Pacific Brands sackings

[Pinch]

Most of us have heard the story about the Pacific Brands sackings.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/pacif...0227-8jih.html

It was bad enough if the sackings were the result of the 'Global Financial Crisis', but alas they are just appear largely the result of individual corporate executive greed. This is pure old school exploitation of the workers to benefit wealthy board members. If there is money to pay 300% executive salary increases, there is money to pay shop floor workers who make the company.

All this to the demise of their shareholders too.

To also restrict the employee's ability to leave with the redundancy package if they find another job in the meantime (now their jobs have been declared 'excess') is an act of sheer bastardry. Such a practice is uncommon in contemporary, socially responsible corporate citizens. Some employees have decades of service, if they simply leave to get another job, all their service resets to nought. If they are then made 'genuinely' redundant from a new job due to the GFC, then on a last on-first off basis they will lose everything.

Some here may know my background. I am an Industrial Relations adviser for a major employer, and on the board of another. I am also an ex white collar union organiser, and have been a union delegate for a lot of my working life. I have been on both sides of the fence and appreciate the conflicting arguments.

But this action gives all employers a bad name. There are other live threads explaining the difficulty and apparent lack of understanding by wage or salaried staff of the difficulties in being a buisness owner. However these largely valid messages get overriden by headlining acts of cavalier executive greed such as this. The bourgeoisie (of the negative connotation) aren't exactly a figment of imagination or even history it seems, and wage staff remember these instances. Acts like this by Pacific Brands perpetuate the class stuggle and the conflict between labour and capital. The Howard government years, for all its faults, did result in a weakening of at least the perception of this class stuggle. For various macroeconomic reasons, particularly the housing bubble, most people felt pretty well off. It only takes some corporate bastardry amongst a genuine economic downturn to start to reignite a perpetual conflict that makes Holden v Ford look like 'best friends forever'.

The protest however should be directed at the Pacific Brans executive, rather than the company as a whole. Boycotting products will largely result in more hurt for remaining wage employees and small time shareholders. Maybe the executive will get theirs by an ASX investigation. In any case Karma will find them in the end. Maybe we can take heart in the prosection of other recent corporate bastardry like Mr Rodney Adler.

Mods: I know this may fit within the periphery of topic of some other live threads, so move if you must - But I did feel this warranted its own thread.

[tud184]

It happens everywhere so why is it such a big deal if you dont like working for the man and making them money start your own bussiness like they did and see how hard it can be its not all that easy and if you make a big enough company to warrent been able to be paid a stupid enough amount of money why not?
As if anybody wouldnt take the money with all the sacrafices they had to make building it.

[OLDFORDNUT]

not bad heh, the female executive trippled her wage from $690,000 to 1.8 million and had only been ther a few years,while one worker who started 40 years ago was entitlled to $200,000 payout, its enough to make you sick

[balthazarr]

The answer is simple - nothing to do with the financial crisis, why pay an Aussie worker $20+/hour (or whatever), when you can pay a Chinese or Indian sweatshop worker $0.10/day?

Even when you consider the shipping overhead, it's miles cheaper...

Not only are Aussie workers more expensive per hour, the OH&S standards require regular breaks, meal breaks, proper working conditions (air con etc.), so the costs add up and up.

This is the problem with 'globalisation' - how can aussie manufacturing compete without some other factor (such as tarrifs) to even out the playing field? Someone posted a link to a Youtube video showing Asian workers at a car factory sitting inside a press - the workers get paid a lot less and they have no safety conditions (safety costs money). We just cannot compete with that.

I like the idea of a protest... the problem being, where would you take your business?

The number of businesses that remain local is shrinking all the time, and even those that do have a local plant probably outsource a lot of their production.

As far as CEO salaries go - I find it personally abhorrent, particularly in cases such as this one, where the lowest paid workers suffer (ie. the people that actually DO the work) whilst the CEOs and Board feed at the trough.

Even worse are the golden handshakes. I have no problem paying bonuses to the Board if their management results in strong profits. But there are so many examples of outgoing CEOs getting paid obscene amounts of money, while the company sinks - too many to list.

Something needs to change. The current crisis merely underscores that.

[Pinch]

Originally Posted by tud184

It happens everywhere so why is it such a big deal if you dont like working for the man and making them money start your own bussiness like they did and see how hard it can be its not all that easy and if you make a big enough company to warrent been able to be paid a stupid enough amount of money why not?
As if anybody wouldnt take the money with all the sacrafices they had to make building it.

I don't think that is the point though. Not that many begrudge executives from being rewarded handsomely for hard work. Its the way things work in a capitalist society. Look at Lindsay Fox and Richard Branson. I don't begrudge for a second all their toys becuase they took the risks, and were rewarded. Lindsay is not sacking 1800 people at the same time he is tripling his salary though. If times are tough you keep your salary at or around the same level. Anyone can sack people to increase the bottom line. Schoolkids can make money that way. It is hardly entreprenarial and does not build a company - so why is it rewarded? All it is doing is taking away incomes from hard workers - and redistributing it to executives that have done a half a.... job.

The real issue is taking away the livilihoods of thousands, while at the same time increasing your annual salary from the sort of figures most people spend 30 years paying back half of to buy a house, to a salary even three times that.

I have not worked on the shop floor for some time, I have educated myself while living on two minute noodles, I have done some hard yards and am doing reasonably well for myself. This does not mean that I have ever trod on other people do do so, nor will I ever. Being successful and being 'fair' are not mutually exclusive concepts for most successful people. It just shows that those who can only 'make it' at the expense of others are not the real deal. Or worse, criminals.

Maybe I don't have the 'killer streak' that would see me sack staff and make the remainder work harder just to line my pockets and houses with stuff I don't really need. But I sleep soundly.

[4Vman]

I wonder how many people who complain about buisness going off shore spent rudd's handout on imported products.....

[Falcon Coupe]

What really annoys me is under performing CEO's getting huge payouts, bonus's should be performance based.

Pacific Brands CEO payments stink. Sol Trujillo walking away from Telstra a year early with near on 30 million in his pocket while the share price dropped 25% absolutely reeks.

[Buddy 1]

Originally Posted by tud184

It happens everywhere so why is it such a big deal if you dont like working for the man and making them money start your own bussiness like they did and see how hard it can be its not all that easy and if you make a big enough company to warrent been able to be paid a stupid enough amount of money why not?
As if anybody wouldnt take the money with all the sacrafices they had to make building it.

Most of the Comments so far in this Thread do see the point of the Thread & supply the Correct Answers, however YOU & 1 other thus far DO NOT!

Everybody takes risks & makes Sacrifices in Life & in whatever they do for Income to pay the Bills however we often see People in the Higher levels of a Company being Payed way too much no matter how good they claim they are.

And the Funny thing is often these self praising Bigshots are at the Helm of a Business when it makes record losses but still they claim to be Fantastic at what they do & Demand Huge Money for the Skills they have NOT shown!

After all if they were as good as they thought they were then we would see Profits & a Booming Business, NOT a Business in Huge debt about to go under.

I am sure you could find many people on low wages who could do a Better Job as an Exec than the Arrogant Pigs who think they are just that good (when they are NOT).

In any case even if they are good & have the results to prove it they are still not worth the Huge Wages we often see them Payed.

NOBODY IS!

The Company Mentioned in this Thread is valued at something like 100 Million & has debts of something like 800 Million (correct me if I am wrong) so good Job to all its Execs.

One day we will see an end to this Rubbish of Huge & often unreal Wages payed to anybody, be it a CEO of a large Company or a Silly little Pop Singer who has no brain to speak of & thinks that she Deserves all the Millions she gets even if she is a often Drunk, Drugged Bimbo!

This also applies to Sports players, Actors or anybody who again is payed way too much compared to the so called average worker.

Saw the QE2 sail in to Sydney & what a sight it is to behold however who can afford a decent room on her?

Oh Pop singers or Movie Actors or maybe even Sports Players.

And also of course overpayed Execs of Failing Companies!

One day my Friends we will all wake up to Ourselves & this inequality will be no more!

[SM1DY]

Pacific Brands Motto: Don't let greed get in the way of a s***load of money.

[mowog]

The Textile industry in this country is alive and well in backyard slave labor shops. And the sacking of Australian workers has been going on for years now and for some reason its suddenly news worthy.

My wife was one of these textile workers but lucky for her she had extra talents and runs a very busy dressmaking business.

Next time you pick up that brand label item it has a high chance of being made by some kid who has to work in the family slave shop after school.

[XWGT]

Originally Posted by OLDFORDNUT

not bad heh, the female executive trippled her wage from $690,000 to 1.8 million and had only been ther a few years,

Ok sorry to ruin a good story with some facts however the pay increase was to reflect the promotion from GM (4 years as GM I beleive) to CEO, and that salary awarded was less than half of the CEO she replaced.

So yes while the whole mess is simply bad alround, can we at least inject what little facts are known into the argument.

[cheek]

I just cant believe bonds blue singlets are going to be made in china!!!

[XWGT]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Sol Trujillo walking away from Telstra a year early with near on 30 million in his pocket while the share price dropped 25% absolutely reeks.

Ok sorry to inject some facts once more but the $20 mill mark being bandied around by the media is once again fanciful thinking.

The real figure is 3 million. They are assuming he will be paid his 5th year of 13 mill + as well, which I think is up to the board of directors.

So while its technically possible I dont beleive that decision has been made and it stands at 3 mill as of today.

[ltd_on20s]

Originally Posted by XWGT

Ok sorry to inject some facts once more but the $20 mill mark being bandied around by the media is once again fanciful thinking.

The real figure is 3 million. They are assuming he will be paid his 5th year of 13 mill + as well, which I think is up to the board of directors.

So while its technically possible I dont beleive that decision has been made and it stands at 3 mill as of today.

thought id put in that some of sol's renumeration is to be voted on by the shareholders, and they voted down one of his outlandish payments, which then the board overturned and gave to Sol'

the question posed isnt that if someone works hard they should be entitled to the cash

the question is can that same job be done by someone on half of what sol earned? id say yes.

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by OLDFORDNUT

not bad heh, the female executive trippled her wage from $690,000 to 1.8 million and had only been ther a few years,while one worker who started 40 years ago was entitlled to $200,000 payout, its enough to make you sick

Only half the story there. She was promoted to the top position, that is why she got the pay rise, but she was only paid half the amount as her predecessor.

(Sorry XWGT beat me to it)

[tud184]

Originally Posted by Buddy 1

Most of the Comments so far in this Thread do see the point of the Thread & supply the Correct Answers, however YOU & 1 other thus far DO NOT!

Everybody takes risks & makes Sacrifices in Life & in whatever they do for Income to pay the Bills however we often see People in the Higher levels of a Company being Payed way too much no matter how good they claim they are.

And the Funny thing is often these self praising Bigshots are at the Helm of a Business when it makes record losses but still they claim to be Fantastic at what they do & Demand Huge Money for the Skills they have NOT shown!

After all if they were as good as they thought they were then we would see Profits & a Booming Business, NOT a Business in Huge debt about to go under.

I am sure you could find many people on low wages who could do a Better Job as an Exec than the Arrogant Pigs who think they are just that good (when they are NOT).

In any case even if they are good & have the results to prove it they are still not worth the Huge Wages we often see them Payed.

NOBODY IS!

The Company Mentioned in this Thread is valued at something like 100 Million & has debts of something like 800 Million (correct me if I am wrong) so good Job to all its Execs.

One day we will see an end to this Rubbish of Huge & often unreal Wages payed to anybody, be it a CEO of a large Company or a Silly little Pop Singer who has no brain to speak of & thinks that she Deserves all the Millions she gets even if she is a often Drunk, Drugged Bimbo!

This also applies to Sports players, Actors or anybody who again is payed way too much compared to the so called average worker.

Saw the QE2 sail in to Sydney & what a sight it is to behold however who can afford a decent room on her?

Oh Pop singers or Movie Actors or maybe even Sports Players.

And also of course overpayed Execs of Failing Companies!

One day my Friends we will all wake up to Ourselves & this inequality will be no more!

So have you ever changed jobs for bigger money and when you got there thought to yourself well old mate over works his **** of and gets less money then me so do you go over and say mate im on alot more money then you so ill give you some off mine?
How many of these people give tradesmans jobs they have drivers,gardeners,lawn mower people that they pay and then you have the builders doing there renovations and landscapes so maybe they do earn alot of money but how much goes to other people that work for them?

[balthazarr]

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

...
the question is can that same job be done by someone on half of what sol earned? id say yes.

That's not even the question...

The real question is - do CEOs and other members of a company's Board deserve such massive salaries and golden handshakes when the company they are responsible for is floundering - either debt ridden, poor share/dividend performance, or in some extreme cases, bankrupt? And what can be done to stop these situations from occurring?

For an extreme example - look at Alan Fishman and Washington Mutual. He was paid $19 million after just 17 days as CEO, after which WM went into receivership. :

[balthazarr]

Originally Posted by XWGT

Ok sorry to ruin a good story with some facts however the pay increase was to reflect the promotion from GM (4 years as GM I beleive) to CEO, and that salary awarded was less than half of the CEO she replaced.

So yes while the whole mess is simply bad alround, can we at least inject what little facts are known into the argument.

Well, why not reveal all the facts (from http://www.news.com.au/business/stor...20-462,00.html):
"... Earlier, The Daily Telegraph revealed that the total remuneration for 13 directors at Pacific Brands more than doubled in 2008, from just over $7 million to $15.5 million.

The bill, which was approved last June, includes a rise in CEO Sue Morphet's package from $685,775 to $1,860,649, including a staggering seven-fold increase in her "incentive payments" - blood money for slashing nearly 1850 jobs.

Her bonus was approved despite her overseeing a 45 per cent fall in the share price in the six months leading up to the pay deals. ..."

The reason she's getting half of what her predecessor got is probably due to her inexperience, having recently been promoted, rather than any sense of holding-back when the share price is tumbling and thousands of workers are losing their jobs. The rest of the Board obviously saw fit to share the "saving" amongst themselves and then some.

So while her particular pay rise may have been due to a promotion, it doesn't explain the Board receiving more than double, especially when the share price has fallen by almost half and 1,850 workers have lost their jobs.

[Buddy 1]

Originally Posted by tud184

So have you ever changed jobs for bigger money and when you got there thought to yourself well old mate over works his **** of and gets less money then me so do you go over and say mate im on alot more money then you so ill give you some off mine?
How many of these people give tradesmans jobs they have drivers,gardeners,lawn mower people that they pay and then you have the builders doing there renovations and landscapes so maybe they do earn alot of money but how much goes to other people that work for them?

Actually No

I have worked for a few Companies in my time & held various Positions within the Organisations however it has always been me who worked Harder than many others & who also worked Smarter however was often not payed as much for various reasons, they may have been there longer or were a rung or so up the ladder or were butt crawlers to the owners of the Business or in fact was at time a Family owned Business & of course family members were payed more.

I have also one time worked in sales for a major Electrical store & found that we were all on equal Salary even though a few of us topped the sales mostly.

Sure we did get commision however that still did not make up for the fact we also had 16 year old girls getting payed the same basic wage & selling hardly anything.

But this has nothing to do with the main argument in this thread & that is Many People are payed way more than they are worth & way more than anyone should get.

It does not matter if they were Promoted or not!

As for the Rich paying the Poorer people to do the things that they do not wish to, they could still do that on $500000.00 a year as opposed to 1.8 Million could they not?

I am not saying we should not pay CEO's & the like more than the bottom of the run worker however the gap should not be as Huge as it is.

And as for this pathetic Woman at this Company, she should be ashamed of herself.

Though I bet she is Laughing saying Pfft who cares as I am the Most Important Person to Myself & I Deserve every Cent!

Talk about Pathetic!

[GK]

The amount of money being paid by corporates to themselves (as they often sit on each other's pay advisory boards) is nothing but obsene!

All the talk about rewarded for performance is rubbish IMO. They already get a massive salary, they should be more than content with that.

Greed does horrible things to people.

GK

[uranium_death]

As sad as it is, and as big a pack of jerks the top dogs may be, this is merely sensible business.

As stated, we have so many bloody taxes here, as well as Workcover/Worksafe, Super, Maternity leave etc. it makes no sense to keep manufacturing here, when overseas it costs bugger all.

Hopefully that means cheaper products here, although I doubt that...actually, I'm damn sure of it.

It's a sad world we live in, ever becoming dog-eat-dog.

[OLDFORDNUT]

Originally Posted by XWGT

Ok sorry to ruin a good story with some facts however the pay increase was to reflect the promotion from GM (4 years as GM I beleive) to CEO, and that salary awarded was less than half of the CEO she replaced.

So yes while the whole mess is simply bad alround, can we at least inject what little facts are known into the argument.

OH OK so several years.
not a few years,
you might think she deserves it, but when you sack 1750 employees to get it and you think thats fine, well good on you. But i think its a disgrace

[gtfpv]

disgusting . i understand that we have many taxes that the wealthy govt takings , take with pure expectation. however , thats our tax system . it is hard , but it's our way of life.
unfortunately now . we have CEO's and corperate directors , taking the pharking lot of everyone with no concern or penalty. we seem to have entered a world where many directors in a company get millions per year , sending whole companies bankrupt, and it seems to be a given that this is ok . this has put the world in recession . the laws that allow this are crazy, and worthy of capital punishment, as the minority capitalists are taking everyone elses money.

[buickman]

Originally Posted by Buddy 1

As for the Rich paying

Though I bet she is Laughing saying Pfft who cares as I am the Most Important Person to Myself & I Deserve every Cent!
Talk about Pathetic!

Sue Morphet would not pay for too many things out of her own pockets in life only assets like houses as she would have a fairly large expenditure on her credit card allowance. Plus other allowances.

Most people in those positions have no moral standards as she would not be where she is in life if she cared about others instead of power and $’s

[Bent8]

Originally Posted by Falcon Coupe

Sol Trujillo walking away from Telstra a year early with near on 30 million in his pocket while the share price dropped 25% absolutely reeks.

Actually, he's getting a $3M remuneration.

Still a pretty nice going away present in anyone's language.

The way the system is set up means the scum always rise to the top..but in the end the whole thing comes crashing down and then no one is better off.

As mentioned already, greed is very BAD !!

[ea90gl]

talks are in place to try and overturn the decision to sack workers and remain here in Australia hopefully all goes well

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by ea90gl

talks are in place to try and overturn the decision to sack workers and remain here in Australia hopefully all goes well

Who owns pacific brands? Ultimately they're the ones in control...

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Who owns pacific brands? Ultimately they're the ones in control...

I think Pacific Brands is a Legal entity which manages and markets the products we all know as King Gee , Yakka , Sleepmaker , Slazenger etc etc ....

As such I would imagine that this legal entity would be comprised of a Board of directors that would answer to its shareholders. I don't think it is owned by any other conglomerate........

The saddest IRONY is the amount of millions of $AUD in Govt subsidies ( read tax payers hard earnt ) this entity has received from the AU Government over the years to keep manufacturing ops in AU............double whammy.......

I don't think it has anything to do with the economic meltdown.........more realistically it is just a sign of the times.......

You'll also find that its more than just manufacturing that is going to ASIA........our Hi Tech Mass Spectrometry division at work recently announced it was "moving" its R & D from Canada to Singapore.........and that there may be a new Hi Tech manufacturing company set up in Taiwan....to replace one in the USA !!!!!!!

I'm insisting my daughter learns simplified Chinese at High School now........French and German are so passe.........

[FGII-XR6]

it's time to reintroduce tarrifs to good with slave labour conditions to level the playing field

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by ESP

I think Pacific Brands is a Legal entity which manages and markets the products we all know as King Gee , Yakka , Sleepmaker , Slazenger etc etc ....

As such I would imagine that this legal entity would be comprised of a Board of directors that would answer to its shareholders. I don't think it is owned by any other conglomerate........

The saddest IRONY is the amount of millions of $AUD in Govt subsidies ( read tax payers hard earnt ) this entity has received from the AU Government over the years to keep manufacturing ops in AU............double whammy.......

I don't think it has anything to do with the economic meltdown.........more realistically it is just a sign of the times.......

You'll also find that its more than just manufacturing that is going to ASIA........our Hi Tech Mass Spectrometry division at work recently announced it was "moving" its R & D from Canada to Singapore.........and that there may be a new Hi Tech manufacturing company set up in Taiwan....to replace one in the USA !!!!!!!

I'm insisting my daughter learns simplified Chinese at High School now........French and German are so passe.........

when the aust govt, subsidises companies with taxpayers money , there should be pay back terms included, if companies sack everyone and go oversees . you see the govt does this to protect australian investment . in this case i heard about $17 mill /pa . abot $10mill/pa of that was going to about 7 bosses within the company's pocket . great stUff . lets take the handout and get it all to ourselves . these kinds of people do have no moral standards , and think they deserve every cent . they have no concept of value , and truly believe they are differant to everyone else . and they dont work hard to get there . most of them have contacts through there parants and inheret such BS .