LS3 for final Commodore

[Sioso]

http://www.carsales.com.au/news/2014...-last-ss-46791


Commodore to bow out with a bang, but 6.2-litre SS will be Holden's last rear-drive V8 sports sedan

Holden is saving its best for last. motoring.com.au can now reveal the local GM arm will bless the final, MY16 Commodore with GM's bigger, more powerful 6.2-litre LS3 V8.

The official confirmation of the engine swap is months away, but the deal is done and dusted. Holden insiders says V8 are set to comprise up to half the Commodore sold as production of the rear-drive big Aussie is wound down ahead of its cessation of local production in 2017.

Holden last week launched its upgraded MY15 Commodore line-up.

A Craig Lowndes limited-edition and steering wheel paddle shifters for the top-shelf SS V Redline (on which the Lowndes car is based) are the headline acts of the MY15 range. The paddles will soon be available for other sports auto models.

Disappointingly for V8 fans, however, the outputs of Holden's 6.0-litre SS models have been unchanged since the 2006 VE — at 270kW/530Nm (manual) and 260kW/517Nm (auto).

That means Holden's popular SS models, which comprise almost a quarter of all Commodores sold this year, will be outpowered by Ford's born-again XR8 sedan from December — for the first time since September 2011, when the FG XR8 and its 290kW 5.4-litre V8 bowed out. Indeed, while the final XR6 Turbo will continue with 'only' an SS-matching 270kW/533Nm, the most powerful version of Ford's last ever Falcon will embarrass its opposite number at Holden with a 335kW/570Nm supercharged 5.0-litre V8.

Of course, HSV's benchmark-setting 430kW/730Nm supercharged 6.2-litre GTS sedan ($96,990) will remain Australia's most powerful production car (on paper), topping the Blue Oval's limited-edition, discontinued 351kW/570Nm supercharged 5.0-litre FPV GT-F 351 ($77,990).

But at $52,490 plus ORCs, the 335kW 2014 XR8 will wear the exact same pricetag as Holden's sports range-topping Commodore SS V Redline, before it is axed for good along with the rest of the Falcon range in about two years.

Ford's reign over Holden will be relatively short-lived, however Holden's is planning a special send-off for its large-car stalwart in the form of the upgraded MY16 Commodore, before it too rides off into the sunset a year later at the end of 2017.

As Ford will with Falcon, Holden will stockpile Commodores and sell them well into the next year (2018).

Falcon's replacement has been confirmed as the new Mondeo. GM, on the other hand, is yet to decide whether to release Opel's next-generation large sedan and wagon here as the Holden Insignia in 2016 (when it becomes available from Germany), or wait until 2018 and attempt a transition between its homegrown VF II and the imported 'Commodore'.

The company faces a similar quandary with Cruze which, unlike Commodore, is plummeting in popularity. While Commodore sales (23,784 units) are 26.5 per cent up (September YTD) and now account for almost three-quarters of all mainstream large cars sold this year, Cruze is down more than 25 per cent at just 14,267 – less than 45% of the volume of Toyota Corolla or Mazda3.

Keeping the current Cruze on sale until 2017 will only continue that slide in Australia's largest sales segment, but replacing the locally built model before then with the second-generation Cruze already on sale in China has big ramifications for GM's South Australian plant.

Internally, Holden also has concerns about how its traditional customer base will embrace the European Insignia, a front- and all-wheel drive four- and six-cylinder model that will likely also replace the unloved Malibu sedan.

Either way, it's now almost certain Australians won't have access to a large, V8 rear-drive Holden sedan after the Australian-made Commodore is killed off.

Holden insiders indicated to motoring.com.au at last week's MY15 Commodore launch that GM has no plans to produce a replacement for the Commodore's US export twin, the Chevy SS. This is despite the fact the SS currently forms the basis of Chevrolet's NASCAR program in North America.

With the 'Zeta legacy' plan to continue producing V8 versions of the current Commodore (badged simply as the Holden SS) in Adelaide beyond 2017 now officially axed, it seems the same corporate average fuel economy (CAFE) issues that prevented the Chevy SS being shipped to the US in sustainable numbers will also prevent GM from developing a replacement.

It's unclear which model GM will field in North America's premier car racing category post-2017... Nor, if it chooses the Malibu to compete with the Toyota Camry and Ford Fusion (Mondeo), how it will publicly defend the axing of Chevrolet's first rear-drive V8 sedan in 17 years.

Asked why he believes an unprecedented 37 per cent of Commodore customers bought a V8 this year, GM Holden sales director Peter Keley said: "It's not V8 or rear-wheel drive per se, it's what the vehicle delivers as a package."

Keley would not confirm whether Holden will introduce the Camaro coupe here, where it would be a direct rival for next year's new Ford Mustang, but what's certain is that GM won't exit Australia's lucrative V8 market without a fight.

Which brings us full circle to the new 6.2...

In what will be a fitting swansong for the Commodore, the final, MY16 model will feature GM's 6.2-litre LS3 V8 — effectively offering HSV performance in its own SS.

While that's in exactly what Ford is doing with its FPV GT-engined XR8, the difference is that HSV will continue to sell Holden-based vehicles beyond 2017. Clearly, regardless of ownership and licensing arrangements, Holden regards HSV as a competitor for its profitable V8 models – perhaps as much as Ford's XR8.

"We need to be competitive," was all Keley would say on the subject.

But the Holden sales chief confirmed that a final Commodore upgrade was forthcoming and that V8s could grow to account for as much as half of all Commodore sales before production ceases.

GM Holden's Executive Director of Engineering Brett Vivian was only slightly less guarded at the MY15 Commodore launch, saying that Holden had to give its SS customers a reason to upgrade.

"We have to make out cars obsolete," he said, adding that the upgrade is technically feasible since the 6.2 LS3 V8 is already installed in the Commodore at Holden's Elizabeth plant for HSV models and the Chev SS.

While GM's Mexican-made fourth-generation small-block V8 replaced the 5.7-litre Gen III here in the 2006 VE Commodore, HSV replaced its 6.0-litre LS2 with the bigger-bore LS3 from the previous C6 Corvette in the upgraded E-Series range released in May 2008.

Although it has been reserved for HSV in Australia since then, the LS3 has already been superseded in the US by the LT1, GM's new fifth-generation 'Small Block Gen 5' 6.2-litre V8, with a 466kW/861Nm supercharged 'LT4' version powering the latest C7 Corvette Z06.

If Holden lifts the SV-enhanced 340kW/570Nm LS3 that's now standard for R8 models in HSV's upcoming MY15 line-up, the MY16 Commodore SS will match the XR8 for torque and out-power it by 5kW.

HSV's SV LS3 features a bi-modal air intake and Camaro-sourced high-flow inlet tube, high-flow bi-modal exhaust with high-flow headers and catalytic converters, and dual-mass flywheel.

Alternatively, Holden could settle for the 325kW/550Nm LS3 that previously powered R8 models and is now fitted to regular HSV ClubSports and Maloos. This engine would fall 10kW and 20Nm short of the XR8's blown Miami V8.

Or it could make do with HSV's previous base engine, the 317kW/550Nm LS3, which would make the MY16 SS 18kW less powerful than the XR8 but still at least 47kW/20Nm better than the 6.0-litre GM V8 that powers Holden's current SS Commodore.

Either way, HSV should still have scope to differentiate its mainstream MY16 range from Holden's 6.2-litre Commodores – and to continue to attract even more buyers to its epic supercharged GTS than it did to its outgoing ClubSport entry model.

Indeed, the GTS, SS and XR8 will be the finest examples of an Australian V8 sports sedan dynasty stretching back to 1969 in Holden's case and, for Ford, as early as 1966.

[fgpsi]

Big deal motor is a nugget

and lol at them thinking the Miami is actually 335kw

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by fgpsi

Big deal motor is a nugget

and lol at them thinking the Miami is actually 335kw

So true, as has been proven, Holden quote the maximum their engine produces and Ford quotes the minimum.

[HULK_I6T]

An ss with a thumping 6.2 LS3 V8!!! Yes thanks

I'll wait for the FGX but I think the VF is a very nice car.. With 6.2 litres of big hairy cheated V8 behind it... Wow

The Miami motor is nice but depends on the FGX if it's a better car than vf

[SensationFG8]

The Miami craps on the ls3 and is on par with the lsa.

The XR8 will be better than the SS for all the things that matter when driving. The SS will be better than the XR8 at the little gimmicky gadgets that you shouldn't be using while driving.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

The Miami craps on the ls3 and is on par with the lsa.

The XR8 will be better than the SS for all the things that matter when driving. The SS will be better than the XR8 at the little gimmicky gadgets that you shouldn't be using while driving.

Just have to wait and see.
The SS is no slouch and the VF seems to have a pretty decent chassis underneath and decent steering.
But if you're referring to 1/4 mile times and nothing with bends then you may be right.

[SensationFG8]

What do we need to wait for? It'll basically be a clubby in SS trim. It's all known quantities really, I dount there will be too many surprises.

I think most people would say the GT is better than a clubsport (hence why it's always compared to a gts). It's logical to predict the XR8 would therefore out drive the SS, but fail in the toy department.

[pursuit2359]

I'm very surprised that Holden have made it public that the MY16 Commodore will get the LS3 - they're usually very careful not to discuss future product plans. I can't imagine that HSV are going to be impressed, either. I sense there's more here than meets the eye.

[PepeLePew]

I don't understand the timing here. Do HSV owners buy between now and then knowing the LS3 will be offered in the bargain SS and the HSV have a bigger better faster transplant? Does it encourage purchase of the 6L SS now given the horizon has been advertised? Oh hang on, we've had those arguments about values 'freefalling' lately......

I get the idea, and it's a good thing for SS buyers. But I don't get why now except to tempt any brand neutrals not to buy XR8?

[eb2fairmont]

maybe hsv will get the 5.5?

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by SensationFG8

The Miami craps on the ls3 and is on par with the lsa.

The XR8 will be better than the SS for all the things that matter when driving. The SS will be better than the XR8 at the little gimmicky gadgets that you shouldn't be using while driving.

XR8 has speed on its side, SS range have a far better chassis.

Regarding the comment that the GT is better than the Clubsport because it was compared to the GTS, that was only in terms of straight line pace as they were both supercharged. The GTS bettered it in the driving department and so did the Clubsport, been that way for a while, Gen-F/VF widened the gap again.

If you like drag racing, XR8 all the way.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by tempted

Seriously though, the V8 versions of the Commodore have sold exceptionally well considering that outputs have remained the same since VE was launched. This tells me that most people dont care about outright power figures.

There's been this idea getting around for a few years that just because Holden/HSV's LS cars aren't as quick as Ford's supercharged Miami cars, they're not quick at all. In reality, they seem to be plenty for most people. The current SS models also have the Walkinshaw 310kw option (intake, full exhaust, tune) which doesn't affect the warranty, I've seen a few of them getting around (huge Walkinshaw badges on the boot).

[Chopped]

They really need to put in now.

What times does the VF Clubsport do ?

[HULK_I6T]

I'm sure the ls3 will hold its own in any company..

It's been run against the f6 heaps of times, usually a coat of paint between them

The f6 also keeps the Miami more than honest.

There's just something about having all that displacement, 6.2 litres...

It it turns up in an ss, mid $40s for a ls3 ss... Wow

[XBGTFGGTP]

Originally Posted by PepeLePew

I don't understand the timing here. Do HSV owners buy between now and then knowing the LS3 will be offered in the bargain SS and the HSV have a bigger better faster transplant? Does it encourage purchase of the 6L SS now given the horizon has been advertised? Oh hang on, we've had those arguments about values 'freefalling' lately......

I get the idea, and it's a good thing for SS buyers. But I don't get why now except to tempt any brand neutrals not to buy XR8?

Correct, Holden scared of the XR8 stealing sales from them. Trying to get people to Holdon until upgraded SS available.

Miami against LS3, not even worth mentioning

[XBGTFGGTP]

Considering XR8 will have R-Spec suspension and Brembo's, it will be a match for a SS, Clubsport Boy Scout brigade easily for the average punter.

[Kieron]

Originally Posted by XBGTFGGTP

Correct, Holden scared of the XR8 stealing sales from them. Trying to get people to Holdon until upgraded SS available.

I'd suggest these statements are closer to the mark given there will be only 1,200 odd XR8's produced which will easily be snapped up by us Ford fans -

Holden regards HSV as a competitor for its profitable V8 models.
Holden have to give its SS customers a reason to upgrade.

I'd be worried if I was Ryan.

I wonder if ultimately, it's Holden that will kill off the Ford vs Holden rivalry? We will still have a rear drive V8 but so far, no firm word on the Camaro.

[chevypower]

They should use the LT1 for all Commodore V8s, and the LT4 for the GTS.

[Sioso]

Originally Posted by baboon

Spin on Sunday, sell on Monday?

I don't know where that quote came from but it isn't mine, so take it down.

[SensationFG8]

I don't agree with you regarding clubsport adrenaline. Have no problem with the GTS getting the complete package tag. The clubsport isn't near the GTS performance or handling wise.

The gt rspec setup more than holds its own against the ls3 hsv's.

[Dave R]

I'm pretty sure Motor tested the GTF against the Clubsport & despite the GTF's power advantage the Clubby still won.

[duaned]

There is nothing wrong with the old 6.0L dinosaur in the VF range! Granted, Holden have fitted them with an exceptionally restricted exhaust from factory. I have just fitted a OTR intake, headers, 100 cell cats etc. 2.5inch mid section and retained the stock standard rear mufflers (I have an auto with AFM) with basic tune and I have 257 RWKW and bags of torque for very little money!
Stock it was 213 RWKW but I only still have 950 kms on the clock. So I have a car that is as quick (most likely quicker) than a standard XR6T but handles much better and is a better drive than the XR.

It's no Miami though! But I agree, the V8 Commodore sells very well and most appear not concerned on kw statements, but the total overall package and of course the price with the V8 under the bonnet. We are a lucky bunch, or at least until 2016.

[SensationFG8]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

I'm pretty sure Motor tested the GTF against the Clubsport & despite the GTF's power advantage the Clubby still won.

I can find no such article but "won" in terms of driving pleasure or "won" in terms of gadgets offered or as journalists like to put it the "total package"? You'll note my first comment never tried to blanket claim the FPV is better than the hsv on every front, just the one that matters to me ;)

Edit I found an article on drive, rspec vs SRT8 vs clubsport r8. Having trouble linking it on phone but it gave the win to the GT. IMO The XR8 will still dominate an ls3 powered SS for pure driving pleasure, the SS will win on toys.

The HSV is just a little imprecise when pushed to the limit and its interior doesn't quite reflect its price tag.

The Ford is the only one of the three not to have a data-logging system for track work. But this isn't enough to knock it off the top of the podium.

It gets our nod because it best meets its brief of a hard-core road-and-track weapon.

[Dave R]

You've quoted a review of the old E-Series Clubsport from 2012, not the Gen-F Clubsport

This is the one you want. The VFs/Gen-Fs are seriously good driving machines and every review both here and abroad has backed that up. As I've said before, to put that into perspective consider that in Motor Trend's testing the Redline SS managed the same figure 8 track time as the all new '15 Mustang GT. Pretty impressive stuff. I think the XR8 is going to be quick, but no way will it out-do the VF as a driver's car. I guess we'll disagree on this for now.

[SensationFG8]

Yep I doubt we'll agree on this one, it all depends what you define as a drivers car, I prefer less intervention by electronics. Having driven both I prefer the GT handling and power over the GEN-F Clubsport.

You guys enjoy your Holdens though, I'm not saying they're a bad car, just that the LS3 is not on par with the Miami.

[shaness8]

I doubt we'll get the HSV spec LS3 more like the 310kw VF SS chevrolet export.

[Boza]

Love the ls engine's not so much the chassis there in have driven a few late model commodores and not impressed at all with the handling feels very twitchy and I feel i'm always correcting the wheel slightly I learned to drive in my uncles vl and to me it the ride is way better and tighter in late model commodores but they handle the same as that vl did. But I love ls2 &ls3 engine's would love to stuff one into something like an old rx-7 or something would love an older sports car with big late model ls in it.

[johnydep]

Originally Posted by Boza

Love the ls engine's not so much the chassis there in have driven a few late model commodores and not impressed at all with the handling feels very twitchy and I feel i'm always correcting the wheel slightly I learned to drive in my uncles vl and to me it the ride is way better and tighter in late model commodores but they handle the same as that vl did. But I love ls2 &ls3 engine's would love to stuff one into something like an old rx-7 or something would love an older sports car with big late model ls in it.

Seriously!? The VF handles the same as the VL

[baboon]

Originally Posted by T.O.Wallace

I don't know where that quote came from but it isn't mine, so take it down.

Cant modify now...Misquoted the article for a joke, but wasnt that good. It wasnt you that wrote the original article, it was written by carsales so dont worry.

[Boza]

Originally Posted by johnydep

Seriously!? The VF handles the same as the VL

To me it honestly does has the same twitchy feel to the steering I feel like I'm always correcting the car.

I have driven a lot of commodores from vb-vl and honestly to me the steering is all the same even going into a nice sweeping bend they don't feel as planted as a falcon going into a corner or bend i feel like I need to yannk on the wheel a few times where as in a falcon i Just point the car into the corner and it feels way more planted and smoother.

I haven't driven a late model camaro or mustang but from what I hear the camaro handles and drives much like the commodore where as the mustang is way more planted.