The Clown Factory

Bossxr8 · 06-09-2008, 01:54 PM

With the recently announced reduction in production numbers and the 350 job cuts that come with it, plus the huge number of down days over the next few months, I want to know when the big salary upper management, product planners and sales and marketing people are going to take responsibility for their failures. They have done an absolutely pathetic job of promoting the new Falcon, the sales figures don't lie, especially wen you compare them to VE sales. The FG is the best locally made sedan on sale, yet it is being slaughtered by an inferior product that uses more fuel to boot. The solution is always to cut the throats of the workers on the floor who have done nothing wrong, when the clowns in charge of the big decisions continue to make great wads of cash for screwing the company and pushing it to the brink. When are these people going to held accountable. If Ford are going to succeed into the future they need to start cleaning out the dead wood and make these clowns accountable for their actions. While the workers are sent home on half pay I bet that these people do not lose a cent of pay when they are the ones to blame for the problems.

They can keep blaming fuel prices and economic conditions for the lack of sales till they are blue in the face, but when you are nearly outsold 2 to 1 by your inferior competitor then you know they have stuffed up. Letting the Territory wither and die by not spending a cent on any upgrades for it is another one of their massive mistakes. Do they enjoy sitting back and watching the company slowly die or is it a case of not caring. The company will never succeed with these people in charge, its time for change.

Detroit can also be held accountable for continuously denying the Falcon and Territory an export market. They keep saying we have a plan for exports for the Focus, but that will do nothing for the Falcon/Territory because sales will soon get to a point where they will no longer be able to justify any investment in the product and it will slowly wither and die just like the Fairlane. Do Detroit even care if that happens? Surely a profitable Ford Australia is a huge benefit for them. If they continue to deny them an export market I can't see how the market will continue to provide enough sales for them to continue with the way things are going.

Whats the solution?

Rant over.

JC · 06-09-2008, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Whats the solution?

Rant over.

While I agree to some extent, the answer to your question is relativley simple if (when) Ford Australia stops manufacturing - buy a focus, or buy a Holden. I know I'd rather a Holden than a Camry/Aurion.

JMO · 06-09-2008, 03:11 PM

It's been said a million times, but I think marketing really is the major issue here. A few of my friends who have no bias towards any manufacturer had no idea about the new falcon, let alone the latest 5-star ANCAP rating ads. I mentioned the 99cent deal from Holden, which was only televised recently (2-3 days) and they all knew what I was talking about.

It's one thing for us enthusiasts to know about the falcon, we're on here most days and know the ins and outs. What needs to be done is reach the average joe, the people who have no brand loyalty and will by a car because it *is* better through informative ad campaigns. When Holden released the VE they did the big half hour 'Billion Dollar Baby' TV show. People knew it was coming out and that it was something new/special. The FG in my eyes is the best 'Australian' car this country has ever produced, and no one, bar the enthusiast or select few seem to care...

While fuel is a reason for poor sales, I don't think that it is the be all and end all. If it was such a big issue, people wouldn't be driving around in 4WD with no intention of taking it off road. It is more to do with the prestige of a manufacturer ie BMW, VW etc. etc. or how 'cool' a car is perceived (This is where females and small cars come into the picture). the falcon is always looked on as the 'parents' or 'grandparents' car. XR, GT, F6 etc excluded :P Ford needs to seriously work on its brand image.

Windsor220 · 06-09-2008, 03:18 PM

Has anyone tried emailing Ford directly and telling them to lift their game? Maybe if we all do it they might take note.

Bossxr8 · 06-09-2008, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMO

While fuel is a reason for poor sales, I don't think that it is the be all and end all. If it was such a big issue, people wouldn't be driving around in 4WD with no intention of taking it off road.

Exactly my point, SUV sales have been increasing for years, and they mostly use more fuel than large cars, but Ford keep using the same excuses for lack of sales ie. high fuel prices. If that was the case then guzzling large SUV's sales would have dropped off massively, but they haven't. Everytime the execs make a bad decision or fail in their marketing campaigns, its always the high fuel prices excuse, or high interest rates. When will they take responsibility for their failings as a company?

XR6_190 · 06-09-2008, 05:12 PM

This isn't entirely true, yes SUV's do use more fuel than a large 6 cylinder sedan, but what you have to understand is that a lot of people see an SUV as a much more practical option to a sedan, they have a lot more space, are perceived as being a lot safer for the occupants, and are seen as being THE large car of the early 21st century, especially when you consider any camping or towing necessities.

So while yes, SUVs do generally drink more than most Falcodores, more and more people who need a large car, are buying SUV's instead of large sedans /wagons.

**Silver Ghia** · 06-09-2008, 06:06 PM

Territory is an SUV isnt it? Ford should be dominating with this model then.

I think its more that Ford should look more at fixing the small details in their products that let them down. There's too many negative articles in the press and even this forum about the niggly rust problems, dealer problems etc, which put people off buying the Ford product.

My Ghia is only an excellent car because of the little things I've done to fix the niggly potential problems, as well as a good local dealer that helped during the warranty period to make it that way. I think it also helped being a car nut to discuss the problems with the dealer. A person who is a non-engineering, non-car type probably would have been cheesed off with the car by now. The car really shouldn't have had these niggles.

Ford has a great looking car in the FG, also the Terri, it just needs to attend more to any detail items to make the products a more attractive proposition for car buyers in general.

MONSOON · 06-09-2008, 06:23 PM

The marketing could be better, they are selling cars not hand creme after all, but I think the dealership experience is also a major contributor to poor sales, for some reasons the falcon, which most of us on here value greatly, has a poor image amongst the general population, now how can this be turned around?

**CAT600** · 06-09-2008, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Detroit can also be held accountable for continuously denying the Falcon and Territory an export market.

Here's the main problem.

Ford needed to increase their sales from the B-series days, not decrease it. In a market with a shrinking large car segment, the only alternative for Ford was to design the car with LHD in mind and export to large population, large car markets (aka: USA and Middle east). Even knowing how powerful the UAW is, surely, Dearborn could see that there is a market in the US for a car like FG, and found a way to either import cars, or produce them over there.

The Falcon and Territory is quite likely to die a withering death, before being replaced with a rebadged Crown Vic.

Daniel

BA GT-HO · 06-09-2008, 07:02 PM

You know your going well when a Mondeo drives past and a member of the family who likes Fords asks you "Is that a new Falcon?"

Ford are too busy showing you pictures of fingers running across the screen!

DanielXR8 · 06-09-2008, 07:59 PM

The Ford Motor Company and its dealers have entrenched corporate and cultural practices that make them increasingly uncompetitive. If you are an employee on the lower rungs BossXR8, you either put up with it until they close the plant or make tracks for a better job and watch from the sidelines.

Don't think its going to change. The time for that was around 1990.

Dan

Whitey-AMG · 06-09-2008, 08:03 PM

Hybrid Falcon for 2010.........end of story.

JPFS1 · 06-09-2008, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESP

Hybrid Falcon for 2010.........end of story.

Ford Falcon + Territory = ?? sales

VE commodore + VE wagon = ?? sales

This is how sales should be looked at as Territory certainly takes sales away from Falcon, and VE wagon away from commodore.

Then there is the fleet deals that Holden are prepared to come to the table with, while ford do not. That's how Holden get their VE's out the door.

Back to your suggestion ESP... there will be no hybrid in 2010.

However there will be a decent V6 and some other interesting power train combo's, then an even better V6 a little while after.

The whole problem for Ford AUS is very simple... they are seen as not being Australian, compared to Holden. This will be very hard to change.

On product development... there was simply not enough money or resources to get an almost all new Falcon out, an updated Territory and T6 all co-developed at the same time. That's the facts and that's not Ford Australia's fault.

A bunch of fresh funding is in, so Territory will be freshened and new programs are being worked on, that's all Ford AUS can do.

AMT · 06-09-2008, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

Ford Falcon + Territory = ?? sales

VE commodore + VE wagon = ?? sales

This is how sales should be looked at as Territory certainly takes sales away from Falcon, and VE wagon away from commodore.

Then there is the fleet deals that Holden are prepared to come to the table with, while ford do not. That's how Holden get their VE's out the door.

Back to your suggestion ESP... there will be no hybrid in 2010.

However there will be a decent V6 and some other interesting power train combo's, then an even better V6 a little while after.

The whole problem for Ford AUS is very simple... they are seen as not being Australian, compared to Holden. This will be very hard to change.

On product development... there was simply not enough money or resources to get an almost all new Falcon out, an updated Territory and T6 all co-developed at the same time. That's the facts and that's not Ford Australia's fault.

A bunch of fresh funding is in, so Territory will be freshened and new programs are being worked on, that's all Ford AUS can do.

Decent V6.... from what some at ford say compared to the straight 6 the V6 is a piece of junk and is still not able to be fitted to the falcon thus far...

JPFS1 · 06-09-2008, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMT

Decent V6.... from what some at ford say compared to the straight 6 the V6 is a piece of junk and is still not able to be fitted to the falcon thus far...

Just wait til they release it before suggesting it's a piece of junk. Fairly premature of them to be swinging the axe, considering there's no drivable mules here yet, so don't know how that can say that.

AMT · 06-09-2008, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

Just wait til they release it before suggesting it's a piece of junk. Fairly premature of them to be swinging the axe, considering there's no drivable mules here yet, so don't know how that can say that.

Compare the two and yes its a junker, ford U.S are plainly saving there own butts and jobs by making ford engines globel at the expence of us Ford workers and there family's . The I6 motor has more power and a much better torque curve than the V6, if BMW and Mercedes just to name two can still use and sell powerfull and fuel efficient cars with straight 6's why carn't Ford...

Smoke Pursuit · 06-09-2008, 10:02 PM

I can't see how marketing is really where the issue lies, when Private sales are such a small percentage of the overall picture..

Theres something much deeper wrong with Ford, I don't know whats happened but really the BA / BF should have outsold VY / VZ, i think because Ford had such massive issues supplying back in the early days, that people got ****ed off and walked away.. Not to mention the ****poor dealer structure we have now...

Theres no reason why the new car can't be a few hundred cars behind holden, i dont think we will ever outdo them in the sales race, they just have too much money to throw at discounting and offering big fleet buyers anything they want!

atec77 · 06-09-2008, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC

While I agree to some extent, the answer to your question is relativley simple if (when) Ford Australia stops manufacturing - buy a focus, or buy a Holden. I know I'd rather a Holden than a Camry/Aurion.

The solution is to sort out the disgusting dealer experience and supply cars that people want , we needed a wagen just after xmas , Ford tried to force the current terry and frankly it simply would not fit the profile so we ended up with a v8 pushrod Holden on gas with auto ( my first in 20 years) , about to buy a 2nd but ford simply don't have anything suitable , I am sure there are many who feel the same about push rod motors and the I6 being a contender in the right body . The dealer experience is a little better than the local ford dealer and we are currently using a large external supply house for service .... with book stamp it's all about supply and demand , sell me what I want or I go else where.

Falc'man · 06-09-2008, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

Ford Falcon + Territory = ?? sales

VE commodore + VE wagon = ?? sales

This is how sales should be looked at as Territory certainly takes sales away from Falcon, and VE wagon away from commodore.

Then there is the fleet deals that Holden are prepared to come to the table with, while ford do not. That's how Holden get their VE's out the door.

Back to your suggestion ESP... there will be no hybrid in 2010.

However there will be a decent V6 and some other interesting power train combo's, then an even better V6 a little while after.

The whole problem for Ford AUS is very simple... they are seen as not being Australian, compared to Holden. This will be very hard to change.

On product development... there was simply not enough money or resources to get an almost all new Falcon out, an updated Territory and T6 all co-developed at the same time. That's the facts and that's not Ford Australia's fault.

A bunch of fresh funding is in, so Territory will be freshened and new programs are being worked on, that's all Ford AUS can do.

Hi Chris. I like your avatar

:

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMT

Compare the two and yes its a junker, ford U.S are plainly saving there own butts and jobs by making ford engines globel at the expence of us Ford workers and there family's . The I6 motor has more power and a much better torque curve than the V6, if BMW and Mercedes just to name two can still use and sell powerfull and fuel efficient cars with straight 6's why carn't Ford...

The two have been compared and the I6 got hammered. As much as I love it (the I6), and as much as I feel for the workers, it had to be done. Merc have V6's, it's been that way for a long time now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

I can't see how marketing is really where the issue lies, when Private sales are such a small percentage of the overall picture..

Theres something much deeper wrong with Ford, I don't know whats happened but really the BA / BF should have outsold VY / VZ, i think because Ford had such massive issues supplying back in the early days, that people got ****ed off and walked away.. Not to mention the ****poor dealer structure we have now...

Theres no reason why the new car can't be a few hundred cars behind holden, i dont think we will ever outdo them in the sales race, they just have too much money to throw at discounting and offering big fleet buyers anything they want!

Brent, that is something we always overlook, the fact that Ford suffers most from a) lack of fleets, I know in your neck of the woods (QLD) Toyota have the government fleet market completely tied up, with zero sales going to anyone else. When other states follow suit Ford will be in big trouble.

And b) as you say, Ford haven't appealed to the private sector like alot of the imports. Does anybody have the breakup for private vs fleet sales?

**ebxr8240** · 06-09-2008, 10:30 PM

I know the Co I work for use their utes, station wagons etc near there weight limit.. BUT WHY oh WHY don't they fit better rear shackle bushes and springs to these vehicles!! With in 6 month's they chew out !! Yes most the weight is over the rear axles but better bushes are NOT big $$ for them!!
They DON'T go out of there way to help.. What they don't realise is their product perception suffers..

Smoke Pursuit · 06-09-2008, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Hi Chris. I like your avatar

:

The two have been compared and the I6 got hammered. As much as I love it (the I6), and as much as I feel for the workers, it had to be done. Merc have V6's, it's been that way for a long time now.

Brent, that is something we always overlook, the fact that Ford suffers most from a) lack of fleets, I know in your neck of the woods (QLD) Toyota have the government fleet market completely tied up, with zero sales going to anyone else. When other states follow suit Ford will be in big trouble.

And b) as you say, Ford haven't appealed to the private sector like alot of the imports. Does anybody have the breakup for private vs fleet sales?

Yes most Q Fleet vehicles are either Korean or Toyota now, only a small percentage are Fords or Holdens (RoadTek use Ford still).

Even our Premier drives a 300c Diesel, which I personally think is a disgrace.. Government cars should be restricted to Australian Built, support those who support us I say. Its pretty bad when you see Government Reps driving Hyundais and Kias!

If the Government were serious about Aussie manufacturing, instead of giving manufactures stupid grants that mean jack to the end user, how about we remove luxury car tax on local product??

The next issue is the Commodore Sportswagon, ive had a customer chasing an Omega and our supplier has givin us a delivery somewhere around the start of November.. It seems they are in great demand from a fleet perspective, even tho Ford said the BFIII wagon would be cheaper and would surfice, Fleet companies are going for the VE because A)Its a newer car with better perceived resale, B) they can buy different models for different employee levels / groups C) it has more options e.g. side curtain airbags, reverse sensors (which ford still do not offer a factory option on wagon).

cool65 · 07-09-2008, 12:07 AM

[QUOTE=JMO]It's been said a million times, but I think marketing really is the major issue here.

Ambush marketing at the Olympics
Mitsubishi is Australian Sponsor of Olympic team, and Ford was a Channel 7 sponsor but nearly all ad breaks had the new sportswagon on it (again pushing the "family" message)

Wretched · 07-09-2008, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMT

Compare the two and yes its a junker, ford U.S are plainly saving there own butts and jobs by making ford engines globel at the expence of us Ford workers and there family's . The I6 motor has more power and a much better torque curve than the V6, if BMW and Mercedes just to name two can still use and sell powerfull and fuel efficient cars with straight 6's why carn't Ford...

You obviously have tested both side by side?
The I6 while good for what it is, just simply isn't versatile for the market anymore. Ford US made the right decision, anyone with an open mind for the future can see this. A global motor = better development, better potential, lower costs and even better aftermarket. Merc only have V6's, BMW have the Inline 6, it is their global motor fit for use in any vehicle. The 4.0 I6 from ford simply is too large and outdated in terms of tech to be used in a wide range of non falcon vehicles.

Yes it is unfortunate that people will lose their jobs but that is the cost of the global market and progress. Sacrifice a few to secure a better future for more.

I for one am looking forward to the new V6, not that I would purchase a Falcon but am keen to see it's application.

Bossxr8 · 07-09-2008, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Theres something much deeper wrong with Ford, I don't know whats happened but really the BA / BF should have outsold VY / VZ, i think because Ford had such massive issues supplying back in the early days, that people got ****ed off and walked away.. Not to mention the ****poor dealer structure we have now...

This I agree with, people don't even consider Ford anymore. Is it their perception as gas guzzlers, the poor dealerships and servicing or the way they treat you like a leper if you have a warranty issue?

Tom Gorman has a lot to answer for, they company has gone so downhill since Geoff left. I reckon if he was still in charge Ford would be in a much better position. He was a gun President.

If you ask your average joe in the street which cars use the most fuel I bet you 75% of them say Ford, and probably 95% of the population think the Falcon uses more fuel than the Commodore. Its these perception issues Ford need to change.

Bossxr8 · 07-09-2008, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESP

Hybrid Falcon for 2010.........end of story.

Its already been ruled out by Ford.

Whitey-AMG · 07-09-2008, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

Back to your suggestion ESP... there will be no hybrid in 2010.

If that's the unfortunate attitude at FORD........then we'll all be back on here in a couple of years time bitching about why the sales figures for Falcon and Territory are so abysmal........and the way things are panning out, there definitely will not be a Falcon platform as we know it in 10 years time.

Most of the Mr and Mrs Joe General public will be enticed into Toyota and Honda Hybrids for obvious reasons, and FORD will still be trying to sell us outdated, oversized, fuel guzzling behemoths thinking that we will all support them based on historical patriotic emotions...........and might i add..........to add insult to injury.........they'll probably be made in the Phillipines.

mr smith · 07-09-2008, 07:03 PM

Very good question. I agree that the time has come for an upper management clean out.
How are they able to keep their jobs?
The only reason I can come up with is that in the eyes of the parent US company they are doing a good job and that cutting jobs and producing cars that dont sell is OK.

A friend who works for Ford told me that in their department even the food vending machines have been taken away to save money. He went on to say that upper management were still supplied two cars ( yes two ) and most were GT's, F6X's etc, why aren't they in XT's?
Lots of fat cats still lapping up the cream.

banarcus · 07-09-2008, 08:20 PM

Fat cats and cake eaters. Doesn't matter where you work, you can find them everywhere.

Bossxr8 · 08-09-2008, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr smith

Very good question. I agree that the time has come for an upper management clean out.
How are they able to keep their jobs?
The only reason I can come up with is that in the eyes of the parent US company they are doing a good job and that cutting jobs and producing cars that dont sell is OK.

A friend who works for Ford told me that in their department even the food vending machines have been taken away to save money. He went on to say that upper management were still supplied two cars ( yes two ) and most were GT's, F6X's etc, why aren't they in XT's?
Lots of fat cats still lapping up the cream.

The place is being stripped bit by bit, there are sections shutting down and workers being made redundant every couple of months. Its like they will keep stripping it down to nothing for when the time comes to close. Any area they can remove and outsource is happening. Its a real worry, at least I know i've only got 2 years left, its not good for the people who don't know what their future holds.

Wally · 08-09-2008, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Torxteer

Has anyone tried emailing Ford directly and telling them to lift their game? Maybe if we all do it they might take note.

I think you'll find Ford have repositioned the Falcon to grab dad's army and the minor executive family man. They just fade into the traffic, whereas the VE stands out with it's bizzaro lines and that attention appeals to young blokes..