Will BMW Follow VW in Diesel Scandal?????

csv8 · 25-09-2015, 04:17 PM

"Volkswagen’s admission of skirting U.S. emissions laws has turned the spotlight on other companies that manufacture diesel-powered vehicles.

BMW got wrapped up in the Volkswagen scandal on Thursday after Auto Bild, a German magazine, reported that the luxury automaker’s X3 crossover emits 11-times more nitrogen oxides than European law allows. According to Auto Bild, X3 emissions were tested by the International Council on Clean Transportation, which worked with West Virginia University to discover the discrepancies with Volkswagen diesels.

BMW hit back at the report. In a statement, the company said it does not “manipulate or rig” tests that evaluate a vehicle’s emissions levels. BMW also said it follows local testing requirements, adding that it will ask ICCT for details about the group’s testing method.

ICCT has targeted diesel emissions before with reports that 32 cars in Europe spanning 10 different brands emit an average of double the maximum amount of nitrogen oxides.

Following the Volkswagen news, U.S. regulators said they would expand their investigation to include diesel cars from other automakers. European officials also are looking into the matter.

Volkswagen could be facing an $18 billion fine if all 482,000 potentially affected vehicles in the U.S., including the Jetta, Passat and Audi A3, are violating emissions regulations. All of the cars were sold beginning in 2008. Meanwhile, Volkswagen has identified 11 million vehicles worldwide that also feature software designed to skirt emissions rules. The company has allocated approximately $7 billion to cover the cost of servicing those diesel cars.
More on this...

Breaking Down Volkswagen's Diesel Deception
Emissions Scandal Rocks Volkswagen, Diesel Sales Halted

CEO Martin Winterkorn resigned, and Reuters reported that Porsche chief Matthias Mueller has the support of a majority of Volkswagen’s board. A meeting is scheduled for Friday in Germany.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency revealed last week that Volkswagen’s software can detect when a vehicle is undergoing an emissions test and activate the system that cleans diesel exhaust. Once the cars return to the road, the software turns off emissions control devices.

Car website Edmunds.com has advised current owners to wait for the company to develop a fix rather than attempt to sell their Volkswagen or Audi TDI vehicles. In the meantime, customers can continue to use their vehicles because there is no safety issue.

“It is in Volkswagen’s best interest to publicly address steps to fix this mess as soon as possible before it loses its customer base for good,” added Jessica Caldwell, director of industry analysis at Edmunds."

Follow Matthew Rocco on Twitter @MatthewRocco http://www.foxbusiness.com/industrie...on-bmw-others/

mik · 25-09-2015, 05:05 PM

So if the possible fine is 18 billion for 482,000 cars, what happens if there are significantly more cars effected. ? Whatever the case, a cool 18 billion plus cost to rectify tricky software on said vehicles, plus litigations from various party's, how bad can it get, are we looking at another government motors. ?

Trump · 25-09-2015, 05:48 PM

What happens to other manufacturers will hinge on how the VAG saga plays out. If govco can get bulk coin out of them, the other mobs are screwed.

new2ford · 25-09-2015, 06:32 PM

Worth a separate thread? So far BMW is not proven to be implicated.

GASWAGON · 25-09-2015, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new2ford

Worth a separate thread? So far BMW is not proven to be implicated.

Wot he said???

whynot · 25-09-2015, 07:17 PM

I cannot find the link I was reading yesterday that discussed this … but the original testing done over 12 months ago tested two Volkswagen and a BMW. The testers originally thought their equipment was out of calibration as the two Volkswagens were failing the tests by a long way. What convinced them there was nothing wrong with their test equipment was that the BMW was running slightly better than the required emissions standard.

Before any car manufacturer (particularly any Ford fanboys) gets too high and mighty about the Volkswagen, they might be best recalling the Ford Pinto fuel tank problem and/or the GM ignition switch problem. Unlike the Volkswagen diesel issue, both of these involved customer deaths and a deliberate trade off by certain executives of lives verses profits.

[Edit found a link]

The scrubbing chemistry is also what gave away Volkswagen’s alleged cover-up. In 2013, a small non-profit group decided to compare diesel emissions from European cars, which are notoriously high, with the US versions of the same vehicles. A team led by Drew Kodjak, executive director of the International Council on Clean Transportation, worked with emissions researchers at West Virginia University to test three four-cylinder 2.0-liter diesel cars in the Los Angeles area: a Jetta, a Passat, and a BMW. Only the BMW passed.

“We felt that it would be possible to get low emissions for diesels,” Kodjak said. “You can imagine our surprise when we found two of the three vehicles had significant emissions.”

XG_Falcon · 25-09-2015, 07:33 PM

I feel like a lot of misguided anti-German feelings are being released right now.

malazn mafia · 25-09-2015, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XG_Falcon

I feel like a lot of misguided anti-German feelings are being released right now.

First world problems... not even a safety issue. Are there even any consumers would even care how much nitrogen is spewing out of their exhaust? If any did, they would probably be walking instead.

Franco Cozzo · 25-09-2015, 09:40 PM

Might explain the good power figures you get from BMW diesel engines, they're the best of the best when it comes to Euro diesel engines.

STEALTHY · 25-09-2015, 09:41 PM

Anyone who thinks other car makers arent doing the same thing are delusional.

They all do it!

mik · 25-09-2015, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

First world problems... not even a safety issue. Are there even any consumers would even care how much nitrogen is spewing out of their exhaust? If any did, they would probably be walking instead.

Thats true mate, but , on the other side of the coin , it appears they where selling the cars on a false pretense, for example , not just the emissions , but possibly economy figures? if all these cars have to go back to a proper tune , how will that effect them, who knows how it will effect them , it might not be huge , but as someone that paid good moola for the car you would still be ****ed i think.

imagine buying a GT Falcon 335 with a guaranteed 3XX at wheels and then finding out its got an illegal tune and it had to go back to 250 at the wheels and was going to use more fuel too boot , you would be fairly ropable i think .

mik · 25-09-2015, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

Anyone who thinks other car makers arent doing the same thing are delusional.

They all do it!

Sorry , but i think that is crap , some may , but i have the utmost confidence most play by the rules.

STEALTHY · 25-09-2015, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

Sorry , but i think that is crap , some may , but i have the utmost confidence most play by the rules.

Thats cute

malazn mafia · 25-09-2015, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

imagine buying a GT Falcon 335 with a guaranteed 3XX at wheels and then finding out its got an illegal tune and it had to go back to 250 at the wheels and was going to use more fuel too boot , you would be fairly ropable i think .

If I was owner of such a car, I'd go to a tuner and fork out for a good tune, with good power and economy with absolutely no regards for Euro emissions laws.

mik · 25-09-2015, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

If I was owner of such a car, I'd go to a tuner and fork out for a good tune, with good power and economy with absolutely no regards for Euro emissions laws.

same here , but we are car dudes, the average mum and dad will probably be lumped with whatever they are given.

mik · 25-09-2015, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by STEALTHY

Thats cute

I thought youd like that ;) .

kaniSS · 28-09-2015, 03:35 PM

18 billion in fines hey? Bloody hell

Trump · 28-09-2015, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaniSS

18 billion in fines hey? Bloody hell

And now add the other 10.5 million cars in the other jurisdictions around the world... the potential is there for VAG to be decimated.

Yellow_Festiva · 28-09-2015, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

And now add the other 10.5 million cars in the other jurisdictions around the world... the potential is there for VAG to be decimated.

I think they will loose much more than 10% to be honest ;-)

2011G6E · 29-09-2015, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

First world problems... not even a safety issue. Are there even any consumers would even care how much nitrogen is spewing out of their exhaust? If any did, they would probably be walking instead.

Precisely. People want power and economy...both if possible.
As you said, people couldn't give two craps about emissions...economy, yes, but emissions?...they never have. Those that feel strongly enough buy a hybrid.

Quote:

imagine buying a GT Falcon 335 with a guaranteed 3XX at wheels and then finding out its got an illegal tune and it had to go back to 250 at the wheels and was going to use more fuel too boot , you would be fairly ropable i think .

Good point...as I said before, people won't be lining up to have their VW's "fixed"...the ones I've spoken to have said they won't.

monte.b · 29-09-2015, 08:07 AM

Funny really, as the motoring writers have been pushing these wonderful vw piles of rubbish for a couple of years now ,like dont buy a ford they are **** ,buy one of these vws they are far more advanced .Just a bunch of cheaters it seems

LG17 · 29-09-2015, 11:29 AM

Audi have admitted to similar software.

vztrt · 29-09-2015, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Good point...as I said before, people won't be lining up to have their VW's "fixed"...the ones I've spoken to have said they won't.

They'll fix it if gov cancels their rego if its not done.

baboon · 29-09-2015, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LG17

Audi have admitted to similar software.

Is this breaking news? Do you have the news source?

Yellow_Festiva · 29-09-2015, 12:03 PM

I'm curious, how can a car be programmed to 'know' when it's being tested and alter it's tune?

What is the testing procedure?

Or are the cars being tested put aside and tinkered with prior to the testing people getting their hands on them?

**Beastie** · 29-09-2015, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baboon

Is this breaking news? Do you have the news source?

http://www.news.com.au/finance/busin...-1227547967650

Bossxr8 · 29-09-2015, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baboon

Is this breaking news? Do you have the news source?

All VAG products that use the EA189 engine are implicated, so that includes Audi and Skoda.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

I'm curious, how can a car be programmed to 'know' when it's being tested and alter it's tune?

It records steering wheel position (it doesn't move when strapped to a dyno), and the test parameters are known so that when the ECU detects it driving just like the test requires it knows when to switch ie. speeds, distances, throttle % etc. Also stuff like barometric pressure must be the same during all these tests so that is another factor that helps determine when to go into low emissions mode. It would not be hard for the ECU to know when the test has started, it just needs to know a few requirements have been met.

baboon · 29-09-2015, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

All VAG products that use the EA189 engine are implicated, so that includes Audi and Skoda.

Thats interesting. I was under the impression Audi would have their own engine calibration even if engine was the same. Das Awful!

chamb0 · 29-09-2015, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

First world problems... not even a safety issue. Are there even any consumers would even care how much nitrogen is spewing out of their exhaust? If any did, they would probably be walking instead.

Not even a safety issue? Nitrous oxides kills up to 23,500 people prematurely each year in the UK, aggravating cardiovascular and respiratory disease.

https://www.newscientist.com/article...-human-health/

vztrt · 29-09-2015, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chamb0

Not even a safety issue? Nitrous oxides kills up to 23,500 people prematurely each year in the UK, aggravating cardiovascular and respiratory disease.

https://www.newscientist.com/article...-human-health/

This is why they're beginning to ban diesels cars in Europe. This looks like its the pretty much the last nail in the coffin.