Skoda destroys Porsche (house)

new2ford · 24-10-2015, 09:03 AM

Porsche fans are up in arms because Ferdinand Porsche's birthplace in Vratislavice, Czech Republic has been largely demolished in a "reconstruction-restoration" by its owner Skoda Auto which is creating a museum celebrating the Czech car industry (Porsche was Czech).

http://www.visitliberec.eu/en/aktual...eho-rodny-dum/

That's before. The photos here show how it's going!

http://liberec.idnes.cz/bourani-rodn...erec-zpravy_tm

(hopefully the auto translate will work for you)

The claim is that the front of the building was a later modification and it's being reconstructed to how it looked when Porsche was born there - even if it becomes mostly new in the process.

Mind you, how many "historic" car restorations involve majority replacement of original material so maybe it's not inappropriate for the industry!

Porsche later went to Germany where he plagiarised a Czech Tatra design to create the Beetle that started the VW empire, so maybe it's an appropriate form of Czech payback!

SumoDog68 · 24-10-2015, 01:48 PM

Ferdinand Porsche was ethnic German ( or is it Austrian) but his birthplace changed names and countries :-) when he was born it was Maffersdorf and part of Austro Hungarian empire. Today it is Vratislavice .As it is common in Europe borders moved a fair bit over the years.

new2ford · 24-10-2015, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Ferdinand Porsche was ethnic German ( or is it Austrian) but his birthplace changed names and countries :-) when he was born it was Maffersdorf and part of Austro Hungarian empire. Today it is Vratislavice .As it is common in Europe borders moved a fair bit over the years.

Yes and no. He came from Bohemia which is part of modern Czech Republic. Ethnically he was German but his family roots and education were Bohemian; ethnic Germans have lived there since the middle ages. It would be like saying, e.g. that an Australian of Chinese descent is Chinese not Australian (on another car forum somebody actually derogatively tried to say that about Calvin Luk, the designer of the BMW X1, but the comment was unsurprisingly deleted by the moderator!).

Bohemia/Czechoslovakia was a multicultural country including several ethnic groups. The borders never moved in several hundred years until Hitler tried a bit of annexing which was reversed in 1945. I know some people of German descent from Liberec region - they consider themselves Czech.

I guess the point Skoda is trying to make is celebrating Czech talent, of whatever ethnicity, in the history of the motor industry. But the "restoration" of this house seems a little radical for some!

XG_Falcon · 24-10-2015, 04:38 PM

Yes it disgusted me both as a German and a Porsche fan. On a side note: ethnicity and nationalism are not bywords or synonyms.

new2ford · 24-10-2015, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XG_Falcon

Yes it disgusted me both as a German and a Porsche fan. On a side note: ethnicity and nationalism are not bywords or synonyms.

Yet they're taking it back to the way it looked when Porsche was there. Did you see the image of the final result? The building was largely altered throughout its life. How many car restorations go back this far into the original fabric yet are still said to be historic?

There are lots of "medieval" buildings in Germany that were built after 1945 because the originals were destroyed in the war, like Goethe's house in Frankfurt. These are completely 100% new, unlike the work on the Porsche house.

Re ethnicity, beware of the Hitler factor where he considered all ethnic Germans everywhere to be "German" and set out to expand Germany to include them. Ask any ethnic German Australian whether they're German or Australian and they will tell you the latter. Likewise, Germans settled in the Czech lands, often for centuries, were Bohemians/Czechs. Porsche was from one of these families.

SumoDog68 · 24-10-2015, 06:22 PM

Reminds me of another great engineer ( probably one of the greatest inventors of all time) - Nikola Tesla. Born in what is today's Croatia , then it was Austro Hungarian empire and he was ethnic Serb. Spent most of his life in America. Most consider him American of Serbian descent or Serbian. Haven't heard of anyone considering him Croatian even though he was born there .Pretty complex you would have to agree.
Comparison with Chinese or German descent Australians is not entirely correct - Porsche was a German speaker and studied and worked in Austria and Germany . When he was born the country was Austro Hungarian empire .If a young Chinese Australian would go to China to study and work and spend all of his life there you would probably consider him to be Chinese. Even that is not entirely correct as history of Australia and Bohemia is very different . Australia was always Australia and cities didn't have Chinese names 100 years ago.
With successful people every nation is happy to claim them I guess :-)

new2ford · 24-10-2015, 07:11 PM

Well Porsche's career is a mixed bag that I'm not sure the Czechs should be entirely happy to celebrate (stolen design, aligned with Hitler etc), but Skoda's agenda would partly be as a fellow company of VAG.

To draw analogies further, the Kingdom of Bohemia was a country ruled by the Austro Hungarian empire. A bit like when Australia was a colony of Britain (19th Australian achievers are referred to as Australians, not British), but Bohemia was an actual country, more than a colony. The education system was run by the country, not from outside, but it had instruction in Czech and German to cater for the three significant ethnic groups, Czech, German and Jewish.

Porsche was educated in Bohemia until he was 18, attending also the Imperial Technical School in Liberec. He went to Austria when he was 18. Tesla similarly spent his formative years to a similar age in Croatia and in my book both countries have a legitimate claim to both personalities as one of theirs. Moreover, Porsche was a Czech citizen until 1934 - to 59 years of age, that is most of his life - when he relinquished it as part of his path to becoming a Nazi currying favour with Hitler. Tesla on the other hand became a US citizen at 35.

Mixed bag, Mr Porsche, and there's some underlying Czech influence in those VWs and Porsches. I think they're right to claim him but he's a tainted personality and I wouldn't be voting for that claim myself.

XG_Falcon · 24-10-2015, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new2ford

Ask any ethnic German Australian whether they're German or Australian and they will tell you the latter.

I'm a German Australian. I identify equally with both countries. I think you misunderstood my previous comment. Read it again.

new2ford · 24-10-2015, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XG_Falcon

I'm a German Australian. I identify equally with both countries. I think you misunderstood my previous comment. Read it again.

Sorry I thought you meant a German fan, not literally German! Well I was born in UK and have an EU (UK) passport but I identify myself as Australian although of British ethnicity.

There are lots of Germans/descendents living here on the south coast of NSW so I guess I get the idea of how they feel. I go to the German Club in Wollongong where they always declare in strong German accents how Aussie they are - though sometimes I wonder what they're thinking when they're watching those Germany vs Australia soccer matches on the big screen, while waving Australian flags

I think Skoda think they're genuinely and respectfully doing the right thing with the Porsche house but it would certainly stretch conservation principles to the limit. I can only refer again to the Goethe house etc.

XG_Falcon · 24-10-2015, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new2ford

Sorry I thought you meant a German fan, not literally German! Well I was born in UK and have an EU (UK) passport but I identify myself as Australian although of British ethnicity.

There are lots of Germans/descendents living here on the south coast of NSW so I guess I get the idea of how they feel. I go to the German Club in Wollongong where they always declare in strong German accents how Aussie they are - though sometimes I wonder what they're thinking when they're watching those Germany vs Australia soccer matches on the big screen, while waving Australian flags

I think Skoda think they're genuinely and respectfully doing the right thing with the Porsche house but it would certainly stretch conservation principles to the limit. I can only refer again to the Goethe house etc.

No problem, I had guessed it was a simple misunderstanding. On the topic of heritage, destruction and reconstruction... have you ever seen Nuremberg? When I saw the city for the first time twelve years ago it was like stepping into a time warp.

There are still many things standing (in Nuremberg and all over Germany) that were built 33-45 though.

Edit: I don't have an identifiable German accent though, I moved here when I was 11 so my English-speaking accent changed a lot through my formative (teenaged) years.

I still sound like a proper "Fritz" when I speak in the native tongue though

new2ford · 24-10-2015, 08:55 PM

^^
Yes I've seen Nuremberg. I've spent a lot of time in Bavaria the last few years. Very beautiful towns and countryside.

If you have a Falcon you're very definitely Aussie though.

On the other hand we now have two German and one Czech car

XG_Falcon · 24-10-2015, 10:09 PM

I'm as Aussie as football, meat pies and kangaroos mate

XRtowcar · 24-10-2015, 10:22 PM

Just as well his first Porsche named car wasn't sitting in his garage.

MethodX · 25-10-2015, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new2ford

Sorry I thought you meant a German fan, not literally German! Well I was born in UK and have an EU (UK) passport but I identify myself as Australian although of British ethnicity.

There are lots of Germans/descendents living here on the south coast of NSW so I guess I get the idea of how they feel. I go to the German Club in Wollongong where they always declare in strong German accents how Aussie they are - though sometimes I wonder what they're thinking when they're watching those Germany vs Australia soccer matches on the big screen, while waving Australian flags

I think Skoda think they're genuinely and respectfully doing the right thing with the Porsche house but it would certainly stretch conservation principles to the limit. I can only refer again to the Goethe house etc.

Hopefully they support Germany.

Crazy Dazz · 25-10-2015, 02:28 AM

A Porsche House?

So the bedroom is out the back behind the dunny?
And all the corners are designed to kill you?

XG_Falcon · 25-10-2015, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

A Porsche House?

So the bedroom is out the back behind the dunny?
And all the corners are designed to kill you?

Well I don't know about Porsche houses but I was always told "those in glass houses ought not to throw stones..."

Two things:
Australian Fords are not exactly renowned for their ability to go around corners safely at speed...
but a brand new Falcon will be an infinitely rarer vehicle than any new Porsche model post-2016, so I guess that's something.

new2ford · 25-10-2015, 08:54 AM

Territorys are pretty good on bends!

Funnily enough I was involved in a project a few years ago to fit a cafe sympathetically into the preserved facade of the Ford factory at Homebush. It was OK but I wanted to get my Territory onto the podium to photo it in front of the factory but a builder's truck was in the way

Nicely preserved building but there are sacriligious signs out the front from other car manufacturers!

That well-designed but appallingly-built POS the Escort was manufactured here.