One-armed woman "driven" to despair.

PimpMyHubcap · 30-05-2011, 09:59 AM

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/west...-1226064647632

Quote:

A ONE-ARMED woman is grappling with WA transport authorities to be allowed to drive a manual car, despite a decade behind the wheel in the eastern states.

Lisa Murray, who lost the use of her arm in 1993 due to a nerve condition and had the arm amputated several years later, has been driving a manual car with no modifications since 2001 in Queensland.

But since moving to Harvey in the South-West two months ago, she has been told that she can only get a licence for an automatic car and would need to pay at least $500 for a special test. It is money she says she doesn't have.

Ms Murray said she has proved she can drive a manual car with one arm. She drove across three states on her own to settle in Harvey, pregnant and towing a trailer............

This scares the crap out of me as she was tested and they thought it was ok for her to steer with her legs during gear changes?? WTF

I`m all for people with disabilities doing everyday things but when there are cars with automatic gearboxes then common sense should prevail.

2011G6E · 30-05-2011, 10:12 AM

Jesus christ you dumb *****...do every other road user a favour and buy a damn automatic!!!

How the hell did they let her damn well drive a manual anyway?

People with disabilities should indeed be able to do everyday things...unless by trying to prove they are "just like everyone else" (when they aren't) they are putting everyone else at risk and just have to be told "no"...it might sound hard hearted, but that's the blunt truth...

fmc351 · 30-05-2011, 10:19 AM

I used to know a guy who had both arms, but one was for decoration only (left), he wasnt able to drive manual in Qld.

I agree, drive an auto, or catch a bus.

Edit: Apparently she has been approved in Qld by the DMT, all I can say is what the hell is wrong with you people at the DMT in Qld?

2011G6E · 30-05-2011, 10:26 AM

Just thinking about the logistics of it boggles the mind...if it's the left arm she has, how does she fiddle with the indicators and other dash controls on the right side while driving in traffic? If it's the right arem she has, how the hell does she reach across and operate the gearshift and the contols on the left side of the column and dash?

To think that she's out in traffic doing this juggling act while driving a car just stuns me...

iCat · 30-05-2011, 10:26 AM

she steered with her knees while changing gears? god help us if she hits a pot hole at that moment.

just suck it up and get an auto. if you can't afford it save like the rest of us have to.

kaniSS · 30-05-2011, 10:39 AM

You know what's funny she probably will get the licence. Cause it would be politically incorrect to refuse her equal opportunities.

Next it will be a guy with no arms going for a manual licence.

fmc351 · 30-05-2011, 11:01 AM

Whats next, blind truckies?

wait, err ...umm, yeah ... ummm something.

SEZ213 · 30-05-2011, 11:27 AM

What the hell is the $500 for? In addition to an automatic test - seems like someone is just collecting cash for no reason.

I would actually like to see how she does it before I pass judgement, because I doubt it would be any different to the way some other people drive.

flappist · 30-05-2011, 12:00 PM

If she can pass the test then she is allowed to drive.

Last AFF skid pan day I went to showed that more than half the attendees were not capable of controllong their cars on wet surfaces.
Should they be banned form driving just in case it rains?

Being somewhat "challenged" behind the wheel is no reason to not hold a license, if it were there would be less than ten percent of the cars on the road........

StealthAu · 30-05-2011, 12:10 PM

By law you are required to have one hand on the wheel at all times, or so I thought, if that is the case then she simply can not drve a manual without breaking the law.

flappist · 30-05-2011, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StealthAu

By law you are required to have one hand on the wheel at all times, or so I thought, if that is the case then she simply can not drve a manual without breaking the law.

You have an actual reference for that?

StealthAu · 30-05-2011, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

You have an actual reference for that?

No I don't which is why I included the "so I thought" comment. But I'm pretty sure I have come accross it before, will have to have a look and let you know.

PimpMyHubcap · 30-05-2011, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

If she can pass the test then she is allowed to drive.

Last AFF skid pan day I went to showed that more than half the attendees were not capable of controllong their cars on wet surfaces.
Should they be banned form driving just in case it rains?

Being somewhat "challenged" behind the wheel is no reason to not hold a license, if it were there would be less than ten percent of the cars on the road........

I agree but I think the point was more why endanger others when it would be so much easier to use an automatic in her case.

Also it was far easier to get your license back in 1993 in some areas of Queensland as some smaller towns may have been sympathetic her to her disability. I have personally heard of this happening as I got mine back in 1985 up in FNQ and the tester told me some great true stories.

EasyD · 30-05-2011, 12:59 PM

"Ms Murray said she has proved she can drive a manual car with one arm. She drove across three states on her own to settle in Harvey, pregnant and towing a trailer............"

Hats off!

flappist · 30-05-2011, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StealthAu

No I don't which is why I included the "so I thought" comment. But I'm pretty sure I have come accross it before, will have to have a look and let you know.

Possibly it is like the "under no circumstances can you legally exceed the speed limit" dogma hammered into all learner drivers even though it is completely untrue.

Ben73 · 30-05-2011, 01:05 PM

Whats wrong with an Auto?
I think she is just trying to prove that she can still do normal things and still can drive manual.

Good on her for being able to. But just because she can, doesn' t mean she should.

flappist · 30-05-2011, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PimpMyHubcap

I agree but I think the point was more why endanger others when it would be so much easier to use an automatic in her case.

Also it was far easier to get your license back in 1993 in some areas of Queensland as some smaller towns may have been sympathetic her to her disability. I have personally heard of this happening as I got mine back in 1985 up in FNQ and the tester told me some great true stories.

Sort of like "Why endanger others by driving old technology motor vehicles that are not fitted with crumple zones, air bags, ABS or DSC?"
It would be so much safer to get rid of all the pre 2000 Falcons and drive hybrid camrys instead.......

burnz · 30-05-2011, 01:07 PM

i don't think she would be worried about auto v's manuel, it's the $500.00 for the test...a special test WTF..

billy302 · 30-05-2011, 01:09 PM

The woman has lost her right Arm.
You have all raised valid questions.
People who are handicapped can drive an Automatic.
I think you will find she has been driving a manual car in Queensland without the Authorities knowing.
I lot the sight in my left eye after I had got my license.
Although I kept telling them, it took years for the Authorities to put it on my licence that I had impaired vision.

XB GS 351 Coupe · 30-05-2011, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Sort of like "Why endanger others by driving old technology motor vehicles that are not fitted with crumple zones, air bags, ABS or DSC?"
It would be so much safer to get rid of all the pre 2000 Falcons and drive hybrid camrys instead.......

You really are the master of coming up with stupid and pointless comparisons

A person with one arm should not be able to drive a manual car, it's just common sense, there are automatic cars, even with an auto I believe that the person must be able to pass a driving test to prove that they can drive a car safely.

We are all taught to keep two hands on our steering wheel etc etc.

See people with two arms can still keep one hand on the wheel while they change gears, scratch their nose, wipe sweat off their fore head, wipe their nose after sneezing etc etc, something a person with one arm can not do.

Not every person should be able to drive a car, holding a license should be a privilege earned, it should not be a right. I want to play Basketball in the NBL, but it's not going to happen no matter how much I want it, driving a car should be the same, not everyone is capable of driving and controlling a vehicle, and this is proven daily on our streets.

If she can not afford $500 for a driving test may be she can not afford to drive a car, how does she go servicing her vehicle paying for rego and insurance and ongoing running cost etc etc if she can not afford a one off driving test at $500

SEZ213 · 30-05-2011, 01:22 PM

My Victorian licence indicated I had to wear glasses, when I moved to Queensland and changed my licence over, this was 'missed' by Queensland Transport.

She's been driving with one arm for ten years...that's dedication, and no accidents...why should she be forced into a manual if she's clearly proven she's capable of doing it?

How many of you put your knee under the steering wheel to open a drink with both hands whilst driving? Same theory applies...just dressed differently...

And I would hazard a guess and suggest that as a result of the disability, she's more aware of hazards around her, and compensates accordingly...she's missing an arm, not both eyes...

Supercharged · 30-05-2011, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EasyD

"Ms Murray said she has proved she can drive a manual car with one arm. She drove across three states on her own to settle in Harvey, pregnant and towing a trailer............"

Hats off!

Just because she did doesn’t mean she should, any sort of an emergency situation where she needs to turn the steering wheel and drop down a gear quickly would have her struggling to maintain control.

PimpMyHubcap · 30-05-2011, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

Sort of like "Why endanger others by driving old technology motor vehicles that are not fitted with crumple zones, air bags, ABS or DSC?"
It would be so much safer to get rid of all the pre 2000 Falcons and drive hybrid camrys instead.......

You have a point there but maybe a rule like that for the masses wouldnt be relevant in this case where there is such an easy solution. Buy an automatic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

You really are the master of coming up with stupid and pointless comparisons

A person with one arm should not be able to drive a manual car, it's just common sense, there are automatic cars, even with an auto I believe that the person must be able to pass a driving test to prove that they can drive a car safely.

We are all taught to keep two hands on our steering wheel etc etc.

See people with two arms can still keep one hand on the wheel while they change gears, scratch their nose, wipe seat off their fore head, wipe their nose after sneezing etc etc, something a person with one arm can not do.

I think flappist has a point but this single case shows how things slip through the holes in the law and endangers others who are not aware that someone is driving a car with their knees at certain times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sezzy

My Victorian licence indicated I had to wear glasses, when I moved to Queensland and changed my licence over, this was 'missed' by Queensland Transport.

She's been driving with one arm for ten years...that's dedication, and no accidents...why should she be forced into a manual if she's clearly proven she's capable of doing it?

How many of you put your knee under the steering wheel to open a drink with both hands whilst driving? Same theory applies...just dressed differently...

And I would hazard a guess and suggest that as a result of the disability, she's more aware of hazards around her, and compensates accordingly...she's missing an arm, not both eyes...

So thats an excuse to make it more dangerous for me driving beside her?
One arm=automatic
If I passed you closely doing 150kph, I`m pretty sure you wouldnt be happy with my driving even though I would be dedicated and concentrating.

atec77 · 30-05-2011, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PimpMyHubcap

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/west...-1226064647632

This scares the crap out of me as she was tested and they thought it was ok for her to steer with her legs during gear changes?? WTF

I`m all for people with disabilities doing everyday things but when there are cars with automatic gearboxes then common sense should prevail.

Without proving her ability it's relegation to an auto , although I know of single arm drivers who have the manual prvilage it needs proving , and should't cost anymore really or is that a govco way of forcing her ?

flappist · 30-05-2011, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

You really are the master of coming up with stupid and pointless comparisons

A person with one arm should not be able to drive a manual car, it's just common sense, there are automatic cars, even with an auto I believe that the person must be able to pass a driving test to prove that they can drive a car safely.

We are all taught to keep two hands on our steering wheel etc etc.

See people with two arms can still keep one hand on the wheel while they change gears, scratch their nose, wipe sweat off their fore head, wipe their nose after sneezing etc etc, something a person with one arm can not do.

Not every person should be able to drive a car, holding a license should be a privilege earned, it should not be a right. I want to play Basketball in the NBL, but it's not going to happen no matter how much I want it, driving a car should be the same, not everyone is capable of driving and controlling a vehicle, and this is proven daily on our streets.

If she can not afford $500 for a driving test may be she can not afford to drive a car, how does she go servicing her vehicle paying for rego and insurance and ongoing running cost etc etc if she can not afford a one off driving test at $500

So you get upset when my comparison would affect you.....

I am not saying she has the right to drive, I am saying she has the right to do the test.

If she fails then she cannot drive a manual, if she passes then she will have demonstrated the same minimum skill as anyone else who passes the test.

It is ironic that on a forum that contains more than a few threads complaining about prejudice against and villification of car enthusiasts there is so much prejudice against others.

She has just as much right to sit for that test as the classic car owners here have of restoring written off or rusted cars to roadworthy.

In both cases if they pass they are allowed on the road.

Or should the greenie tree huggers be allowed to prevent any "high carbon footprint" vehicles being restored?

SEZ213 · 30-05-2011, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PimpMyHubcap

So thats an excuse to make it more dangerous for me driving beside her?
One arm=automatic
If I passed you closely doing 150kph, I`m pretty sure you wouldnt be happy with my driving even though I would be dedicated and concentrating.

Why? Why does one arm=automatic? And why does it automatically make it dangerous for you to be driving beside her?

Able bodied or not, there are bad drivers out there. You have no information that indicates she's a bad driver...except she's missing an arm...which is no proof at all...she could be a better driver than you...

She's been given a licence...why should she have to pay 500 bucks for a 'special test' to prove she's capable? Only to have to drive an automatic anyway...it's insane...

Who said anything about 150km? We're talking about a woman who has one arm - not someone with a lead foot...

XB GS 351 Coupe · 30-05-2011, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flappist

I am not saying she has the right to drive, I am saying she has the right to do the test.

If she fails then she cannot drive a manual, if she passes then she will have demonstrated the same minimum skill as anyone else who passes the test.

Of course she has the right to do the test, I do not have an issue with that, but it would be pointless as she will not be able to pass the test no matter what.

The instant when she lets go of the steering wheel to change gears she would fail her test as at this time she does not have adequate control over the vehicle, as one hand must remain on the steering wheel at all times. If I sat for a driving test and started steering with my knees I am sure I would fail, no matter how good I could steer with my knees.

So the test is failed prior to even starting.

That's equality for you

RedHotGT · 30-05-2011, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

A person with one arm should not be able to drive a manual car, it's just common sense, there are automatic cars, even with an auto I believe that the person must be able to pass a driving test to prove that they can drive a car safely.

So what you're saying is because she only has one arm - she shouldn't have the choice of what she drives?

If she passes the test - the same test that is given to those with 2 arms - and doesn't fail using the same criteria as everyone else - then how can anyone tell her she can't drive a manual?

I have a family member that is blind (one eye removed, other has between 3-5% vision) and that person has a valid drivers license, and they recently sat the test to get a boat license....

Do you think my family member should be driving a car, or a boat??
Whether or not you think they should or shouldn't - according to the law and the valid license they hold - its legal.

Is it logical for a one armed woman to be driving a manual car - probably not... But who's to say she doesn't drive safer than some people with 2 arms???

PimpMyHubcap · 30-05-2011, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sezzy

Why? Why does one arm=automatic? And why does it automatically make it dangerous for you to be driving beside her?

Able bodied or not, there are bad drivers out there. You have no information that indicates she's a bad driver...except she's missing an arm...which is no proof at all...she could be a better driver than you...

She's been given a licence...why should she have to pay 500 bucks for a 'special test' to prove she's capable? Only to have to drive an automatic anyway...it's insane...

Who said anything about 150km? We're talking about a woman who has one arm - not someone with a lead foot...

An EXAMPLE of dangerous driving is either driving at high speed (eg. 150klms next to someone) or driving with no hands on the steering wheel.

I dont see any grey areas here when you have to take your hand OFF the steering wheel to change a gear. Imagine the stop/start in your area Sezzy (looking into the sun in the afternoon on the Ippy motorway). You cant steer with your knees at any time. I`m sure a competent license tester will fail you.

flappist · 30-05-2011, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Of course she has the right to do the test, I do not have an issue with that, but it would be pointless as she will not be able to pass the test no matter what.

The instant when she lets go of the steering wheel to change gears she would fail her test as at this time she does not have adequate control over the vehicle, as one hand must remain on the steering wheel at all times. If I sat for a driving test and started steering with my knees I am sure I would fail, no matter how good I could steer with my knees.

So the test is failed prior to even starting.

That's equality for you

I am still waiting for someone to actually show some legislation stating that one hand MUST remain on the steering wheel at all times.

And while you are at it.....

How does this now auto only driver turn on the headlights or windscreen wipers or whatever?