Diesel Particulate Filters

mbv · 02-09-2015, 05:10 PM

Hello All,

I have a 2010 Mondeo and it is currently running in limp mode and the dealership charged me $240 to reset the thing and say all was well and then while my wife was driving home the engine malfunction warning re-appeared. She drove back and they've kindly offered to replace the dpf for a mere $4600. (Cheap - I'd like two!)

We're situated in Melbourne and if anyone knows someone that is working in this area please let us know. I'm surprised that there is not a booming cottage industry that is developing to avoid this massive rip off.

I've heard of some folks using caustic drain cleaner and water. Anyone knowing the mix and what brand is suitable - it would be great to hear from anyone on this.

Kind regards,

Mark

99AUXR · 02-09-2015, 05:39 PM

No idea sorry however I will say a few people have been caught out with mondeo DPFs in NZ and had to pay ford for replacements.

351LTD · 02-09-2015, 08:44 PM

There is a company here in WA that cleans them,do a google and see if you can find him,fraction of the cost apparently.

XR Martin · 02-09-2015, 09:05 PM

Google 'blocked dpf'

Windsor220 · 02-09-2015, 09:17 PM

You can clean them with regular water. I've done it before on a Mazda by reverse flushing it with a hose.

It would be interesting to see what the dealer has done. A lot of people dont understand how to repair DPF systems. On Mitsubishis you are able to do a manual burn for half an hour on the car so it cleans itself out. Others require you to drive it a certain way or you can simply give it a good flogging.

You also need to make sure you are using low ash engine oil too so its not contributing to clogging up the filter.

sexyxe · 03-09-2015, 08:39 AM

My mates Subaru has instructions in his manual on how to reset the DPF if it displays. Brakes, clutch, rear window demise, lights, etc etc in a combo.

That and a nice long run to get it plenty hot doesn't hurt. Something like not out of 3rd but over 80km/h rings a bell?

mik · 03-09-2015, 10:59 AM

some videos on DPF , the second one shows cleaning a truck dpf, but i think the process is still relevent.

the third one i dont know how effective it would be, im thinking it might be a hard task to get all the chemical through all the cells but i have no clue?
regarding the caustic cleaning , i dont really know, but i would be a bit wary in cleaning the non metal cells if thats what the mondy is fitted with ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMKpo74P6SE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qmW...g#t=320.861089

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=020M...4#t=202.194739

simon varley · 03-09-2015, 12:43 PM

there is a dealer process to initiate the burn if the car doesn't do it by itself, or if your driving style doesn't make it happen, but there will always come a point where the filter is clogged by the residual ash left over after the burn. I don't know how long this should be but 5 years seems short.

mik · 03-09-2015, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon varley

there is a dealer process to initiate the burn if the car doesn't do it by itself, or if your driving style doesn't make it happen, but there will always come a point where the filter is clogged by the residual ash left over after the burn. I don't know how long this should be but 5 years seems short.

Probably the vehicles use might have a lot of bearing on how bad they clog up , a car doing short runs would probably be in for cleaning or new DPF a lot more often one would think ?

mbv · 03-09-2015, 01:11 PM

Thank you for all the posts.
Five years does seem rather a short life-cycle for such a prohibitively expensive item!
My driving is 80% on freeways at 100 (maybe 105?!) for about 40 minutes at a time with a tendency to give it a boot when taking off from lights. So for the past three years it certainly hasn't been short trips with lots of stop / start as a feature.

Unless I can get some more cost effective method of fixing this dpf then my next purchase I'm going to have to re-evaluate as any cost savings on the fuel with a diesel are well and truly wiped clean by this heavy impost.

I found some folks that clean dpfs in Perth and Sydney but nothing in Melbourne yet. Still driving like grandma at the moment (limp mode) and it's quite frustrating. All those kilometres at 5.5 - 6.0 with a huge smile on my face are fading into history and the smile has been wiped off the face!

simon varley · 03-09-2015, 01:39 PM

interesting reads
http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice...e-filters.html
http://www.stdrivers.co.uk/forum/top...fter-your-dpf/

mik · 03-09-2015, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbv

Thank you for all the posts.
Five years does seem rather a short life-cycle for such a prohibitively expensive item!
My driving is 80% on freeways at 100 (maybe 105?!) for about 40 minutes at a time with a tendency to give it a boot when taking off from lights. So for the past three years it certainly hasn't been short trips with lots of stop / start as a feature.

Unless I can get some more cost effective method of fixing this dpf then my next purchase I'm going to have to re-evaluate as any cost savings on the fuel with a diesel are well and truly wiped clean by this heavy impost.

I found some folks that clean dpfs in Perth and Sydney but nothing in Melbourne yet. Still driving like grandma at the moment (limp mode) and it's quite frustrating. All those kilometres at 5.5 - 6.0 with a huge smile on my face are fading into history and the smile has been wiped off the face!

Yep it does take the wind out of your sails looking at service cost like that for sure, perhaps a low miles one from a smashed car/wreckers might be an alternative if the old one has to be replaced ?

Franco Cozzo · 03-09-2015, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbv

Hello All,

I have a 2010 Mondeo and it is currently running in limp mode and the dealership charged me $240 to reset the thing and say all was well and then while my wife was driving home the engine malfunction warning re-appeared. She drove back and they've kindly offered to replace the dpf for a mere $4600. (Cheap - I'd like two!)

We're situated in Melbourne and if anyone knows someone that is working in this area please let us know. I'm surprised that there is not a booming cottage industry that is developing to avoid this massive rip off.

I've heard of some folks using caustic drain cleaner and water. Anyone knowing the mix and what brand is suitable - it would be great to hear from anyone on this.

Kind regards,

Mark

A tuning joint might be able to remove the DPF function from the ECU and just take it out and put in a pipe to connect up the exhaust.

They turned off the EGR in my TDCI Focus when they tuned it.

Dash6 · 06-09-2015, 12:32 AM

In my limited dealings with the isuzu trucks DPF's, the possibility of eliminating it and tricking the ECU to think its still in there was unable to be completed. The isuzu ones worked on two temp sensors and two pressure sensors (one of each at either end of the DPF) no matter what we did, it still defaulted to do a burn every 100km regardless and if it didnt do a burn it went into limp mode. Instead of getting the Tech-2 scan tool from isuzu to reset the engine light and do a burn, we found the "G-Scan" unit was able to clear engine lights and complete manual burns also. The G-scan was also loaded with other trucks and a heap of passenger cars including ford and euro 5 vehicles. So perhaps finding a workshop with a g-scan to conduct a few manual burns. We did manage to clean a few blocked DPF's though, the most effective method was separating the DPF's and soaking the blocked membrane in the caustic solution from the robowash, usually repeated. Once installed, a manual burn and an oil change and was all sorted. the other way we got extra life out of a blocked DPF was to turn the membrane around and do a few manual burns. As mentioned above, low ash oil is mandatory or this blockage will continue to occur. Hopefully some of this information is of use to you. Good luck, Cheers

sprintman1 · 06-09-2015, 05:25 AM

If your service provider is not using the right kind of oil you will have problems

new2ford · 06-09-2015, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbv

Unless I can get some more cost effective method of fixing this dpf then my next purchase I'm going to have to re-evaluate as any cost savings on the fuel with a diesel are well and truly wiped clean by this heavy impost.

Modern petrol engines have become so good that the "savings" are non-existent when you throw in WOL costs. Diesel now has an uncertain future in cars, I wouldn't regard a diesel car as a good investment all things considered.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/627c6812-7...#axzz3ktwcF9Dd

sprintman1 · 06-09-2015, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new2ford

Modern petrol engines have become so good that the "savings" are non-existent when you throw in WOL costs. Diesel now has an uncertain future in cars, I wouldn't regard a diesel car as a good investment all things considered.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/627c6812-7...#axzz3ktwcF9Dd

Unless you want to tow as well.............

**Burnout** · 06-09-2015, 03:17 PM

Bar humbug. If you choose to drive a DPF equipt vehicle on short city runs the things will cost you an absolute fortune.
If on the other hand you travel decent distances then they just might be worth it.

mbv · 06-09-2015, 03:45 PM

Thank you for your thoughts. I would have considered that the driving as outlined below in my second post (and copied here) would not have been described as short city runs. The comments about the oil [sprintman1] are interesting. I don't know what sort of oil was used however all services were done by Ford. I doubt very much that they would take any responsibility in this matter.

I've found a company here in Melbourne that is willing to give another forced regeneration and also a manual clean - i.e. some form of caustic solution. Looking for the recipe as used by "Cold Aussie" so that I can have a suggestion for the blokes. Hopefully it works. Will let you all know. Cheers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burnout

Bar humbug. If you choose to drive a DPF equipt vehicle on short city runs the things will cost you an absolute fortune.
If on the other hand you travel decent distances then they just might be worth it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbv

Thank you for all the posts.
Five years does seem rather a short life-cycle for such a prohibitively expensive item!
My driving is 80% on freeways at 100 (maybe 105?!) for about 40 minutes at a time with a tendency to give it a boot when taking off from lights. So for the past three years it certainly hasn't been short trips with lots of stop / start as a feature.

Unless I can get some more cost effective method of fixing this dpf then my next purchase I'm going to have to re-evaluate as any cost savings on the fuel with a diesel are well and truly wiped clean by this heavy impost.

I found some folks that clean dpfs in Perth and Sydney but nothing in Melbourne yet. Still driving like grandma at the moment (limp mode) and it's quite frustrating. All those kilometres at 5.5 - 6.0 with a huge smile on my face are fading into history and the smile has been wiped off the face!

sprintman1 · 06-09-2015, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbv

Thank you for your thoughts. I would have considered that the driving as outlined below in my second post (and copied here) would not have been described as short city runs. The comments about the oil [sprintman1] are interesting. I don't know what sort of oil was used however all services were done by Ford. I doubt very much that they would take any responsibility in this matter.

I've found a company here in Melbourne that is willing to give another forced regeneration and also a manual clean - i.e. some form of caustic solution. Looking for the recipe as used by "Cold Aussie" so that I can have a suggestion for the blokes. Hopefully it works. Will let you all know. Cheers.

I'm interested in the result. Oil is my area of expertise and I'm seeing DPF contamination coming up more often.

mbv · 06-09-2015, 03:54 PM

This is the 'recipe' as mentioned by Cold Aussie that I previously referred to. It was on a thread entitled 'Diesel Particulate Filter problems'.

I'm curious what the mix entailed - 50/50, 25/75 or 75/25 and also what brand of caustic drain cleaner brought about this successful outcome. If anyone's had experience in this area your thoughts are welcome.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cold Aussie

Yesterday I picked up the wifes 2009 diesel focus from the 3rd service centre that couldnt fix the engine malfunction issue caused by the DPF. I took it home and put it up on my hoist. There are 2 muffler shaped boxes in the exhaust, one connected directly to the turbo. The other directly aft of the first connected by a short lentgh of flex. Both have some type of sensor at the engine end. The second has what looks like 2 vacuum lines one front one rear.
I removed the later chamber and cleaned it. Firstly I stood it on its end and filled it with water and caustic drain cleaner. I let it soak for 15 minutes then flushed it out with a hose, in the reverse direction of the exhaust flow. I repeated the process and again flushed with the hose. I then used my high pressure cleaner from both directions and stood the chamber on its end to dry.
I refitted the chamber and drove for 8 kms at 3000rpm to dry it out. The engine management warning has gone, the engine light is out and it runs better than it ever has.
My options where $6500 to replace the DPF, or 2 hours labour and $15 for some caustic.
All 4 bolts holding the chamber to the exhaust broke! No big deal I drove them out and replaced them with some 7/16 316 I had laying around.
I have also found a company that will re tune the ECU to remove the DPF and improve performance etc.
Regards
Stephen

mbv · 09-09-2015, 08:48 PM

I promised an update - so here we are.

Well I had the dpf cleaned out by a company here in Melbourne and I asked them to use caustic acid. They rang me a few hours later to indicate that is was unsuccessful, error codes were still in the system and the car was still in limp mode.They tried to get it to do a regeneration even took it for a drive to force it and no go.

It turns out they used engine degreaser and it apparently removed a significant amount of rubbish out of the unit. I indicated that I was disappointed they didn't use the caustic as we agreed and so they stated the would do it again if I brought in the caustic soda.

However as I drove away it was still in limp mode for a period of time and then all of a sudden the power came back and the turbo kicked in. I took it for a long hard drive on some lonely roads outside of Melbourne at very high speeds and / or high revs. For two or three days all was normal but I was left with the error or engine malfunction light on the dash. Was planning to get that reset however now all the warning lights have gone and it appears to have reset itself. I'll leave it for a few more days before I decide on whether to take up the offer of a second free clean - but for now all back to normal and it cost less than $300. And Ford wanted $4600?!!?

mik · 10-09-2015, 10:08 AM

Well done , and hope it lasts for you.

sexyxe · 10-09-2015, 10:30 AM

The light may be displaying as it might have a circuitry that says once turned on, needs to stay on even if the fault that trips it resets.

Or have I miss read your post and your saying that even the CEL is out too? If so, seems like you've come good!

**ebxr8240** · 10-09-2015, 10:48 AM

Longer trips .. Harder driving ?? I would add water injection .. Either through engine or exhaust . It cleans chambers, carbon big time ..

Franco Cozzo · 10-09-2015, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebxr8240

Longer trips .. Harder driving ?? I would add water injection .. Either through engine or exhaust . It cleans chambers, carbon big time ..

I've got it on my TDCI Focus but I busted the self sealing fitting in the tank with my fridge. 49/51 mix of Methanol/Distilled water and she made an extra 6KW at the wheels on the dyno

I need to get a different fitting and I'm good to get it running again.

**ebxr8240** · 10-09-2015, 11:12 AM

I have Devils own kit on my 6.5 GM V8 turbo diesel motor home. Mainly due to having no inter cooler.. I found its cleaned up engine big time . I only use it on steep hills .. Victoria pass etc .. I guess if it had particle filter it would help too... Use 20% metholated spirits as it's easier to purchase as servos ..
Ever seen an engine with blown head gasket ? The cylinder is chrome clean ...