Do I get car insurance for anyone else but me? nope.

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by prydey

the irony of this is that unionists don't care for the greater good of the company they boycott.

more bosses should be like alan joyce and just call your bluff. plenty of people out there willing to work, so if someone doesn't want to do it for whatever reason, show them the door and get someone who will.

unionists keep pointing to holiday, shift loadings, 40hr weeks, etc etc etc, but please, tell me when all these things were implemented and what have unions done in the last 40years??

toothless tiger springs to mind. non unionists are apparently the ones that are selfish, and yet unionists are the ones who picket because they don't get a ridiculous pay rise every year.

penalty rates annual leave , shift loadings etc 38 hour weeks we all do get , union or not . look up the fair trading website .
are you saying they are rights that we as australians should not be entitled to .
it seems you are saying that these are all rorts brought on by wickedness and tooothless tigers , and bosses should take all of these away and show people the door .
as that what your saying .

cause Prydey . the anti unionist once again boasts that people as a collective are wrong expecting fairness and anti exploitation at work , and there are plenty of other people out there . the i's and the me's happy to come in and work for less on saturdays etc . thinking that they have higher morals towards thier employers because they will give away australian awards etc .