Workers to vote against pay cut to save Holden

[prydey]

reading comprehension not one of your strong points

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by prydey

reading comprehension not one of your strong points

more likely of pointed out some facts in your post and hit a raw nerve

[prydey]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

expecting fairness

the term 'fair' gets used a lot by you lot.

when my kids say something isn't fair, i tell them to get over it because life isn't fair.

bludger unionist notices that non unionist drives a nice car and has a nice house. bludger unionist decides its 'not fair' that non unionist can live like that whilst he can't, so bludger unionist goes on strike so that conditions are more 'fair'!!

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by prydey

the term 'fair' gets used a lot by you lot.

when my kids say something isn't fair, i tell them to get over it because life isn't fair.

bludger unionist notices that non unionist drives a nice car and has a nice house. bludger unionist decides its 'not fair' that non unionist can live like that whilst he can't, so bludger unionist goes on strike so that conditions are more 'fair'!!

you shoiuld have a talk to alan jones he thinks workers superannuation isnt fair , penalty rates isnt fair , , talk to some employers of migrant backgrounds where they come from and what thier employers deemed fair . and yes they are not different people . they are human and in the 21st century .
i'm sure they well tell you quite happily if you dont think it is fair get over it .
but you seem to think your morals superseed all of that .
anyways stick to your own little job ,enjoy the conditions that you have and remember as you turn up every day , people like me got them for you . people like you can hold your head up a little because of this , otherwise shot to the **** pile .

[prydey]

Originally Posted by gtfpv

people like me got them for you

umm, no, you didn't!!

which was the point of my previous post that you failed to comprehend. unionists are like a broken record and always bring up the 'benefits' that 'they' got for us.

what have the unions done in the last 40years?

and since you bring up the topic of migrants, next time you see one working, have a look at their work ethic and the gratitude for simply having a job. unionists could learn a thing or two.

[gtfpv]

umm, no, you didn't!!

yes you are right i didn't . people like me did some time ago.

what have the unions done in the last 40years?

do some research , it is like a broken record you will never get it .

and since you bring up the topic of migrants, next time you see one working, have a look at their work ethic and the gratitude for simply having a job. unionists could learn a thing or two.

that would be my father, very grateful for what this country gave him through working here and being a union member .

[stazza]

Originally Posted by MAD

And why do people join a union? To protect their own ****. They don't join for their mates, they join for themselves.

The union bosses may have some deluded idea that they care for the workers, but the workers just want protection.

Do I get car insurance for anyone else but me? nope.

Obviously you haven't joined a union or been on a union job. You'll find its the opposite. Ive been in my fair share of drama at work and all the union boys are the first to lend a hand and help out. The other non unionists run off and hide.

it's easy enough to sit back and speak out about the union, but I work on a job with 6000 people and not many, IF any have been done wrong by the union. I know from the outside looking in it looks like the union asks for a bit much and stirs the pot a bit much but unless you know what youre talking about then kindly stfu.

[stazza]

Originally Posted by prydey

what have the unions done in the last 40years?

Go on any construction site and ask that. Just because it isnt in the paper or in the news doesn't mean they haven't done anything. They negotiate the EBA and win us better conditions. We work 10 hour days with 3 hours of that paid overtime every day. Do you really think our company would've simply offered us that out of good faith and a kind gesture? Our company doesn't cover us to and from work. The union does. There's so many more points to this than you'd even know. If you knew then we wouldn't be having this conversation.

The reason we want what we deserve is because we are skilled and go above and beyond to get jobs done. Sometimes even get asked to go against the same rules they prosecute us with to get the job done.

Skilled labour isn't cheap and cheap labour isn't skilled.

[MAD]

I didn't say they wouldn't help. I merely pointed out the reasoning for choosing to join in response to gtfpv's claim that union people think about everyone but themselves and bring peace, happiness and puppies to the world.
It's just insurance.

I don't care what you think about any non-unionist, whether they deserve their pay, or conditions, or whatever. In the same vein I would think someone brought it on themselves if they didn't buy car insurance and got themselves in financial trouble.
You too can feel the same way about a non-unionist being exploited/sacked/whatever.

But don't try and paint it that being a member makes you a god to workers of Australia.
Maybe being a leader has some credential, but a member is their for their own benefit only.

[xr6turboford]

Originally Posted by prydey

umm, no, you didn't!!

which was the point of my previous post that you failed to comprehend. unionists are like a broken record and always bring up the 'benefits' that 'they' got for us.

what have the unions done in the last 40years?

and since you bring up the topic of migrants, next time you see one working, have a look at their work ethic and the gratitude for simply having a job. unionists could learn a thing or two.

Don't know where you've been the last 40yrs, but have a read of this site
and yes I have in the past gone on strike to help myself and OTHERS get
a fair and safe working environment. I do agree that at times the unions
can go over the top but as they say the good and the bad it's in all of us!
http://www.australianunions.org.au/achievements

[gtfpv]

good to see unionists here posting links with facts . non unionists see the world through thier own eyes and cannot see past themselves and thier own circumstances . i know i was a non unionist once and didnt see the point of being in a union . somehow people think that anyone in charge is a saint who brings gifts of good will to people . every word i can think of , of people who think you get exactly what you deserve from the bosses is band on this forum . sometimes i just want to shake some people and say WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU , but evcen that wont work some people are just freeking idiots .
best they can come up with is a jealous whinge and self justification . LOL .

this is what non unionism is all about . its hard to believe it but those boasting how bad unions are support this kind've stuff .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7E9jL_sZZbg

[stazza]

Originally Posted by MAD

I didn't say they wouldn't help. I merely pointed out the reasoning for choosing to join in response to gtfpv's claim that union people think about everyone but themselves and bring peace, happiness and puppies to the world.
It's just insurance.

I don't care what you think about any non-unionist, whether they deserve their pay, or conditions, or whatever. In the same vein I would think someone brought it on themselves if they didn't buy car insurance and got themselves in financial trouble.
You too can feel the same way about a non-unionist being exploited/sacked/whatever.

But don't try and paint it that being a member makes you a god to workers of Australia.
Maybe being a leader has some credential, but a member is their for their own benefit only.

Yet you paint us all as self serving toothless tigers, whingers etc...? Seriously, What would you know?

and you did say they wouldn't help, just not in those words. You claimed they join a union solely for themselves and no one else when in fact it's the opposite.

[gtfpv]

rather than shut this thread . id much rather mods delete this if they feel the need . but you anti unionist need to know the facts before you boast .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMxBZBuMW4s

[ratter]

Lock the thread, it's useless

same rubbish going back and forwards now
Unions are good!
Unions are Bad!
Unions saved the world!
Unions are a bunch of bullies!


fact is Australia is becoming a country that is too expensive to produce anything. Non skilled workers want to earn as much as people that spend years schooling themselves and putting in 60+ hours a week.
People want to buy stuff from ebay or overseas and then want to earn top dollar here, yep working out real well isn't it?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prydey

toothless tiger springs to mind.

Say that to the Victorian branch of the CFMEU and try cross their picket line.

Those guys are bordering on criminal.

There is a lot of Jack's law getting around these days, which is mainly from anti-unionists.

**** you Jack, I'm OK.

[PepeLePew]

I'd suggest a few here stop posting around about HERE.

Go away, settle the nerves, come back later.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by ratter

Lock the thread, it's useless

same rubbish going back and forwards now
Unions are good!
Unions are Bad!
Unions saved the world!
Unions are a bunch of bullies!


fact is Australia is becoming a country that is too expensive to produce anything. Non skilled workers want to earn as much as people that spend years schooling themselves and putting in 60+ hours a week.
People want to buy stuff from ebay or overseas and then want to earn top dollar here, yep working out real well isn't it?

Wages only make a small percentage of a vehicles costs to build. It's the massive rises in electricity, gas, ridiculous government red tape and all the other crap that is making it so expensive to make cars here.

But go ahead and blame it unions, it just easier.

We used to have some of the cheapest electricity prices in the world which gave our industries a big advantage, but now they are one of the most expensive. A big thank you needs to go out to the useless greenies.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by prydey

the irony of this is that unionists don't care for the greater good of the company they boycott.

more bosses should be like alan joyce and just call your bluff. plenty of people out there willing to work, so if someone doesn't want to do it for whatever reason, show them the door and get someone who will.

unionists keep pointing to holiday, shift loadings, 40hr weeks, etc etc etc, but please, tell me when all these things were implemented and what have unions done in the last 40years??

toothless tiger springs to mind. non unionists are apparently the ones that are selfish, and yet unionists are the ones who picket because they don't get a ridiculous pay rise every year.

How any "fool" can openly suggest a group of people could be willing to burn their employer or the hand that feeds them is more proof yet that people like yourselves and your high 5 mates have such a distorted view on reality there can simply be no constructive arguments.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by MAD

And why do people join a union? To protect their own ****. They don't join for their mates, they join for themselves.

The union bosses may have some deluded idea that they care for the workers, but the workers just want protection.

Do I get car insurance for anyone else but me? nope.

Originally Posted by MAD

I didn't say they wouldn't help. I merely pointed out the reasoning for choosing to join in response to gtfpv's claim that union people think about everyone but themselves and bring peace, happiness and puppies to the world.
It's just insurance.

I don't care what you think about any non-unionist, whether they deserve their pay, or conditions, or whatever. In the same vein I would think someone brought it on themselves if they didn't buy car insurance and got themselves in financial trouble.
You too can feel the same way about a non-unionist being exploited/sacked/whatever.

But don't try and paint it that being a member makes you a god to workers of Australia.
Maybe being a leader has some credential, but a member is their for their own benefit only.

These arguments, claims, are infact further proof of the inept experts dribbling fobble on the unknown.

Seriously, you should be embarrassed posting dribble like that on a public forum.
Never late to gain an education.

[MAD]

Typical unionist response too.
Responding with insults and personal attacks.

But you're right, its probably not the only reason people join, I'm sure there are also those that are forced in to joining by pressure and bullying by work'mates'.

[Bossxr8]

Yeah, non unionists would never respond with insults and personal attacks would they. What a silly thing to say.

[MAD]

As soon as the "union" is questioned, or its relevance is disagreed on, that is generally what comes back.
I've seen it so many times. There's a reason generalisations become generalisations.

[fte50]

Originally Posted by MAD

Typical unionist response too.
Responding with insults and personal attacks.

But you're right, its probably not the only reason people join, I'm sure there are also those that are forced in to joining by pressure and bullying by work'mates'.

Actually, you have started the personal attacks by implying my non worth etc because I chose to belong to a union.
Doesn't really worry me though, been dealt harsher blows.

Just remember one thing - more often than not it takes a person to be employed to belong to a union, unlike many on the dole - now safe 2 say that 99% of em are like all u anti unionists on here.
Yes very stupid argument, designed to show you can't pass judgement on what you don't know, so everyone give it a rest.

[MAD]

Originally Posted by fte50

Actually, you have started the personal attacks by implying my non worth etc because I chose to belong to a union.
Doesn't really worry me though, been dealt harsher blows.

I'm interested to know where I implied this.
If anything I have said could be seen as such, I'm certainly sure I didn't single anyone out.

[stazza]

MAD believes everything he reads in the paper about the big bad unions. Despite seeing proof on here of the kind of massive pay rises execs and the like recieve. Why is it so bad that we ask for small pay rises to compensate for more expensive bills etc.. we are after all out there doing the work, sometimes risking our lives to do it.

But wages is nothing, thats just the tip of the iceberg. Not that you would know

[Franco Cozzo]

Also a union is only as strong as its members, more people - better results.

[ratter]

union or no union, if a business has to give pay rises to all it's staff, whether productive or non productive workers, then they have to put their product prices up, the people that purchase these products can no longer afford them as easily and have to ask their boss's for a pay rise and so it goes on and on and on until it affects the original workers again and they have to ask for another pay rise

[stazza]

It's funny how everyone is bagging the union over the decisions made for the Holden workers. But if any of the critics knew anything, they would know the workers are making the decisions. It's not like the union is holding a gun to the workers' heads. The union would negotiate with Holden and find the best possible outcomes, and the workers decide what their own fate. If anyone thinks the workers had any more choices than the union put on the table then you're kidding yourself. As stated above. The union is the people, the bloke you see on TV is just the guy representing the workers and giving them a voice.

Get a clue.

[stazza]

Originally Posted by ratter

union or no union, if a business has to give pay rises to all it's staff, whether productive or non productive workers, then they have to put their product prices up, the people that purchase these products can no longer afford them as easily and have to ask their boss's for a pay rise and so it goes on and on and on until it affects the original workers again and they have to ask for another pay rise

Did you not see the post about the bosses getting massive pay packages?

If the smallest pay rises for the workers had ANY effect then why would they dish out massive pay rises for the big wigs?

[MrEL]

Number one rule with any union is "United we bargain , divided we beg".
For all the union bashing that goes on here , the people doing so are either not doing as well as they can for themselves or have flip top heads and no gag reflex.
No one holds a gun to anyones head. Employers are happy to give out things to their employees, that to the people outside the goldfish bowl and don't know the full story seem extravagant.
A happy workforce is a productive workforce.
My employer changed us all to unlimited sick leave through EBA bargaining if people are genuinely sick. Seems somewhat radical doesn't it?
Well after 12 months the sick leave liability in the company actually dropped massively! People started to do sports etc that they didn't do before because they were worried about injuries and only having 10 sick days a year. Well people got healthier and were happier at work and it actually created loyalty.
The employees saw people who got injured or severly ill looked after by the company , and did that little bit more at work to look after those who look after you.
It does go both ways.