![]() |
|
Welcome to the Australian Ford Forums forum. You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and inserts advertising. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members, respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features without post based advertising banners. Registration is simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today! If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us. Please Note: All new registrations go through a manual approval queue to keep spammers out. This is checked twice each day so there will be a delay before your registration is activated. |
|
The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
View Poll Results: W427 vs Coyote | |||
GT will smash everything (inc F6) except GT-H of course |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
14 | 18.92% |
GT will beat GTS but GT-H will beat W427 & F6 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
19 | 25.68% |
GT will beat all except W427 but GT-H will be king |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
22 | 29.73% |
W427 will still be the king |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
19 | 25.68% |
Voters: 74. You may not vote on this poll |
![]() |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
![]() |
#1 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
|
Reading some of the current literature about the impending coyote I have been thinking back over the last 10 odd years of the "feud"
HSV make a vehicle CLUBSPORT, Ford make a similar vehicle T Series then suddenly HSV release a "hero" model GTS that is much dearer (50%) and quicker that sells is very limited numbers but gives them the 400m crown (which is all that is important in school yards and public bars) GTS rules until a few years later when CLUBSPORTs and GTs are getting as quick as a GTS and Ford release the F6 which much to the annoyance of Holden (and Ford V8) enthusiasts takes the crown. Suddenly (well after an aborted first attempt) HSV release the W427 for a mere 100% more grabs it back. The W427, the quickest and most powerful Australian produced sedan. For how much longer....... The W427, 640Nm and 375Kw, truly an inspiration but it does have one "tiny" flaw, it is naturally aspirated. The F6 has demonstrated very convincingly how a smaller engine developing a much lower maximum power but demonstrating a long flat torque curve can outperform much more powerful N/A vehicles. Just ask any LSx or BOSS owner what they thing of the F6, just don't do it near children.... In a short while the new S/C V8 powered FPVs will appear. The initial model is "only" 330kw and 600Nm but I suspect it will, like the F6, demonstrate this 600Nm for a significant part of the rev range. There are also rumors of a GT-HO with more power and torque. Now the question........ What do you think the odds are that the standard GT will be not only quicker than the current HSV range and F6 but in fact quicker than the W427? |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#2 | |||
Chasing a FORD project!
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: adelaide
Posts: 5,114
|
I think it will trounce the W427 all over the shop.
It's the area under the torque curve, and out and out power does not always mean a faster car. With ZF the coyote SC will be a winner.
__________________
Quote:
1996 BMW 740iL V8. TV, phone, leather, sunroof, satnav, all as standard. Now with 19" TSW Brooklands, 2 1/2" stainless steel exhaust, plus more coming soon. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#3 | ||
You dig, we stick!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,461
|
Without starting another hypothetical poll; "What tyres will the new GT/P/H/XYZ have?", I will say the following: The GT will match the W427 IF they improve on the current tyre quality and increased width.
Another poll would have been required if you want apples for apples; "If the F6 had bigger tyres, could it beat the W427 in a straight line?"
__________________
"....You don't put the car through engineering" - Rod Barrett. |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#4 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Newcastle, NSW
Posts: 3,926
|
I wish the W427 was also supercharged.
|
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#5 | |||
You dig, we stick!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,461
|
Quote:
__________________
"....You don't put the car through engineering" - Rod Barrett. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#6 | |||
Solution Was Boost 4?, 6 & 8
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 23,624
|
Quote:
W427 may be the king of price and numbers but that's where it ends it isn't a king of any track.. The new GT 1st hurdle will be getting over a FG XR6 turbo 12.59@110 mph, FG F6 12.36, I am not saying it wont, respect is earned at the track, not on a keyboard and hype.... Time will tell until then we can keep talking about will it, could it, should it or gunna. ![]()
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
AUTOTECH TUNED EDELEBROCK CHARGED 2017 GT Mustang Plenty of RWKW |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#7 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Newcastle, NSW
Posts: 3,926
|
Quote:
|
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#8 | |||
avenge me
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: South West Rocks NSW
Posts: 1,810
|
Quote:
__________________
FULL OF Autotech GOODNESS! |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#9 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,293
|
Agree with above post, with the right tyres the F6 would beat the W427....
|
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#10 | ||||
You dig, we stick!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,461
|
Quote:
Quote:
F6, though...
__________________
"....You don't put the car through engineering" - Rod Barrett. |
||||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#11 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,280
|
Quote:
![]() |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#12 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,021
|
Another important point, these cars will never be as fast as their donor vehicles, i.e Ford get s/c coyote from Mustang GT and Holden score whatever LS is in the corvette, BUT, the aussie cars will never be allowed to be faster than the hero vehicle it received the motor from. For Holden this is not as much of an issue due to the ZR1 Corvette being so quick, however Ford have a great opportunity to even better the Mustang with Coyote. The yanks would never admit it, but a s/c GT with ZF auto and brembo's will be a very worthy comparison to the Mustang GT. I may be a dreamer and have no idea what I am on about, but I can't wait to see if I am right.........
__________________
Quote:
|
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#13 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 11,293
|
Quote:
it would just be nice to see tyres eliminated as a variable/limiting factor. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#14 | |||
You dig, we stick!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,461
|
Quote:
HSV put better tyres on so no excuses for FPV. Not in my book.
__________________
"....You don't put the car through engineering" - Rod Barrett. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#15 | |||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
Posts: 21,551
|
Quote:
when you say 'track', does that include ones with corners? i'm no holden fan, but i'm not one eyed blue either. i believe the w427 owns all other local products on a track with corners. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#16 | ||
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,292
|
375kw N/A, when do you propose that Ford will ever reach such a number N/A?
They wont and the 427 will still be sitting on top of the pedestal. Comparing S/C to N/A is just silly to start with. |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#17 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,457
|
Quote:
FI or NA, a motor is an air pump primarily. One is just more effecient. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#18 | |||
You dig, we stick!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,461
|
Quote:
If you were to say the W427, as a package, was greatest around a circuit then yes, that is almost unarguable, but even still you would need to factor in price because, again, that's what you're paying for said package.
__________________
"....You don't put the car through engineering" - Rod Barrett. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#19 | |||
Solution Was Boost 4?, 6 & 8
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 23,624
|
Quote:
What if the turbo car had another pound of boost from factory, what if, like the tyre being to small on W427 its all what ifs.. I think it time he took the $165 xr8 air-box off the xr6 turbo, the few mm diameter on the snorkel intake seems to putting many cars to shame even those that cost more the 3 times price. We going to use general times or best times, I would expect the W427 to get big MPH look at the power its engine pushes out, but last I seen ET is and always will be king... Factory FG F6 12.36 is the king, no keyboard times, real world times with no what if's, we shall wait have to and see if there will be a new king.
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
AUTOTECH TUNED EDELEBROCK CHARGED 2017 GT Mustang Plenty of RWKW Last edited by SpoolMan; 10-07-2010 at 10:55 PM. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#20 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SA
Posts: 5,213
|
QUOTE:flappist-What do you think the odds are that the standard GT will be not only quicker than the current HSV range and F6 but in fact quicker than the W427?
In which fassion? 20 full tilt laps around Bathurst will see the W427 king easilly. Straight line 1/4 sees the F6 proven almost 2tenths faster. HO,well we dont know btu using your power figures above and Fords love with Dunlop Im still going to tip the F6 for bruisin and the W427 for cruisin tracks. All depends where you like your bragging rights really. |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#21 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
|
Ummm, I did mention the "400m crown".
Yes I am quite aware of all the politics of 400m vs circuit (those who know me know my history and I do currently drive a datto) but to the majority of "performance car people" the 400m time is the benchmark. My argument is that the F6 has demonstrated that in a large sedan a forced induction engine that demonstrates a torque curve that shows maximum from 1800 to almost 6000 rpm will deliver a better 0-400m time than a vehicle powered by a naturally aspirated engine of larger capacity and greater peak power. The coyote while being super rather than turbo charged should, I suspect, still demonstrate reasonably similar characteristics so therefore the FG2 GT theoretically should be an icon. One can only hope...... Last edited by flappist; 11-07-2010 at 01:26 AM. |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#22 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 601
|
I kinda think that its irrelevant. What difference does a quarter time make to somone buying a car? If that was a decision making aspect, wouldn't the buyer look at which has the most potential? After all, if your concern is 400m times, you would spend more to get the time lower at a later date.
I think a better question would be, Do you think the new Coyote will be a better performer with more aftermarket go fast options? Will it have more potential for modding? Will the $/Kw ratio be more favourable? Otherwise if you want quicker 400m times, mod an F6, or Holden 8. |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#23 | |||
GT-P With An Ego
![]() ![]() Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 20,652
|
Quote:
__________________
1998 DL LTD in Sparkling Burgundy, daily, mild 5.0L, high end stereo, slow'n'thirsty - 138.8rwkw. 2006 BF GT-P in Ego, 5.8L all alloy, Kenne Bell 2.8HLC, Nizpro Stage 2 ZF - 440rwkw. 2008 SY F6X in Silhouette, Ford Performance Club of ACT |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#24 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,078
|
What a beautiful country we live in, where we can get a practical sedan with super car power.
__________________
|
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#25 | |||
You dig, we stick!
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,461
|
Quote:
It's a real shame, even as it is, it would have been an instant legend had they figured out how to make it at a reasonable price. The problem was (from memory) they had to include the extra work involved in removing the LS3 and fitting the LS7. Plus they had to absorb the cost of that LS3 which the donor car came with. I believe that was the reason the price was higher than what HSV wished for. In the end that price brought about it's early demise. As an overall package, especially when considering a circuit, it will remain king if FPV think they can make a more powerful car without upgraded suspension, driveline and braking hardware.
__________________
"....You don't put the car through engineering" - Rod Barrett. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#26 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
|
Quote:
Purchasing a GT, F6 or Clubsport is an almost purely emotional not logical decision. How many GT owners bought their vehicle for any reason other than they had a V8 and a GT badge? The V8s outsell the T6s by a large number yet the F6 is both quicker from the factory as well as lends itself far more readily to performance modification. As far as the marketing not being based on acceleration.... Can you find even one FPV or HSV brochure or advert that shows lap times or braking distances or maximum turning G? As opposed to 0-100km/h or 0-400m...... |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#27 | ||
VFII SS UTE
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Central Coast
Posts: 6,353
|
will the GT-H get MRC, AP brakes, dry sump, wider tyres, tuffer driveline???
__________________
I don't often hear the sound of a screaming LSX. But when I do, So do the neighbours.. GO SOUTHS
|
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#28 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
|
Tony, for the sake of clarity and consistency of discussion here are we talking "best" times recorded by journo's as reported in Motor or Wheels as a point of reference?
There seems to be too much use of "optimised" times, i.e recorded at a strip where traction is perfect, special launch techniques used, tyre pressures set perfect, no filter, 1/4 tank of "special" fuel used etc etc etc..... getting bandied about to muddy the water.... The mags, like it or not, seem to be using STOCK cars in real world situations and the more modest times seem more realistic from a day to day perspective and make better use for comparison... Under those REAL conditions yes the W427 is king, but i suspect the new GT might be a very close match....
__________________
335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars.. ![]() Last edited by 4Vman; 11-07-2010 at 12:56 PM. |
||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#29 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
|
Quote:
AP brakes, doubtful....FPV have always used Brembo, the ones you get on BMW/AMG/McLaren/Audi/Aston Martin/Ferrari/Lamborghini/Porsche and of course Corvette, just to name a few. Brembo have actually owned AP since 2000. Dry sump, doubt it....unneeded extra expense that will be compensated for by positive manifold pressure. Wider tyres and tougher drive line.... quite probably and Ford have a bit of history making tough drive lines. I am fairly confident however that it will not get ugly bright red seats or owner fit bow-tie performance upgrade badge. Last edited by flappist; 11-07-2010 at 01:07 PM. |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |
![]() |
#30 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
|
Quote:
Until the torque curve of the coyote is revealed and the test is done it is all hypothetical but I suspect, like with the Typhoon, FPV are keeping their powder dry and will "walk the walk" rather than just "talk the talk". |
|||
![]() |
![]() ![]() |