Covid 19 -

[Citroënbender]

It’s OK Martinka, it will be a suppository.

I’m still unsettled by this inference that “a cure” (my summary of the way people are thinking) is just around the corner.

[marty351]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

It’s OK Martinka, it will be a suppository.

I’m still unsettled by this inference that “a cure” (my summary of the way people are thinking) is just around the corner.

That may be a solution for some, but a potato in the exhaust pipe seems a lot worse than a jab in the arm.

[Bossxr8]

News reports today saying the Vic Government asked the ADF to use surveillance drones to spy on people not following covid rules. But the ADF knocked back their request.

Dan must have been so disappointed his police state didn't get them.



HOW MILITARY AIRCRAFT COULD HAVE SPIED ON LOCKED-DOWN
Police would have been sent to illegal gatherings spotted by unmanned military spy planes in a plan rejected by the Defence Force, just days before Daniel Andrews raised concerns with colleagues about troops hitting the streets.

[PhilT2]

Imagine a situation where a person on the dole refuses to vaccinate and knocks back a job in an aged care centre that requires staff to vaccinate. You'll all be happy to keep paying tax so this person can stay on the dole and doesn't have to compromise his principles and get the shot (and the job)

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

Imagine a situation where a person on the dole refuses to vaccinate and knocks back a job in an aged care centre that requires staff to vaccinate. You'll all be happy to keep paying tax so this person can stay on the dole and doesn't have to compromise his principles and get the shot (and the job)

This person wouldn't be eligible for the dole if they refused the Covid vaccine under the no jab no pay rule.

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by Romulus

This person wouldn't be eligible for the dole if they refused the Covid vaccine under the no jab no pay rule.

There isn't a "no jab no pay" rule. I think someone misheard someone saying "no jab no play" which is a real rule that does exist. If the "no jab no pay was even suggested by anyone in gov could you show me where? Not saying it didn't happen just want to get the facts straight.

But back to the question, do you want to keep supporting the anti-vax welfare recipient?

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

There isn't a "no jab no pay" rule. I think someone misheard someone saying "no jab no play" which is a real rule that does exist. If the "no jab no pay was even suggested by anyone in gov could you show me where? Not saying it didn't happen just want to get the facts straight.

But back to the question, do you want to keep supporting the anti-vax welfare recipient?

Correct, there isnt a no jab, no pay rule, yet. Labor and Greens have already hinted they wouldn't support legislation if it was introduced, as well as PHONP. No, I wouldn't want to support an anti-vax welfare recipient, or anyone on welfare who can work but choses not to.

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

But back to the question, do you want to keep supporting the anti-vax welfare recipient?

Yes, someone being on benefits for a limited period of time that’s actually seeking a employment shouldn’t be forced to relinquish their personal rights leveraged on being able to feed themselves or their family.

I’m about as far from a supporter of long term welfare recipients as you’ll find but that’s not something that should be leveraged.

People got upset about rights when the government wanted to have the Welfare card that restricted where and what money could be spent on, what your suggesting is a massive reach from there.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

There isn't a "no jab no pay" rule. I think someone misheard someone saying "no jab no play" which is a real rule that does exist. If the "no jab no pay was even suggested by anyone in gov could you show me where? Not saying it didn't happen just want to get the facts straight.

But back to the question, do you want to keep supporting the anti-vax welfare recipient?

Listening to Dr Nick Coatsworth this morning on Skynews you better prepare yourself. He's wanting a minimum of 70% uptake of this vaccine and is looking at the current legislation including changing NJNP and other instruments under a carrot and STICK (emphasis added) approach.

[Polyal]

Gawd NJNP, I think 2020 will be known as the year of acronyms!

[Fed]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Gawd NJNP, I think 2020 will be known as the year of acronyms!

I do a quick google on them.
NJNP relates to pokeman & transvestites.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Gawd NJNP, I think 2020 will be known as the year of acronyms!

Off topic, but acronyms are when the initials still make a word, like PIN (personal identification number).

Anything else is an initialism.

[ford71V8]

Originally Posted by prydey

Off topic, but acronyms are when the initials still make a word, like PIN (personal identification number).

Anything else is an initialism.

Not quite, I think as long as you can pronounce it in a wordlike manner it counts.

[Franco Cozzo]

You can see it's starting to take its toll on people from a mental health perspective, there's low morale about from the non customer facing staff at work and they're struggling with the isolation.

I guess because they have limited interaction and then they can't do anything post work either so they've got virtually zero contact with others aside from work colleagues and their families.

I'm fine, no big deal but I talk to circa 100 different people a day from everywhere.

Keen on a pub feed when it all comes back, I think the last time I went to the pub/restaurant was in Jan or Feb.

[Citroënbender]

I’m be noticed that malingering unhappiness, too, and not even in Victoria.

Re the pub feed, it might have to be a while yet but BVT is still in my sights…

[Charliewool]

Is this proposed vaccine going to be available this year? Next year? The year after?
I think we’re a bloody long, long way out and maybe jumping the gun a little on whether or not it’s compulsory, the legalities and associated moral dilemmas it entails?
By the time it arrives (if?) We all could be “biters or walkers”?

[russellw]

220 new cases for Australia and 12 deaths sees the CMR rise to 1.876% although active cases drop to 8,297. NSW recorded 7 cases, WA recorded 4 and Queensland recorded 1 case with the balance in Victoria.

6 new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.334% and active cases rise to 96.

The UK had 812 new cases and 16 deaths yesterday for a CMR of 12.892% although we know they are now not counting their mortalities by the WHO guidelines.

Just on 44k new cases in the USA yesterday and 1,358 deaths sees CMR remain at 3.095% and active cases at 43.7% with the raw numbers still rising. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
The USA completes 73M, Russia 33M, India 31M, Germany 10M, Bahrain 1M and Argentina 1M tests;
Colombia passes 0.5M cases;
North America passes 0.25M deaths;
Asia records a new daily high with 96,476 cases;

Albania (158), South Korea (297), Libya (489), Lebanon (589), Moldova 626, Ukraine (1,967), Colombia (13,056) and India (69,196) recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

[HIPO]

No one worried about Morrison discussing vaxing with Gates earlier this year ???

[marty351]

https://youtu.be/ftm1hiXgYsA

Extreme...

[Franco Cozzo]

First days of New Zealand lockdown were unlawful, High Court finds

Wellington: The New Zealand government exceeded its powers telling residents to stay at home in the first nine days of the coronavirus lockdown, the High Court has found.

Public announcements Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and others made between March 26 and April 3 were justified, but went beyond the actual lockdown order made by Director-General of Health Ashley Bloomfield forbidding congregating, except with social distancing and shutting non-essential businesses.

https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania...19-p55nap.html

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

https://www.smh.com.au/world/oceania...19-p55nap.html

So what's the consequence of this? Kicking Ardern out of office would be a good start.

There's a flood of legal challenged going to start against Victoria and WA for their lockdowns.

[russellw]

Originally Posted by Romulus

So what's the consequence of this? Kicking Ardern out of office would be a good start.

There's a flood of legal challenged going to start against Victoria and WA for their lockdowns.

There won't be any consequences because they'll simply say they were acting on the advice they were provided.

Originally Posted by ford71V8

Not quite, I think as long as you can pronounce it in a wordlike manner it counts.

Correct.

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

You can see it's starting to take its toll on people from a mental health perspective, there's low morale about from the non customer facing staff at work and they're struggling with the isolation.

People need to HTFU. A few months of lockdown is not even beginning to aproach the six years of spending half your nights in an air-raid shelter and living with severe shortages that the WW2 generation had to live through. Not to mention that nearly half the British population lost a family member to the fighting and 30% of the country was under constant bombardment.

Originally Posted by zilo

one word for you ...Thalidomide.

Here's one back. Polio. How you can compare a 'supposed fix' for a bit of nausea with a life saving vaccination beggars belief. The amount of global scrutiny any vaccine that becomes generally available will get will make anything that has come before pale into insignificance.

The anit-vax morons are fond of trotting out Thalidomide and the other pharmaceuticals that have had negative side effects along with the tiny percentage of people who have adverse reactions to the vaccinations but the reality is that we would still be losing tens of thousands to polio, smallpox, diphtheria etc. without the compulsory programs of the 50's and 60's.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by russellw

People need to HTFU. A few months of lockdown is not even beginning to aproach the six years of spending half your nights in an air-raid shelter and living with severe shortages that the WW2 generation had to live through. Not to mention that nearly half the British population lost a family member to the fighting and 30% of the country was under constant bombardment.

That's an interesting 'You kids have it easy! Back in my day' flex from someone who didn't live through those times

Here's a perspective from 89 year old Nonna, she lived through Italy during their rise of fascism, the heyday of Nazi Germany, German occupation of Italy and the resulting invasion and fighting from both the UK/Americans when they came through as a young girl to early teens by the end of hostilities, the oldest of all her siblings which she was responsible for feeding and keeping herself and her younger brothers alive.

While the British were hiding in their bomb shelter Nonna was scouring the battlefield for dead horses to cut up or killing and eating people's pets that escaped to feed her family, or stealing what she could from farms and begging for food from British and American soldiers while caught up between four countries fighting a war in her backyard.

Yet she's absolutely against all the lockdown restrictions and is concerned about it's effects on our youth from the perspective of employment and inability to go out and enjoy themselves - she accepts her own mortality, that she's at the end of her life and it's not fair that she's being used an as excuse by a government for draconian measures, no one asked her about her thoughts.

So yes while I'm sure the people who lived through WWII faced tougher challenges, I'm interested in their perspectives on having their freedoms curtailed by their own government and what they think having lived through a war fought against authoritarian governments that killed an estimated 50M-70M people.

Does anyone else here have relatives who lived through that WWII period and are still alive to tell their stories?

[MercuryT]

Originally Posted by russellw

People need to HTFU. A few months of lockdown is not even beginning to aproach the six years of spending half your nights in an air-raid shelter and living with severe shortages that the WW2 generation had to live through. Not to mention that nearly half the British population lost a family member to the fighting and 30% of the country was under constant bombardment.

So because people went through shocking times during WW2 that people are now soft if they are struggling mentally with lockdown and isolation etc?

Especially as people have considerably different circumstances that can make the lockdown far harder than for others.

For mine that's a very unsympathetic opinion and strange comparison but you are entitled to it.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by russellw

Here's one back. Polio. How you can compare a 'supposed fix' for a bit of nausea with a life saving vaccination beggars belief. The amount of global scrutiny any vaccine that becomes generally available will get will make anything that has come before pale into insignificance.

.

My point is that Thalidomide had all the certifications of being completely safe....from all the research and due diligence that a profitable drug company offered.

That "little bit of nausea" had devastating consequences to it's victims.

You are advocating a medical experiment on 100% of the population.

Think about that..everyone gets it...if something is not right then all of us get the consequences of it not being "quite right".

If you can't see what is wrong with that then ...well.......what if the cure is worse than the disease....

It would add a new meaning to "we are all in this together"....

[98TLS]

Originally Posted by Romulus

So what's the consequence of this? Kicking Ardern out of office would be a good start.

There's a flood of legal challenged going to start against Victoria and WA for their lockdowns.

Simply the fact there was a court case for all the oppositions rantings in NZ there leader recently announced she "would have no tolerance for Covid in the community"

[Sprintey]

Good posts Russell, FTE, Marty.

My great uncle was Surgeon in Royal Army, came home one day to see his house had vanished in the blitz (bomb). Luckily family were not home at the time. The deprivation didn't stop with the war, severe rationing postwar, Dad had very few toys, they could hardly spare steel for die-cast cars, he remembers the shop shelves being bare. That doesn't stop a people. For me, I've had a pretty good upbringing and life, only the 90's recession when I was a young adult that presented any challenges but that wasn't anywhere near WW2 or the Australian Great Depression stories from mum's side, this situation is doable, 5 months isolation now for the family and we are OK. Keep calm and carry on.

Vic numbers under 200, those with no known trace 24. Geelong 109 now down from 180. This is moving in the right direction.

[russellw]

243 new cases for Australia and 13 deaths sees the CMR rise to 1.910% although active cases took a big drop to 5,919. NSW recorded 5 cases and Queensland recorded 1 case with the balance in Victoria.

5 new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.330% and active cases rise to 101.

The UK had 1,182 new cases and (supposedly) 6 deaths yesterday for a CMR of 12.847% although we know they are now not counting their mortalities by the WHO guidelines.

Just under 45k new cases in the USA yesterday and 1,260 deaths sees CMR drop to 3.093% and active cases at 43.2% with the raw numbers falling slightly. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
The UK completes 15M, India 32M and Sweden 1M tests;
Asia records a new daily high with 96,565 cases;

Lebanon (605), Ethiopia (1,778), Ukraine (2,134) and Argentina (8,225) recorded new daily highs; those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

[Bossxr8]

Typical extreme comparison that gets thrown on people who don't want to do exactly what the government tells them to do. Talk about brain washed.

And no i'm not anti-vax. Just want to know it's 100% safe and effective before i'd even consider it. And the proof will be in the pudding over time, not just in clinical trials that can be manipulated.

[xxx000]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Typical extreme comparison that gets thrown on people who don't want to do exactly what the government tells them to do. Talk about brain washed.

And no i'm not anti-vax. Just want to know it's 100% safe and effective before i'd even consider it. And the proof will be in the pudding over time, not just in clinical trials that can be manipulated.

it sounds from what you've posted above that you're very close to being an anti vaxxer
Claiming that trials can, and inferring will, be manipulated and inferring that you'll magically know when it's safe to 'consider' but will ignore medical experts advice until then.
The Internet and resultant conspiracy theories have a lot to answer for.
Do you and your family get the annual flu jab?