E49 Chargers

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by G6T

my old mate who owned x gagen e49 said he was in doug chivers pits & watch them put old wheels & tires back on the hot nuts wouldn't go into cold rims,umless they did onother stop u might b talking about.

It was on there last pit stop of the day, the one I'm talking about that is.....

Originally Posted by G6T

does anybody else here no doug chivers ran 161 laps at bathurst in 72

.....also it would have been quite an achievement for Doug to run 161 laps, considering Brocky won it in only 130....

[XW-BAXR6T]

Always love watching this from time to time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnbmW5kz9i0


.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by G6T

owned gagens e49 a84 track pack special seat 4 leo gagen this car didn't race in 72 but was sold 2 private buyer years later.oops i think it was late 70s.

I've never heard of any drivers named gagen!

But I do remember watching a couple of brothers named Ian (Pete) and Leo Geoghegan

[Peter B - CV8]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

I've never heard of any drivers named gagen!

But I do remember watching a couple of brothers named Ian (Pete) and Leo Geoghegan

Perhaps their long lost Indian cousin ??

[G6T]

Originally Posted by DJR-351

It was on there last pit stop of the day, the one I'm talking about that is.....



.....also it would have been quite an achievement for Doug to run 161 laps, considering Brocky won it in only 130....

it was meant 2 say full race on same tyres & rims,i've heard the same story many a times over the years, its the first time i've heard your version of putting hot wheel nuts on the new cold rims & tires, r u saying u were there & seen different.

[G6T]

Originally Posted by Peter B - CV8

Perhaps their long lost Indian cousin ??

could b

[G6T]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

I've never heard of any drivers named gagen!

But I do remember watching a couple of brothers named Ian (Pete) and Leo Geoghegan

thanks 4 doing spell check 4 me

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by G6T

it was meant 2 say full race on same tyres & rims,i've heard the same story many a times over the years, its the first time i've heard your version of putting hot wheel nuts on the new cold rims & tires, r u saying u were there & seen different.

No I wasn't there, but I watched the race and have heard the same story you are telling over and over again, nobody was going to go full race distance on one set of tyres alone and come in third overall......think about it ffs.......

[mcnews]

I couldn't give two craps about what happened at Bathurst and can't believe anyone else can to be honest.

[DJR-351]

Originally Posted by mcnews

I couldn't give two craps about what happened at Bathurst and can't believe anyone else can to be honest.

Seeing as I have been a fan of the E49 since before you could stand ******g, why bother posting then......????? just FO......!!

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by G6T

thanks 4 doing spell check 4 me

No problem.

I noticed that your spellchecker has trouble with the words 'you' 'be' and 'are' as well as the numbers 'two' and 'four'.

Of course if that's SMS speak it's different, and frowned upon in AFF.

[CoupeKing]

Originally Posted by mcnews

I couldn't give two craps about what happened at Bathurst and can't believe anyone else can to be honest.

Yet you could probably name who won all the Australian Idols and Big Brothers?

[MercurySilver]

When I first got to oz when I was 12 a neighbor next to my Nan had an E49.
It was the first 'cool' car I was ever given a ride in.
He had dukes of hazard air horns under the hood and I remember thinking life doesn't get much better than this.
We went for a cruise to Victor harbor and the week after he took me to the drags.
As a small pommie kid it was a huge experience.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by CoupeKing

Yet you could probably name who won all the Australian Idols and Big Brothers?

No not any of them. I grew up watching Bathurst, but in the 80s. My birthday is more often than not on Bathurst weekend. I enjoy the race. But I am not stupid enough to connect a standard car's real world performance with Bathurst wins. I mean look at how many Holdens won Bathurst in the 70s, and none of them were remotely fast in standard trim, they were all so slow it wasn't funny in standard trim, 350 Monaros struggled to do any better than 16 second quarters, XU1s never got in top the 15s etc. and A9X etc. never got in to the 14s in standard form at any time in any car review. I have most of the car magazines from the era, and it is unbelievable how slow the Holdens were as standard, the first fast Holden was the VN Group A really.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by mcnews

No not any of them. I grew up watching Bathurst, but in the 80s. My birthday is more often than not on Bathurst weekend. I enjoy the race. But I am not stupid enough to connect a standard car's real world performance with Bathurst wins. I mean look at how many Holdens won Bathurst in the 70s, and none of them were remotely fast in standard trim, they were all so slow it wasn't funny in standard trim, 350 Monaros struggled to do any better than 16 second quarters, XU1s never got in top the 15s etc. and A9X etc. never got in to the 14s in standard form at any time in any car review. I have most of the car magazines from the era, and it is unbelievable how slow the Holdens were as standard, the first fast Holden was the VN Group A really.

Late version of the HG Monaro was in the 14's

A9X didn't have to be snarling in standard trim, as it was group C then, they just had to homologate the right parts.

[Blem]

Originally Posted by pottery beige

E 49 was a good nugget

Crapped on ALL coupes & even beat ALL sedans in it day...down the 1/4

Wish I had one in my garage E49

[Blem]

Dya reckon there will be write ups about the FGF6 in years to come ?
I believe so but won't change my love of the unit.
Mines a keeper.
5 yo & still smile every time I drive it.

[Crazy Dazz]

Of the 4 big Hardtops of the era, in looks they were a close 2nd to the HK/T/G Monaro.
I LOVE the Ford's of the era as total packages, but they always seemed a bit fat in the haunches ascetically.
(The HQ/J Monaro was just plain ugly.)

What I have always found ironic is how the "supercar scare" put a stop to the GTHO, and Chrysler equivalent, but it's replacement with homologation meant that dropping a V8 into any old POS enabled racing versions to be built. Gees, imagine if Chrysler hadn't had the good sense to kill the V8 Centura, or if Ford had dropped a V8 into a Cortina???

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Arnaldo

Beware,
LH & LX toranas speedometers were known to tell lies on above 120 km/h, but try to convince a torana owner that back in the day.................. "they actually seen this speed on their speedo"

Edit; before we go "off topic" with speedometer readings on toranas, have a read of this page taken from "Wheels Magazine" back in the day, A test to find Australias fastest car 1977.
http://planetsoarer.com/ford/fast/page7.jpg

Yes the same wheels magazine that always praised the general's products.

I agree.

No diffrent to any other holden or ford speedo.

My SLR5000 valve bounced at top end had a bit bigger cam 650 DP Holley etc, she went well but stoping hard over 180 KM/H could lock up the rear end i did not like that and she was floaty in the rear over that speed but the Holden p van was much better up to 220KM/H at 6200 RPM i think it was.

[eb2fairmont]

Enough said.

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Of the 4 big Hardtops of the era, in looks they were a close 2nd to the HK/T/G Monaro.
I LOVE the Ford's of the era as total packages, but they always seemed a bit fat in the haunches ascetically.
(The HQ/J Monaro was just plain ugly.)

What I have always found ironic is how the "supercar scare" put a stop to the GTHO, and Chrysler equivalent, but it's replacement with homologation meant that dropping a V8 into any old POS enabled racing versions to be built. Gees, imagine if Chrysler hadn't had the good sense to kill the V8 Centura, or if Ford had dropped a V8 into a Cortina???

Just gotta say .... IMHO

The Charger was the BEST looking car.
Being a shorter wheelbase than the sedan, the sculpted fin ... the others were just two door fourdoor cars.

[Mesa]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Late version of the HG Monaro was in the 14's

A9X didn't have to be snarling in standard trim, as it was group C then, they just had to homologate the right parts.

Hi MehtodX. I'm curious to know where you got the figure for a HG 350 Monaro to be in 14's? You might be right however every mag I have from the period (Wheels, Modern Motor, Competition Yearbook etc) shows the quickest of any 350 Munro was the HT 350 @ 15.6, the HQ 350 @ 15.8 and the HG 350 @ 16. Non of the number of Monaro specific books I have collected over the years (including those using official GM Holden performance figures) quote anything faster than a 15.8 for the HG GTS 350. And none mention the HG GTS 350 being nothing more than a stop gap upgrade until the HQ GTS 350. The performance Holden's by this stage were the Torana XU-1's, there was no need to upgrade the performance of the HG GTS 350. There's absolutely no mention of any of the last HG 350 gaining any performance upgrades to propel them into the 14's in any book (and they would've needed a few). So unless your counting one-off Bagshaw specials of which there are no performance figures, I'm curious to know.
Back on the R/T's. I'd prefer the R/T E38 with the A84 Track Pack option in Magenta. Even if it is hampered by the 3 speed box.

[Blue Roo]

Originally Posted by BluFGXR6

Hi MehtodX. I'm curious to know where you got the figure for a HG 350 Monaro to be in 14's? You might be right however every mag I have from the period (Wheels, Modern Motor, Competition Yearbook etc) shows the quickest of any 350 Munro was the HT 350 @ 15.6, the HQ 350 @ 15.8 and the HG 350 @ 16. Non of the number of Monaro specific books I have collected over the years (including those using official GM Holden performance figures) quote anything faster than a 15.8 for the HG GTS 350. And none mention the HG GTS 350 being nothing more than a stop gap upgrade until the HQ GTS 350. The performance Holden's by this stage were the Torana XU-1's, there was no need to upgrade the performance of the HG GTS 350. There's absolutely no mention of any of the last HG 350 gaining any performance upgrades to propel them into the 14's in any book (and they would've needed a few). So unless your counting one-off Bagshaw specials of which there are no performance figures, I'm curious to know.
Back on the R/T's. I'd prefer the R/T E38 with the A84 Track Pack option in Magenta. Even if it is hampered by the 3 speed box.

I think that MethodX is speaking throw his backside again.

[Charliewool]

Razorblade rubber would be a huge factor on the 1/4 times..
OT totally but.. If you had the 350 monro, E49, and the HO all on MT street radials.. Who wins & what times??

[MethodX]

Ok Blue Poo and blueFgxr6.
An explanation.

Gm were famous for hobbling their press cars at the time as is well known.
Also GM didn't pomote it as it was so late in the HG run, the HQ was coming, and the Torana was the race car by then.
The late series HG 350 used a different engine sourced from a different engine plant Mckinnon industries in Canada.

Although it wasn't promoted this engine had a stronger block. better flowing inlet manifold and better fuelie type heads.
Stronger tailshaft with bigger font yoke and larger universal joints.
AMC did a test on one of these late series HG and found it did a 14.78 @ 95, not bad at all.

Ironically Harry Firth had proposed a HG Bathurst special, just a pity it wasn't made.
With the 360 hp Lt1 motor, Muncie M21 close ratio box.... along with other things.

Anyway back to Vals.... No VH pacers about?

[XBROO]

Here something you might enjoy, I also loved the chargers in their day. One thing is for sure you don't see many around these days.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4bwLwZ6zVQ

[castellan]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Ok Blue Poo and blueFgxr6.
An explanation.

Gm were famous for hobbling their press cars at the time as is well known.
Also GM didn't pomote it as it was so late in the HG run, the HQ was coming, and the Torana was the race car by then.
The late series HG 350 used a different engine sourced from a different engine plant Mckinnon industries in Canada.

Although it wasn't promoted this engine had a stronger block. better flowing inlet manifold and better fuelie type heads.
Stronger tailshaft with bigger font yoke and larger universal joints.
AMC did a test on one of these late series HG and found it did a 14.78 @ 95, not bad at all.

Ironically Harry Firth had proposed a HG Bathurst special, just a pity it wasn't made.
With the 360 hp Lt1 motor, Muncie M21 close ratio box.... along with other things.

Anyway back to Vals.... No VH pacers about?

Yes that's true but i think the some of the test drivers were hopeless and the state of tune of the cars were nothing but crappy to be honest some times back in them days, it really ****ed me off that they would know this and publish the figures knowing full well that it was a bad example.

1/4 mile times don't tell much of a story sadly but that was just a backward dopey Australia mags we had to put up with. just half baked stories not full fair dinkum test at all worth jack.
The idiots would rev a big V8 like a 350 out to far in 1st and 2ed the stupid morons and just fools. the AMC test may of had a driver who understands.

A lot of cars can be made to perform and handle much better when one knows what to do with them to get the best out of them for bugger all dollars and these fools don't have a clue and don't say in there test how to go about it, like a different wheel alignment spec can make a hell of a difference making a bad car better or great, same for the engine a few pointers costing bugger all can make a big difference to one car. or if the brakes are weak tell people how to fix the problem.

The Chargers handled badly but could be made much better if you knew what to do to them. having said that the Chargers handle much better than the sedan and wagons that's for sure.

[Grippy]

Under bonnet footage of a Group Nc Charger at Sandown with the triple webers hard at work. Just love that sound.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmLOB6TeiVA

[Mesa]

Originally Posted by MethodX

Ok Blue Poo and blueFgxr6.
An explanation.

Gm were famous for hobbling their press cars at the time as is well known.
Also GM didn't pomote it as it was so late in the HG run, the HQ was coming, and the Torana was the race car by then.
The late series HG 350 used a different engine sourced from a different engine plant Mckinnon industries in Canada.

Although it wasn't promoted this engine had a stronger block. better flowing inlet manifold and better fuelie type heads.
Stronger tailshaft with bigger font yoke and larger universal joints.
AMC did a test on one of these late series HG and found it did a 14.78 @ 95, not bad at all.

Ironically Harry Firth had proposed a HG Bathurst special, just a pity it wasn't made.
With the 360 hp Lt1 motor, Muncie M21 close ratio box.... along with other things.

Anyway back to Vals.... No VH pacers about?

MethodX.
I read the AMCM (issue 52) on the HG 350 GTS. As much as I love my Fords (and Chrysler's) I admit I'm a big fan of 60's and 70's Monaro's. I even own a 74 GTS. The article itself is quite impressive and something I wasn't aware of even after collecting every book on the Monaro available.
However a sceptic could argue that a car being tested 42+ years after the fact, and after having the benefit of dyno tuning, that the results will vary even if it was claimed to be tuned in period correct factory spec. It's also claimed it's a genuine low mileage, non molested example. A lot can happen over 40 years that can forgotten or conveniently forgotten. A sceptic may also argue a XW GTHO PH II or Charger E 49 given the benefit of the same circumstances, may also record more advantageous and favorable 1/4 mile times than originally published at the time. Using evidence that several drag racers also recorded similar times too can be taken with a grain of salt. How many drag racers are you aware of that continually ran stock, factory tuned, non molested examples? Zero, that's how many.
Holden famous hobbling cars? I often read that on various manufacturer specific internet forums and blogs. And we all know what we read on the internet is true..........particularity 40 years after the fact!!! Holden must've really had a weapon on their hands with the HX GTS Monaro. It was supplied to Wheels grossly out of tune and no usable shocks left. It's often claimed Ford constantly and grossly under estimate their figure's too. Myth's. Who do you believe?
I've bought every issue of AMCM since issue one and find a lot of what they print often differ's from the accounts of people who were actually there or involved at the time. In fact, the only reason I buy it these days is for collection continuity. So is it a true story?? Well it's true, it is a story....

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by BluFGXR6

MethodX.
I read the AMCM (issue 52) on the HG 350 GTS. As much as I love my Fords (and Chrysler's) I admit I'm a big fan of 60's and 70's Monaro's. I even own a 74 GTS. The article itself is quite impressive and something I wasn't aware of even after collecting every book on the Monaro available.
However a sceptic could argue that a car being tested 42+ years after the fact, and after having the benefit of dyno tuning, that the results will vary even if it was claimed to be tuned in period correct factory spec. It's also claimed it's a genuine low mileage, non molested example. A lot can happen over 40 years that can forgotten or conveniently forgotten. A sceptic may also argue a XW GTHO PH II or Charger E 49 given the benefit of the same circumstances, may also record more advantageous and favorable 1/4 mile times than originally published at the time. Using evidence that several drag racers also recorded similar times too can be taken with a grain of salt. How many drag racers are you aware of that continually ran stock, factory tuned, non molested examples? Zero, that's how many.
Holden famous hobbling cars? I often read that on various manufacturer specific internet forums and blogs. And we all know what we read on the internet is true..........particularity 40 years after the fact!!! Holden must've really had a weapon on their hands with the HX GTS Monaro. It was supplied to Wheels grossly out of tune and no usable shocks left. It's often claimed Ford constantly and grossly under estimate their figure's too. Myth's. Who do you believe?
I've bought every issue of AMCM since issue one and find a lot of what they print often differ's from the accounts of people who were actually there or involved at the time. In fact, the only reason I buy it these days is for collection continuity. So is it a true story?? Well it's true, it is a story....

They all hobbled their cars, for fear of a supercar scare happening (happened anyway), and not to run foul of the insurance companies.

Happened in America too.