Trigger Happy

[xr8cam]

Has anybody had the experience when getting alignment or wheels balanced etc that they over tighten the wheel nuts. Last thursday, I was getting front wheels balanced and I asked the guy politely if he could tell the guy on my car not to do this. I explained my reasons and also provided a preset torque wrench so the staff could get on with it. All good, happy to oblige says he, I get it he said. As i stood and watched from a distance, they first attempted to crush the wheel nuts using a wheel brace and then went over them again with the ratchet gun. I stood there in disbelief, and when I got home, I jacked the car up & did it properly. For those who think I might be a bit a bit picky, this exact situation was the reason my last Falcon wouldn't drive straight. I read a forum by the 'bush mechanic' who along with others, have had these issues with alloy wheels being over-torqued. Very interested in peoples opinions on this. Go Aus in the upcoming world cup, good win over kiwis last night.

[.:4:.]

The place I go to in North parramatta (been going there for over a decade and to date can't complain) will use the gun when the car is on the air, but not over enthusiastically, put it down then nip them up with a cross brace. I've never had an issue with over tight nuts when I have had flats or changed brake pads etc.

[roddy1960]

G'day, Nothing worse than tight nuts...very painful ...Seriously though there is nothing more frustrating when someone has done that. You get a puncture and it turns out to be real hard to release the nuts . .. Cheers Rod

[Mesa]

Even worse when you get a flat and find they didn't put the wheel nut lock key back.

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by Daz290

Even worse when you get a flat and find they didn't put the wheel nut lock key back.

Had that happen a few years back on the wifes pulsar which had rims on it. The father in law was mortified when I belted a chisel into the lock nut and removed it with a big set of multi grips. Mind you, he takes the hubcaps of his 07 corolla when he parks his car at Westfield parramatta because apparently people steal them...

[GCRXR6]

Yeah for sure.. nothing worse than tight nuts. Apart from being hard to undo with the supplied wrench, particularly if you're in your Sunday best, there is of course the danger of the studs breaking. We trust that the rattler guns are set to the required torque. I am puzzled however, how tight nuts can make your Falcon not drive straight.

[.:4:.]

Originally Posted by GCRXR6

Yeah for sure.. nothing worse than tight nuts. Apart from being hard to undo with the supplied wrench, particularly if you're in your Sunday best, there is of course the danger of the studs breaking. We trust that the rattler guns are set to the required torque. I am puzzled however, how tight nuts can make your Falcon not drive straight.

Sounds like either an excuse, or maybe alloys bend under pressure? I doubt that though, normally alloy will just crack or in general fail

[Junkyard-Dog]

Yeah, the local tyre place goes so crazy with the rattle guns that they snapped one of the studs on my dad's Challenger just after he got it. Then they wouldn't admit that it was their fault.

[Autolite]

Thumbs up for Bob Jane Epping (Vic).They used a torque wrench on my alloy wheels without me asking them to do so.

[Mechan1k]

Last Bob Jane I went to they thumb "tightened" the wheel nut ... and didn't use anything else .... more dangerous again.

Got home wondering why the car felt weird to drive ... decided to check them ... and a few of the wheel nuts were nearly off the thread.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Junkyard-Dog

Yeah, the local tyre place goes so crazy with the rattle guns that they snapped one of the studs on my dad's Challenger just after he got it.

Could be why some cars have bolts and not studs

[STINKY NINJA]

I always take just the wheels in to get tyres replaced/balanced etc so it never happens,i make sure I have a spare set of wheels/rims for this exact purpose,heavy handed tyre fitters can be brutal on wheelnuts...

[xr8cam]

Enjoying the comments. I now have a spare set of rims so I will start doing the same as Stinky Ninja. Seems to be another industry with really poor service. When will business owners wake up and realise that exceptional 'customer service' is what brings people through the door. I dont want a poxy cup of coffee, I want your staff to know their job, care about what they do and do it well. I never mind paying when the jobs done well. Pity these days its often a case of want it done properly-do it yourself.

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by xr8cam

....and when I got home, I jacked the car up & did it properly.

Not sure why you had to "jack the car up" to torque the wheel nuts?

You can simply loosen the wheels nuts with the car on Terra Firma, and then torque the nuts to the recommended setting with your Torque wrench.

But to answer your question... Yes, after I get new tyres fitted, I always torque them properly when I come home from the tyre shop.

Having the wrong torque on wheel nuts can cause problems with your brake rotors and cause shuddering.

[xr8cam]

I was taught never loosen wheel nuts off with the cars weight on them, and the bloke who told me that was an old carguy so I have never really doubted him. Granted, it is a pain in the b/side.

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by xr8cam

I was taught never loosen wheel nuts off with the cars weight on them, and the bloke who told me that was an old carguy so I have never really doubted him. Granted, it is a pain in the b/side.

Ford recommend the following in their car owner manuals...

"Loosen each wheel nut approximately half a turn in an anti-clockwise direction before jacking up the car"

[Junkyard-Dog]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

Could be why some cars have bolts and not studs

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel_stud

[Spurious]

Those of us who were lucky enough to absorb some wisdom from our elders understand there's a right way to do everything. Unfortunately this quality is lost on most youth today.

My grandfather taught my mum the basics of safely & efficiently performing vehicle maintenance & in turn she taught me. Her motivation to learn came after a motor scooter crash in the late 70's after a local mechanic hadn't tightened a foot peg.

To remove wheel: Jack a car on flat ground & use chocs on grounded tyres.
Place jack & raise enough to contact chassis & take a bit of weight, then loosen lugs a half turn. With a star wheel brace the ladies can use a leg as leverage.

To refit: tighten all lugs up hand tight with a wheel brace, applying a star pattern working from lug to opposite lug. Give'em a hard hit to ensure they're tight, or wedge something under the tyre to stop it rotating while you do this.
Drop the car to ground & tension up each lug.

I've never used a torque wrench for lugs, only a star brace.
I tighten lugs in a star pattern & go round all lugs twice or 3 times after wheel is back on ground to ensure they're ALL at a similar torque.
Suffice to say, I've never had a rim fall off nor a lug come loose, but I have NEVER had a tyre shop do it to my satisfaction.
If I've been to a tyre shop I always check their work before I drive off & when I get home.
I don't like 17 year olds working on my car for the same reason I don't like them preparing my food. They cannot possibly understand the full ramifications of what may happen if they fail to do their job correctly.

[TheInterceptor]

Originally Posted by STINKY NINJA

I always take just the wheels in to get tyres replaced/balanced etc so it never happens,i make sure I have a spare set of wheels/rims for this exact purpose,heavy handed tyre fitters can be brutal on wheelnuts...

I've been doing this for a while now. First time in a few years I gave my Subaru to Bob Jane in the northern suburbs to swap the wheels over (put tyres from one set to another) and they broke one CB antenna and put the white sidewall lettering on the inside even though I specifically asked for them to remain on the outside. Antenna was not paid for by them. Now I bring wheels into shops.

However the last set I had done, I decided to use a mobile tyre fitter here in Perth that I found on gumtree. I forgot the name of the company but the guy was brilliant, rocked up in a huge van with all the gear. He lent me his (top of the line tools!) to loosen my own wheel nuts and jack the car up and to put back on aswell. So then I know exactly how it is done and to my spec
Will definitely do this with my
Fairlane in the future as I don't trust tyre shops at all with it. Especially major chains.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by BAXRSIX

Having the wrong torque on wheel nuts can cause problems with your brake rotors and cause shuddering.

I found exactly this, first time I cam across this issue was with my EL XR8, took it for tires twice during my ownership and each time ended up with warped rotors

The tightening sequence is also important in avoiding this issue I believe.

I must say that I have never used a torque wrench on wheel nuts, I generally only just 'nip' them up and they are done, but after purchasing a quality torque wrench a few year back I might start torquing them up correctly, surly can't do any harm.

Anyone goes near any of my cars with a rattle gun they will find themselves in strive....

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Spurious

I don't like 17 year olds working on my car for the same reason I don't like them preparing my food. They cannot possibly understand the full ramifications of what may happen if they fail to do their job correctly.

Haha we must both be old as I am exactly the same.

Checked out some wheel alignment places for my ute the other day, walked into one and saw a guy that looked about 15 doing the wheel alignment on a lancer, I asked him about a wheel alignment for an XB Falcon and he asked what an XB Falcon was, so I just backed away slowly and walked out.

Ended up finding a guy in his late 50's down the road who did his apprenticeship working on XB's so he will be getting my business shortly.

Originally Posted by Spurious

They cannot possibly understand the full ramifications of what may happen if they fail to do their job correctly.

I may be generalising but I am talking from experience here, they don't actually care, it's not only about not understanding it's also about not giving a toss, and just being there to earn a wage, rather than be the best at what you do, what ever it may be.

I must say I have come across a few exceptions to this, but generally these people are the exception rather than the norm.

[Bossxr8]

Over torqueing will usually result in brake shudder. I have learnt this lesson.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Junkyard-Dog

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel_stud

From Wiki...

Benefits of studs vs. bolts
The primary advantage of wheel studs over wheel bolts is greater ease for tire changes by creating the ability to lift both the wheel and tire onto the studs creating the ability to hold and locate the assembly during tire changes rather than trying to hold up the wheel and tire while lining up the holes to insert a bolt.

This is why my car comes with a removable stud to make it easier to line up the wheel when changing it, otherwise it's a right pain

[Junkyard-Dog]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

This is why my car comes with a removable stud to make it easier to line up the wheel when changing it, otherwise it's a right pain

Luckily for dad there was still enough stud left that he was able to re-thread it (because the thread was munted) and still get a wheel nut on safely. Either way it was poor workmanship and quite dodgy of the tyre guy since he had actually superglued the wheel nut onto the broken stud to make it appear like it was fine... and no, I'm not kidding. It almost looked like he had cross-threaded the nut and just kept going with the rattlegun but that's just a guess.

We probably have to remove the hubs to replace the studs on his Challenger because they're pressed in but idk I have only ever replaced studs on a Falcon and that was ages ago.

[Express]

Originally Posted by Junkyard-Dog

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wheel_stud

I have a few sets of different rims for my Merc with different offsets and backing plate thicknesses.

I find the bolts are better than the studs as I just choice the bolts that came with the set of rims and know I’ve got the perfect length for each application.

The same goes when using hub adapters, you just buy bolts to suit.

With studs I’d have to change them out to get them perfect.

The bolts are tapered under the head which allows them to locate properly if the diameter of the hole in the rim is different which for aftermarket Merc rims isn’t usually the case as they are not necessarily so generic.

Still it doesn’t stop tyre shops from overtighten them and I do a check with a brace before I leave and I have a rattle gun at home as well.

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by Daz290

Even worse when you get a flat and find they didn't put the wheel nut lock key back.

Even worse when you're out on the Nullabor and get a flat.
Then to remember the tyres were replaced in Melbourne!

[XByoot]

Super glueing a stud on? Man,that's is beyond belief...don't worry I believe you,it's just bloody horrific. If anyone's in Sydney I can say that Don Cornells Tyres on Stoney creek road are very very good. I'm in Qld these days but still get down there regularly and took a car there for tyres recently. Same fella doing the work that was there 20 years ago! Starts all nuts by hand several turns,rattle gun set on a low setting,then snugs them down with a wheel brace. I checked them later and they were sensibly tight. They even say thanks for your business and mean it!

[ebv8]

i got an alignment a few months ago at kmart auto, they manually torqued the nuts, removed my locknuts with no key and replaced them with spare nuts and used anti sieze on the threads and for no extra charge. shame i moved away from that place

i went to a local place where i live and they didn't even balance the wheels after fitting tyres and left the old weights on them....never go back there

[commodorenutt]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

G'day, Nothing worse than tight nuts...very painful ...Seriously though there is nothing more frustrating when someone has done that. You get a puncture and it turns out to be real hard to release the nuts . .. Cheers Rod

I've helped out 2 people in the last 6 months who were stranded with flat tyres, couldn't get the nuts off with the factory brace. One was an old lady who couldn't afford NRMA road service, and I did the whole swap for her, and the other was a young couple, and I had to educate them both on how to change a tyre.....

In both cases, I had to literally jump my full weight on the wheel brace to crack the nuts that were overdone by tyre shops.

I know when the dealer rotated my tyres at the service, they undid them with the rattle gun, and did them back up with a wheel brace. And they didn't mind you sitting in a position in the waiting area where you could watch them (only worked when your car was in the first bay - you couldn't see the other bays).

Originally Posted by GCRXR6

I am puzzled however, how tight nuts can make your Falcon not drive straight.

I had this happen with my FG when I got new tyres. It still drove straight, but it felt like it wasn't balanced properly (steering wheel shudder that increased with speed), and squirmed around under brakes.

I turned around to go back, only to find they were closing up for the night, and they told me to bring it back the next day for a re-balance.

I got it home and did my usual trick after getting new tyres - undo all the wheels with the breaker bar, wire brush any rust off the hubs and wheel mounting faces, and refit them properly with a wheel brace - to prevent issues later.

Driver's front had a sliver of metal between the wheel & the hub face, and one nut was loose (other 4 were super-tight). I can only assume it got there
during the refit - they held the wheel up, and buzzed 1 nut on with the rattle gun (probably not realising at the time that the wheel wasn't fully home on the hub**. When they buzzed the other 4 on, it pulled it home.

Scraped the embedded bit of alloy out of the wheel mating face, wire brushed it all, and the problem was fixed.

[Olbucko]

For as long as I can remember my local tyre service has always used the correct torque limiting extension bar on the end of the rattle gun. The thing I worry about most is where they put the jack.