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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#1 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Central Q..10kms west of Rocky...
Posts: 8,307
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Holden plans Commodore able to run on 85% ethanol as standard
BARRY PARK August 2, 2010 Holden is expected to announce today that it will soon rely on alcohol to future-proof Australia's best-selling car against dwindling world oil supplies. The carmaker is expected to unveil a version of the Commodore that can run on anything from 100 per cent petrol to E85, a combination of 15 per cent petrol and 85 per cent ethanol, while Caltex will trial a chain of E85 fuelling stations in a joint venture that will help both companies develop a strategy for introducing the fuel nationally. The fuel is also expected to cost a lot less at the pump, with ethanol production costs running at about 50¢ a litre. Caltex said its ''Bio E-Flex'' fuel would ''offer an energy option beyond the traditional fuel mix that can significantly reduce greenhouse gas emissions''. ''Caltex will be profiling the new fuel in Melbourne before it begins its national roll-out of the product,'' the company said. The ethanol-blended fuels would offer ''an energy option beyond the traditional fuel mix that can significantly reduce greenhouse gas emissions''. Holden is expected to announce that it will soon be standard for Commodore engines to have E85 compatibility. Owners will be able to decide if they want to refuel with petrol or any other combination of the fuel-ethanol mix up to E85. While Holden has not sold an E85-compatible car in Australia before, Saab - at the time owned by General Motors, the same US parent as Holden - has tried to attract buyers to the fuel. Saab's 9-5 BioPower, introduced to Australia in 1997, struggled after it was stifled by the limited availability of E85 refuelling stations. It was quietly dropped from Australian showrooms this year, shortly before the cash-strapped GM sold the Swedish carmaker to the Dutch sports car company Spyker. The 9-5 used about 30 per cent more fuel when running on E85 than when with petrol alone, although the engine did perform better while running on the fuel and produced significantly lower exhaust emissions. Holden is expected to announce E85 compatibility for its 3.0-litre and 3.6-litre V6 engines, while an E85-compatible version of its 6.0-litre V8 engine is tied to an export program that is developing Chevrolet-badged Commodores as police cars for the US. My comment...sugar belongs in my coffee ..not my tank...
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#2 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,021
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As per most Holden press releases, I would rather a timeframe than to be told it is coming "soon".......
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#3 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 3,568
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Quote:
SO if holden actually get there it still wont be anything new |
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#4 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 194
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unofficially its been on the cards for a while. Last I heard it they were going to have browsers at Holden Dealerships.
I would like to see the official fuel figures as well. Might be cheaper but you will use more of it. Depends on the tune i guess. http://www.chevrolet.com/experience/...ions/biofuels/ |
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#6 | ||
Flairs - Truckers Delight
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Northside Likes: Opposite Lock
Posts: 5,731
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educate me here
if people want a high-octane, low energy content per litre fuel why don't they just go with the one that is excise exempt (LPG) rather than the one that attracts the exact same amount of excise as regular unleaded? IMO they cannot possibly sell E85 cheap enough to make it better value for money than regular unleaded, let alone LPG
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#7 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
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will the benifit of being slightlycheaper be outweighed by extra fuel needed? if every one was to go the ethanol mix will supply and demand negate the cost benefits of useing this fuel? is Lpg cleaner than ethanol blend?
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#8 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: GEELONG
Posts: 7,946
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no longer have a ford but a ford man at heart R.I.P 98 EL MAY YOU HAVE A GOOD LIFE IN FALCON HEAVEN [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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#9 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sun City, North Australis
Posts: 4,274
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Quote:
Brazil has run on ethanol for well over 15yrs. Ethanol was made in Australia during WW2 because of the high demand. And if you watch "Duel" (1971) Speilbergs first movie, Dennis Weaver fills his old car with "Ethol". Seemingly it takes forever for car manufacturers and the oil companies to do things?
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You've seen it, you've heard it and your still asking questions?? Don't write off the Goose until you see the box going into the hole.... |
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#10 | ||
Where to next??
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,893
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Wonder if the engines will be a specific option or an across the board fitment?
I'm guessing that tunes and engine settings will be different depending on what goes in the tank. In mums old 1994 Barina they had a module in the engine bay, sorta like a plug. If you had it in one way it was calibrated to run on 91 and if you flipped the module the other way it was calibrated to run on 95. Don't know what it actually did however. Re the 'sugar in coffee only' comments. I bet those sentiments will that change pretty quickly for most people if E85 is sold at a good discount, say 20c a litre less than ULP. Cheers. |
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#11 | ||
FORMERLY TX3DUDE
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: "THE GONG"
Posts: 2,487
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this is the difference between holden and ford marketing. Holden does something mediocre (e85) compatible and its on the NEWS(on seven news tonight) Ford does something terrific T6 engineering and now T6 wagon and youll barely hear a whisper...
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#12 | ||||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,799
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Quote:
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#13 | ||
Oo\===/oO
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tamworth
Posts: 11,348
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Model-T Ford could run on Ethanol....
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#14 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 706
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at 20c a litre cheaper that works out to about 15% cheaper and they reckon u use about 30% more so in the words of a famous ranga that aint movin ffoooorrrrrwwwwaaaarrrd ill stiil have 2 in my coffee thanks
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#15 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sun City, North Australis
Posts: 4,274
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Quote:
All cars can run on ethanol. The biggest issue is that the alcohol attacks some rubbers. So hoses, o-rings and diaphrams wont last as long. Ethanol has been around for a very long time but its never been really accepted? The oil companies dont like to loose their stranglehold they have. ![]()
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You've seen it, you've heard it and your still asking questions?? Don't write off the Goose until you see the box going into the hole.... |
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#16 | |||
Where to next??
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,893
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Quote:
Must have missed the bit you quoted. ![]() |
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#17 | |||
Oo\===/oO
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tamworth
Posts: 11,348
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Quote:
Its not about saving money, its about moving from oil based fuels, Ethanol gives us the use of internal combustion engines instead of toy car motors. Why does every one have to be so pessimistic, if this was a Ford announcement we would embrace it. Ethenol fuel is a welcome step, i only hope Ford see the same way. Ecoboost + Ethanol... ![]()
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#18 | |||
Where to next??
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,893
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Quote:
Look at higher consumption and lower outputs of the first LPG cars, and look at what they use and put out now when better and more efficient fuel delivery systems are used. |
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#19 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
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edit delete
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#20 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,242
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Quote:
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/f...-1111115400281 A little boy in africa doesnt give a crap about how much petrol someone puts in his commodore, and its implication on the oil price because he aint interested in driving a car. But when his mum cant buy bread, because the local farmer is able to get more money for his wheat to be converted to ethanol, then the little boy has an issue. 50 cents to produce a litre of ethanol, it sound slike the author works for Holden Marketing. The stories a complete ****, and only allows Holden to sell a car, that runs on the rubbish produced by the companies marketing department. |
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#21 | ||||
FG GT 5.4 w/ additions!
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sunny SE Melbourne
Posts: 2,105
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Quote:
I'm worried about how much more I'll have to pay for my morning piece of Toast, bowl of wheeties and cup of coffee with TWO sugars. All this because Holden wants to sell a few more cars. ![]() Well I'll do my bit and keep driving my big V8 that runs on premium unleaded. ![]()
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#22 | |||
Now Fordless
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Fremantle, WA
Posts: 3,611
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#23 | ||
Coupe/interceptor adopter
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 580
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The real concern is the waste of energy spent on growing the cane and producing fuel from it. It is highly innefficient in terms of acreage land use and sheer amount of fresh produce to litre of fuel. I'm all for something other than fossil based fuel but this is all marketing gimmos and not sustainable long term.
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#24 | |||
VFII SS UTE
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Central Coast
Posts: 6,353
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Quote:
do they say the same about biodiesel?? palm oil.
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#25 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 95
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In terms of energy balance the better option for Australia is sugar cane. One energy unit in produces 8 to 9 units out. Corn is around 1 to 1.3 and cellulose ethanol is around 2.
Given we are now importing base oil products and as this will increase in the future we can expect the price of oil based fuels to rise faster than the rate of inflation ; even more so when places like China and India also want the same diminishing resource. The price for sugar is low and growing cane to make ethanol as Brazil does (around 85% of their fuel is cane based) makes economic sense and also political sense. The yield for cane ethanol is 6,800 ltr to 8,000 ltr / hectare. Speaking environmentally; unleaded produces around 2.44 kg / ltr CO2 and ethanol around 1.94. so there is a good political case to be made for it on that basis alone. Peter. Last edited by BigBlue; 03-08-2010 at 10:26 AM. Reason: Extra information. |
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#26 | |||
IWCMOGTVM Club Supporter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern Suburbs Melbourne
Posts: 17,799
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Commodore to go it alone on E85 for now
http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257774000BE09B Quote:
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#27 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: GEELONG
Posts: 7,946
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Quote:
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no longer have a ford but a ford man at heart R.I.P 98 EL MAY YOU HAVE A GOOD LIFE IN FALCON HEAVEN [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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#28 | |||
FG XR6T trayback
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: N-W NSW
Posts: 1,308
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#29 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 95
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Agreed, but I think that point will be lost in the political back and forth about energy independence..supporting Aussie farmers...etc.
This alternative is as much about politics as it is about engineering. Peter. |
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#30 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,312
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Quote:
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