NSW introduces P Plate ban on high performance vehicles

[Dave_au]

I know we've had this discussion before, and its been covered, but Michael Costa has confirmed the changes this morning:

Originally Posted by Sydney Morning Herald [url

http://www.smh.com.au/news/National/NRMA-slams-Pplate-restrictions/2005/06/07/1117910274905.html][/url] ]

NRMA slams P-plate restrictions
By David Higgins and AAP
June 7, 2005 - 9:57AM

The NRMA has criticised a Government plan to ban young P-platers from driving high-powered cars.

NSW Roads Minister Michael Costa this morning announced changes for provisional drivers, with a particular focus on younger drivers.

P1 and P2 drivers will be banned from driving cars of eight or more cylinders, or vehicles with souped up engines.

The ban on V8 cars "meant that many family cars would now be off-limits to P platers, making life harder for young students, young parents and workers who only have access to one car", the NRMA said in a statement.

Some older V8 cars "are less powerful than modern cars with six cylinder engines", NRMA chief Tony Stuart said. "Some V8 family cars and four-wheel-drives also have greater safety features than smaller cars."

Country motorists would be "disenfranchised" by the decision to ban all new P platers except workers from driving a V8 car, NRMA director Graham Blight added.

"Everyone who lives and works in country NSW knows that bush roads are worse than city roads and that thousands of rural families have V8 cars," Mr Blight said.

"We need stronger cars for farm work and many property roads are nothing more than dirt tracks. It's impractical and unfair to ban P platers from driving V8s when they are required to help out on the family property."

However, the NRMA backed other changes announced by Mr Costa.

P-platers who have their licence disqualified will be limited to carrying one passenger for the first 12 months after the licence is reinstated.

The changes were designed to address the "optimism bias" of young drivers, Mr Costa said.

"We need to change attitudes, we need young drivers, novice drivers particularly, to understand that they do have what the experts call an optimism bias," he told ABC radio.

"They believe they can conquer the world with their new licence but that's not the case in terms of the skills they have."

The NRMA supported restrictions on turbo and super turbo-charged vehicles and exemptions for P platers using a company car and self-employed workers, Mr Stuart said.

"Minister Costa's decision not to introduce a blanket ban on powerful cars in regional areas is promising. NRMA hopes that the Government will be flexible in its definition of rural areas and in its application of an exemption for workers."

Sixteen to 20-year-olds accounted for 7 per cent of all drivers, but were involved in 17 per cent of fatalities, Mr Costa said.

A 17-year-old P1 licence-holder was four times more likely than the average driver to be involved in a fatal crash.

Greater training, demerit point incentives and disincentives, and standardisation of plate positioning would also be looked at as part of the plan, Mr Costa said.

Today's changes come into effect in mid-July.

Mr Costa said other measures, including tougher driver training requirements, were expected to go before state cabinet later this year.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Can you still drive a BA Falcon down there??

I heard that they were even off limits coz of the high power to weight ratio...

[Paris Hilton]

Great. Now people are just going to spend more on neons and stickers rather then the good stuff. Oh well, good thing I don't live in NSW...

Originally Posted by ShockWaveXR6na

Can you still drive a BA Falcon down there??

I heard that they were even off limits coz of the high power to weight ratio...

A list of what you can and can't will be on the RTA NSW website soon.

I'm guessing you still can drive a BA na 6, as they won't be using a power/weight ratio as far as i know, only if it has 8 cylinders or is supercharged/turbo'd.

By the way, the restrictions do not effect current p-plate holders, only if they lose it after July 1, then when they get it back, they have passenger restrictions AFAIK

[Fairlane]

Hell, I've just moved to NSW, is this going to prevent current P-Plater upgrading to a V8?
Bloody Hell

It's bad enough that I have to drive long distances at bloody 90km/h on the F3 and put up with double demerit points.

[Steffo]

You know what's really stupid about this law. It bans you from driving say, a 220kW BA Falcon XT V8, low 15 sec car, not really that fast or difficult to drive.

But, if your daddy is rich, he can go out and buy you a Porsche 911 GT3 Clubsport, with 280kW of 3.6litre flat-6 (n/a, so its ok!) and about 1200kg, which is faster then a VZ Clubby or BA GT, and harder to drive then either of those two cars.

Then there's all the people who's family only has one car, say a 351 XD, and they won't be able to drive it because its a V8... what if they can't afford to get anything else?

Stupid stupid stupid.

[Dave_au]

The 90Km/h secton is about as half as long as what it used to be, it once went all the way past the Mt White exit.

Everyone will find a loophole - all their cars will become company cars or self employed.

Otherwise the "sports" v6s like the Magna VRX, Commy S and maybe the AU XR6HP will soon become the P Plate colt cars.

[Spaniard]

At least in Victoria you could apply for an exemption!

[Dez]

as mentioned in the article, cars like the BA falcon have more power than older V8's anyway.... and I like how they limit the 8 or more cylinders.....haven't seen to many p platers cruising round in V10's lately....

[stiddy]

IM sure your all aware of the NEW p plater rules coming in the 11 of July.

There is going to be a Mass protest on saturday the 20th of this month
For all the P platers.
People and there cars high performance and not will be showing up at either penrith blacktown and parramatta RTA's

im not organising im just telling you what ive been told..

[santoitaliano]

all cars have the ability to cause damage. whether it takes you 7 seconds or 12 seconds to get to 100kph, you will get there...

why not try to educate mindless ****s, why not make the drivers better instead of sheltering them until they fit into another age group..

damn.. if i lived in sydney i couldnt drive my grandfathers NC fairlane..

power to weight was at least reasonable..

there is always a loophole.. we wil just start to see more souped up NA 4's and 6's..

cheers,

[Fairlane]

Man these guys must have been hypnotised by Harold Scruby. I guess these guys think a Rover 3500 V8 is a sports car. Power to weight at least made sense.

[Dave_au]

From The Daily Terrorgraph (http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117...7-1242,00.html):

Originally Posted by DT

P-PLATERS will be banned from driving a range of high-powered cars on New South Wales roads and some will face passenger restrictions under new laws announced today.

NSW Roads Minister Michael Costa said the measures were aimed at curbing the disproportionately high road toll of P-plate drivers.
According to the Roads and Traffic Authority, a 17-year-old P1 licence-holder is four times more likely than the average driver to be involved in a fatal crash.

From July 11, P1 and P2 drivers will be banned from driving cars with eight or more cylinders or vehicles with performance modified, turbo-charged or super-charged engines.

Exemptions will apply to P-platers driving high-powered vehicles for employment purposes and to some P-platers in remote and regional areas.

Any P-plater who has their licence disqualified will be limited to carrying one passenger for the first 12 months after it is reinstated.

The changes will not effect current P-platers.

Proposed curfews will not be introduced.

The measures were sensible and balanced a range of needs, Mr Costa said.

"I quite often see young people shooting up the F3 at great excess of the posted speed limit in high-performance vehicles and we want to make that a thing of the past," he told reporters.

"It's a lethal cocktail once you get a novice driver, inexperienced driver, in a high-performance vehicle."

The government will also be introducing the standardisation of plate positioning and toughening up penalties for people who don't display their plates properly.

The NRMA today welcomed some of the changes but expressed concerns that some law-abiding young people may be disadvantaged, particularly in households where family cars are high-powered.

Kristy Delaney, executive officer of the Youth Action and Policy Association, agreed, saying the new laws would unfairly restrict some young people.

"So many of life's opportunities depend on young people's ability to access transport," she said.

"We don't want to see anyone's opportunities become limited because they are not allowed to drive their parent's cars."

Mr Costa said he understood that some people would be unduly affected but said the government "had to draw the line somewhere".

Central Coast resident Rebecca Stanford, 24, who was left in coma for a week after a P-plater crash in 1999, joined Mr Costa at the announcement.

She said the measures were "a step in the right direction".

"The anger you might have because you can't drive your V8 is going to be a lot less of a strong emotion than what your parents feel when they get a knock on the door," she said.

NSW opposition roads spokesman Andrew Stoner said the government was ignoring the core issue - driver education.

"Labor's solutions are all punitive and do nothing to encourage or teach proper driver behaviour and educate young drivers to the risks and dangers," he said.

A second stage of measures, including possible changes to driver training, is expected to go before state cabinet in the coming months.

[Dez]

Originally Posted by santoitaliano

there is always a loophole.. we wil just start to see more souped up NA 4's and 6's..

P1 and P2 drivers will be banned from driving cars of eight or more cylinders, or vehicles with souped up engines.

Originally Posted by santoitaliano

why not try to educate mindless ****s, why not make the drivers better instead of sheltering them until they fit into another age group..

because then they'd be admitting flaws in their testing and licensing procedures.

lets all do what steffo said and get NA 6 cylinder porches

[Fairlane]

Well I just moved from QLD, which has no power restrictions, no speed restrictions, less demerit points and reasonable speed limits & no requirement to wear P-plates on your vehicle.

Queensland has not turned into a massive killing field, like Harold Scruby would imagine.

L Platers and P platers for that matter are not sheltered from the real world by having to adhere to stupid speed restrictions or these new power restrictions, like in NSW.

[jonbays]

Its just a dumb **** political stunt.

Get the poor old RTA to F around for good press and brownie points wirh moron voters.

It made sense with motorcylces where it's personal transport but yes cars are company and family use DOH!

There are so few cops actually patrolling now we are in a Camera controlled world who would care.

Honestly no licence wrong licence as long as the comapny pays the fine and nomintes poor old cousin joe from yugoslavia as the driver again what is going to change.

The political fallout in doing the right thing with better driver tarining and licence retraining and testing periodically and after any reportable accident would kill them.

[Polyal]

Sorry guys im going against the grain.

As Im just off my P's, I can understand why people would be annoyed. But if you can come up with a logical reason why a P plater HAS to have a hi-po car then be my guest; and then offer a cost effective alternative.

I love power as much as the next person, but you have your whole life to get a V8/turbo. Im sure for 3 years you can go without.

These people that die young are lets face it, a huge waste of money. Thousands are spent on education etc etc, and then they die! Thats really low and blunt but its true; not to mention the emotion issues for families etc. So, if this is an opportunity to decrease deaths then why not give it a go?

EDIT: forgot to add that I realise that I can cause just as much damage in a barina as a XR6T; but its alot easier to do in the latter.

[dogbreath_48]

turbo and super turbo-charged vehicles

Super turbo!? Gotto get me one of them!

They'll see. This won't fix a thing - not to say they'll de-restrict one day.
I can't remember a single p-plate accident that happened in a V8. Since the 80's, there have been plenty of EFI I6's have been more powerful/as quick as the V8's. Shit theres not even many p-platers that can afford a powerful V8 - if they can they can afford just as powerful a 6.

and if the ban includes turbo diesels, i'll be laughing... (..unless they specify only the super turbo diesels.)

Polyal - wheres my thousands of dollars of education? That little book that tells me how to parallel park?

[jonbays]

But this is stupid and won't work.

I think it valuable for drivers driving on their own to drive a low power car for the first say 50,000km of driving but for some kids who don't own a car this could take years well past p's so wahts the point.

The loop holes will be huge and its unmanageable.

the industry should wake up andget into gear and do something about this.

Hey I am not voting for Bob again. Come on Brogden buy my vote cheap with a sensible new driver policy.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by dogbreath_48

Polyal - wheres my thousands of dollars of education? That little book that tells me how to parallel park?

did your parents pay for your high school/uni costs? Its an extreme example but its true.

Yes people can mod there 4 and 6 cylinders to go just as hard. But if the law comes in, and you mod your car to hell, have an accident that was your fault, and are proven that your car exceeds the "power limit"; then you should be in alot of shyte.

[smoo]

Are blacks over represented in crime in Aussie like they are in NZ?
If so, maybe someone could start up a petition to get em all locked up, or enforce a night time curfew...
Of course, this would only be another way to show the flaws in this ban.

Being a 17 y/o I suppose I wouldn't be abel to drive my uncles ~90hp '34 Ford V8 coupe if I was there :

[Dez]

Originally Posted by smoo

Are blacks over represented in crime in Aussie like they are in NZ?
If so, maybe someone could start up a petition to get em all locked up, or enforce a night time curfew...

:

thats great stuff....exaggerated example, but it gets the point across

[dogbreath_48]

Originally Posted by Polyal

did your parents pay for your high school/uni costs? Its an extreme example but its true.

thought you were referring to driver education...now it makes sense...

I think this is pathetic and i have a Perfect Example to back it up

Step Brother: VT Calais V6 147Kw?, drives like as idiot, shouldn't have a licence, could kill someone.

Mate: VYII SS M6 Soon to be Modded, drives sensibly, never Flogs it around highly populated areas, takes it to quiet back roads, low risk of a speed related Accedent, never had a speeding fine or warning

Friends Boyfriend: VU SS M6, modded drives like step brother but cannot control it and will injure someone one day.

3 Examples but all differnt, you cannot say that they are all good because they arn't, but to ban cars for a minority is stupid

By the way i live in Vic so two of them drive "Over Powered Cars"

[DivHunter]

turbo diesels are still allowed, maybe the pug will take off now :P at 900km a tank why wouldn't they. Oh well at least you can buy turbo car, replace turbo with pipe for 3 years lol. Now NSW will suffer worse than Vic how scary for them. Hmm maybe no driving the skyline to NSW :togo:

[Lukeyson]

Man i thought we were screwed, mine and my wifes cars are V8's, and my wife has 10months to go till she gets off her green p's, but i am glad it only affects those who get their p's after july 11 for our sake, but i can understand why decent driving p platers will be ****ed off

[Psycho Chicken]

My 351 XD would get mauled by a 2.5 litre RS Imprezza. Logic to ban the V8s? Not really.

[FNQracing]

Removing the front 2 ignition leads turns your V8 into a taxi. Consider the loophole covered. it:

[Psycho Chicken]

It even runs on BBQ fuel!

[Rodp]

There are certainly exceptions to the rule where a breathless vintage V8 will look slow next to a 2005 Cooper S, but to make the law complicated would essentially make the law unenforceable.

As already asked. An 18yr old P plater requires a high performance car NOW because...?

I don't need one, but over the years I've developed experience and a handle on impulse control, both of which would far exceed just about every male P plater out there. I do a reasonable amount of driving because of my job so I like to enjoy the car I drive, I'm also capable of affording to keep it roadworthy and insured.

I would support an exemption law. Where there's reasonable grounds for you to own such a car and a required level or experience (be it driver training laws) which gives you an unrestricted P licence.

What did I drive my first few years? 1.3l Escort which wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding, then a 4.1 XD that wasn't all that much better.