Why are Aussie cars inferior to their Japanese counterparts?

[OttoXR8]

I present you Nissan Fuga,

The car is a generation ahead of our FG Falcon in terms of design, technology, interior and specs

2010 Nissan Fuga 370GT TYPE S


Engine: 3,700cc
Trans: Tiptronic
Mileage: 8,000 kms
Colour: Black



One Owner Car
No Accident History
Non-Smokers Car
Air Conditioning
Power Steering
Power Windows
ABS Brakes
SRS Airbag/s
Keyless Entry
Sunroof
Power Seats
20" Alloy Wheels
Lowered Suspension
Body Kit
CD Player / Changer
Navigation
TV / Monitor
Security System

$70,620 AUD
excluding compliance

[mrghia]

looks nice. But its like comparing aussie cars with the euro cars it all come down to development funding

[Brazen]

You have got to be kidding...


Its a second-hand $70,000 private import which hasnt even been complianced!

Meanwhile you can get a BRAND NEW 50th Annivesary G6 with leather, full electrics, 18 inch alloys, full safety kit, rear wheel drive, 6 speed ZF auto, with 4.0 litre 6 cylinder engine with better fuel economy than the smaller gutless Nissan Maxima, for about $35,000 on road.

[Mongoose]

Get your flame suit ready, your going to need it. You listed things that are all available on falcons...

[Ford_The_Win]

Twice the price of a Falcon XT, but definitely NOT twice the car.

Jeez, I don't know where to begin. Abandoning this thread in 3...2...1...

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

70K for a puss box that can not even be registered without spending more $$$$ how is that better???

[SSD-85]

They shouldve called it the Nissan FUGLY.

And since we are talking $70k, Ill take a brand new FG GT over that anyday.

[OttoXR8]

Originally Posted by Brazen

You have got to be kidding...


Its a second-hand $70,000 private import which hasnt even been complianced!

Meanwhile you can get a BRAND NEW 50th Annivesary G6 with leather, full electrics, 18 inch alloys, full safety kit, rear wheel drive, 6 speed ZF auto, with 4.0 litre 6 cylinder engine with better fuel economy than the smaller gutless Nissan Maxima, for about $35,000 on road.

The gutless 3.7ltr Nissan engine you speak of produces about 240kw (if im not wrong) and has won plenty of awards, in fact more awards for the past decade than any other engine out in the world

VQ37VHR

It was the first production engine from Nissan using VVEL. It has an increased compression ratio of 11.0:1, with 3,696 cc (225.5 cu in) displacement (95.5mm bore and 86mm stroke), while redline remains at 7600RPMs. It is rated at 337 PS (248 kW; 332 hp) at 7,000rpm and 37.2 kg·m (365 N·m; 269 ft·lbf) at 5200rpm. Although the engine gains only 0.2 kg·m (2 N·m; 1 ft·lbf) peak torque over the VQ35HR and this higher torque arrives at 5200 rpm vs. 4800 in the VQ35HR, the torque curve itself is improved and flattened via VVEL variable valve timing for better throttle response and low rpm torque. The VQ37VHR engine has been touted by car magazines and reviewers as an improvement over the VQ35HR engine mostly adding much refinement and smoother engine operation, especially at high rpm where the VQ35HR engine was frequently criticized for NVH and sounding strained, harsh and loud.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by mrghia

looks nice. But its like comparing aussie cars with the euro cars it all come down to development funding

It's Nissan, so Japanese.

Simply put our cars are improving but are still far behind our overseas counterparts. Value for money isn't there and we're far too slow to change.
This industry is cut throat now, miss an opportunity to take it up with your rivals and that's it you're finished. The locals are lucky we don't get some of the products sold in other markets. It would make them look bad.

I was (am) hoping Ford can utilise the 'One Ford' mantra and bring in some of the technology that is in the Euro and US cars. I was keen to see something like this in the new Territory but sadly it was really only a cosmetic difference with the addition of the diesel. It isn't as though they would need to do heavy R&D, that is already done, just need to fit it to the vehicle.

EDIT: The G6E is a very good start but like I said, started off well but left a lot off. All they needed to do was jam pack it with gadgets (whether they're a generation old or not doesn't matter) and add full leather all round (not lots of vinyl). I really hope MK2 shows what the G6E should be.

If they cannot afford to develop a car to compete with rivals then really questions about viability need to be asked.

[Road_Warrior]

Edit: ah forget it.

[OttoXR8]

What makes you think Nissan Fuga is not a rear wheel drive?

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by OttoXR8

What makes you think Nissan Fuga is not a rear wheel drive?

What makes you think its so superior to a G6E Turbo or a VE Calais V? Most of those features you have outlined are available on both local cars and at least the Holden and the Ford can be licensed and driven here. In the absence of a motoring review from a reputable source, I am inclined to think you are trolling.

[OttoXR8]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Edit: ah forget it.

Im not a troll at all.

The point of this thread is to show the obvious, Ford Australia has fallen behind its competitors out in the world. There used to be a time when Ford Australia was the king of low/mid class RWD with a great history and model successes .. now it not only cant offer the same quality, spec, level and looks as its Japanese competitors but its a generation and almost two behind

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by OttoXR8

The gutless 3.7ltr Nissan engine you speak of produces about 240kw (if im not wrong) and has won plenty of awards, in fact more awards for the past decade than any other engine out in the world

I was referring to the Nissan Maxima which is in the Falcons price range, it has the VQ35 186kw and 326 NM of torque, the Falcon is comfortably more powerful.

At the Fugas price range the Falcon is available with a supercharged 5.0L V8.... you'l be needing the letters AMG to catch up.

[OttoXR8]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

What makes you think its so superior to a G6E Turbo or a VE Calais V? Most of those features you have outlined are available on both local cars and at least the Holden and the Ford can be licensed and driven here. In the absence of a motoring review from a reputable source, I am inclined to think you are trolling.

The features are just a basic AUCTION features. If you are interested in the cars real specs and features here they are.

Engine
Model Years Type/code Power, torque@rpm
370GT 2009- 3.7L V6 24-valve VVEL (VQ37VHR) 333 PS (245 kW) @ 7,000 rpm, 363 N·m (268 lb·ft) @ 5,200 rpm

Transmission
A driving mode selector knob has been installed as standard equipment on all models, situated below the transmission gear lever and between the heated and ventilated front seat controls, providing four selections labeled "Standard", "Sport", "Eco", and "Snow", allowing the 7-speed transmission, engine and various systems to optimize driving based on varying conditions.

Double-piston shock absorbers, developed by Kayaba Industry Company, have replaced the ones previously supplied by Hitachi.

Some of the optional interior equipment includes heated and ventilated front seats, power reclining rear seats, power ottoman for the rear passenger opposite the driver, and HDD navigation.
Safety technology has also been introduced, such as Lane Departure Prevention, which uses a small camera mounted above the rearview mirror to gauge distance from the lane markers, and will lightly tap selected brakes when necessary to help ease the car back into the correct lane. It will allow for unimpeded lane changes when the turn signal is used, and will yield control to the driver at all times.

Blind Spot Intervention System uses sensors to provide a visual warning in the side view mirror. If the car senses that movement towards the obstacle is occurring, it will provide an audible warning and will apply opposite side brakes to guide the vehicle into the correct lane.

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Brazen

You have got to be kidding...


Its a second-hand $70,000 private import which hasnt even been complianced!

Meanwhile you can get a BRAND NEW 50th Annivesary G6 with leather, full electrics, 18 inch alloys, full safety kit, rear wheel drive, 6 speed ZF auto, with 4.0 litre 6 cylinder engine with better fuel economy than the smaller gutless Nissan Maxima, for about $35,000 on road.

Agreed. At the end of the day it's a second hand grey import that is 70k. I'd rather look at German cars that at least have a bit of support by their company and doesn't look fugly.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by OttoXR8

Im not a troll at all.

The point of this thread is to show the obvious, Ford Australia has fallen behind its competitors out in the world. There used to be a time when Ford Australia was the king of low/mid class RWD with a great history and model successes .. now it not only cant offer the same quality, spec, level and looks as its Japanese competitors but its a generation and almost two behind

Ok then two things:

1) Ford Australia has an extremely limited development budget to bring features like that to a car like the Falcon simply because the market and the Falcon's market share are too small to recoup the capital outlay on such tech and the R&D required to implement same; and

2) The market place the Falcon competes in has had some fundamental changes since the heady days of the 1970's and 1980's where import tarrifs protected local products. Now there are little to no tarrifs and global vehicle makers like Nissan can bring these fancy cars here with those features because the development of them is amortised over a global market so it costs them much less per unit. Refer to point 1.

[Ben73]

That Nissan is terrible value for money. I wouldn't even pay 45K for it.

[OttoXR8]

Originally Posted by Brazen

At the Fugas price range the Falcon is available with a supercharged 5.0L V8.... you'l be needing the letters AMG to catch up.

Speaking of AMG,

Fuga, sold as Infiniti M56 in USA also comes with a 5.6L V8 version





The VK56VD is a 5.6 L (5552 cc) 32-valve, DOHC, Direct Injection Gasoline (DIG) aluminum-alloy V8 and features Nissan's advanced VVEL (Variable Valve Event & Lift System). The direct injection system provides better wide-open throttle performance and improved fuel economy and emissions performance by reducing engine knock, improving combustion stability and controlling injection more precisely. In the Infiniti M56, it is rated at 420 hp (310 kW) and 417 ft·lbf (565 N·m) of torque.

[Yellow_Festiva]

That is not in anyway remotely close to being competition to the Falcon.

It is not available in our market, has no local manufacturer support and it is an unknown model to all but a very select few.

I would drive a Falcon over that any day of the week.... sure it looks nice, but that is only a small part of car ownership.

[HUNTER8]

So have you bought it yet Otto?
Or are you just cutting and pasteing bits out of other articles for the hell of it?

[The G6ET Spot]

Maybe if you are so taken by the car, you should go to the bank and try getting a loan for one.

Good luck with that being a car that isn't even complianced and an import to boot.

some people on here lately start some ridiculous threads.

[SSD-85]

Originally Posted by OttoXR8

The VK56VD is a 5.6 L (5552 cc) 32-valve, DOHC, Direct Injection Gasoline (DIG) aluminum-alloy V8 and features Nissan's advanced VVEL (Variable Valve Event & Lift System). The direct injection system provides better wide-open throttle performance and improved fuel economy and emissions performance by reducing engine knock, improving combustion stability and controlling injection more precisely. In the Infiniti M56, it is rated at 420 hp (310 kW) and 417 ft·lbf (565 N·m) of torque.

That sounds very similiar to a certain Ford V8. Only it does it at .6L less of displacement....

[Eaglexr]

At $70,620. I would much rather the locally manufactured FG XR8.
A new FG Falcon XR8 will cost $45,490. And the power figures are cirtainly better than the Nissan Fuga, the XR8 now runs a 5.4-litre DOHC Boss V8 that delivers 290kW at 5750rpm and 520Nm of torque at 4750rpm, mated to a new six-speed manual or recalibrated ZF six-speed automatic transmission.
For an extra $5,000. You can have the luxury pack, which consists of: 19-inch alloys, leather trim, dual-zone climate-control, Premium audio, sports steering wheel and interior highlights. In addition to the already impressive list of standard features.
This one is a no-brainer.

[SumoDog68]

That looks like a Maserati :-)

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Eaglexr

At $70,620. I would much rather the locally manufactured FG XR8.
A new FG Falcon XR8 will cost $45,490. And the power figures are cirtainly better than the Nissan Fuga, the XR8 now runs a 5.4-litre DOHC Boss V8 that delivers 290kW at 5750rpm and 520Nm of torque at 4750rpm, mated to a new six-speed manual or recalibrated ZF six-speed automatic transmission.
For an extra $5,000. You can have the luxury pack, which consists of: 19-inch alloys, leather trim, dual-zone climate-control, Premium audio, sports steering wheel and interior highlights. In addition to the already impressive list of standard features.
This one is a no-brainer.

Well, no, because the XR8 isnt being made anymore. Hasnt for a little while now.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Ok then two things:

1) Ford Australia has an extremely limited development budget to bring features like that to a car like the Falcon simply because the market and the Falcon's market share are too small to recoup the capital outlay on such tech and the R&D required to implement same; and

2) The market place the Falcon competes in has had some fundamental changes since the heady days of the 1970's and 1980's where import tarrifs protected local products. Now there are little to no tarrifs and global vehicle makers like Nissan can bring these fancy cars here with those features because the development of them is amortised over a global market so it costs them much less per unit. Refer to point 1.

Which is all correct and to say Ford US doomed the Falcon the minute the Button plan was announced and unlike Holden, they didn't look the slightest bit interested in looking for genuine export opportunities and giving Ford Australia the money to properly develop the car and just as importantly support it when things went wrong and a recall or fix was needed. Because blind Freddy could see that without engineering to move the steering wheel over to the other side, export markets and the cash flow to keep Falcon current and relevant, by exports, platform sharing etc it was all just a matter of time before the Aussie Falcon went belly up.

Somehow I think there are a lot of US Ford managers and UAW workers quite pleased with their outcome. They killed a car that would have made them look bad, by first making its existence irrelevant to the world that did not know about it and then starved it of funds and let a badly managed local division screw up the cars reputation, until it lost relevance with its own home market.

Next they will launch the new Taurus and wonder why no one buys it, just like the old one. It will become the Nissan Maxima of the Ford Australia range. A few will be fans of it and the rest will move on to another brand.

Falcon. One of the great screw-ups and lost opportunities in Fords Global history and that Nissan just shows it. Falcon with the right support could have competed on a global stage with that car and looked good doing it.

Instead its a car with flashes of brilliance, stuck in a 1990's technology rut and starved of funds and vision, overseen by an outdated management culture that can't change and doesn't see a reason to, despite one PR and sales disaster after another.

Ok end rant!

I like Falcon and will buy one more, but realistically Falcon and Ford have lost the Australian market. They are rapidly going to become also rans to the Koreans.

Dan

[SteveJH]

Otto, what does the V8 one retail at? If its at BMW or Audi money I think i'd take the Euro.

And at the 70,000 for that car I think i'd take an FG GT or F6. Its got everything that car does except keyless entry (if its talking about key in pocket) and sunroof. Plus its much more powerful, supports Australian Industry and its a new car that depending on if they've already been paid will cost you 10% GST, Lux Car tax plus however much it costs for compliance.

Seeing a trend? This car is not a falcon or commodore competitor, its a BMW 5 series, Audi A6 or MB E-class competitor.

[ExAreSix]

Wait a minute guys. Just because a car isn't offered to a certain market, doesn't make it a bad car. Let's be honest, that argument is null and void.

If I was in the states, and was comparing a Taurus to a Falcon...

[Eaturbo]

Yeah its a bit dear, but hell it has some features. Take a look at the size of the brakes. I actually like the look of it. Its a fresh look compared too our Falcons and commodores which tend too stick with the same conservative styling. 20 inch wheels, and a bloody ottoman.