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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#1 | ||
BUILT FORD TUFF
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mackay QLD
Posts: 1,919
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In the lastest wheels, Tom Gormon was interviewed and told wheels if it wasn't for the Australian Governments $100 Million injection of cash it was more than likely there would be no Orion (new Falcon). The best senario was that they would have done a major revamp of the BA/BF series as from AU to BA. The worst case was just to wind down the operations and stop production all together. Tom also said that this was a realitity and was looking more like the case as the business decision to build a new falcon did not add up. It wasn't until we had the government grant that Orion was given the full go ahead by Ford US. There was also the surgestion that the V8 was not a long term prospect and that it would be here for the next 2 or 3 years but beyond that was not a certainty due to the Boss v8's high weight low output compared to the Turbo 6 and lack of compeditiveness against the Holden /HSV engine, for the V8 to stay viable it would have to be another Engine more likely to be the Hurricane 6.2L engine.
Boy we came close to the end of an Era gentlemen, looks like the Old Government deserves a pat on the back for this one.
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#2 | ||
eskyman
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: adelaide
Posts: 874
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wow. that would of been devastating. one of the few times that i will thank the government
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#3 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Mt Waverley, Victoria
Posts: 358
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I guess we won't see much as the way of a good v8 in orion then?
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#4 | ||
Focus on my Focus
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 820
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That would have been bad for the industry. Definitely a good move by the government on that one.
Off topic but is the Boss really considered heavy for its class?
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#5 | |||
BUILT FORD TUFF
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mackay QLD
Posts: 1,919
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Quote:
I dont know but with Iron Block and massive heads its got to be near 25% heavier than the Holden Motor. Holden use to say its V8 was lighter than our BA 6
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#6 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Gren A Waverrey
Posts: 2,371
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If Ford Australia closed its doors, it really would be a sad day for Australian motoring. Probably the worst day ever actually.
The Falcon is a unique car and has been for almost 35 years. Not even Holden can say that. Forget all that crap about beer, vegemite and Holden cars. Sure, the name "Holden" may be Australian, but their flagship product has long been European based. The Falcon. The REAL Aussie Icon. And long live the King! |
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#7 | ||||
Bad Music and Litre Bikes
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Westmeadows
Posts: 2,446
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Quote:
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XY Wagon - NAKED! Quote:
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#8 | ||
AU II XR8
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: melbourne
Posts: 978
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so what price they gonna slap on the new falcon? if it means keeping ford australia, then they can slap any price they want on it.
good move by government though. |
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#9 | ||
BUILT FORD TUFF
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mackay QLD
Posts: 1,919
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just goes to show what goes on behind closed doors
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#10 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,861
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I would expect this whole thing probably happened MANY years ago , late 90's early 2000's as Orion would have been in the early stages of devlopment then.
James |
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#11 | ||
I still have both eyes
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: NZ
Posts: 387
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Good to see your tax dollars at work, proping up uncompetitive businesses. Would be a lot easier if people just bought the Fords themselves and subsidised Ford directly, rather than the governement taking $300 million, absorbing $200 million in burecracy and subsidising a private business with the other $100 million. If they had left the $300 million in your pockets you probably would have bought more cars and there would have been no need to pull Ford out of the crapper.
Also remember Ford will have a very lean next 18 months, the BF2 will not increase their market share, at best it will hold it, but more than likely (given Toyotas entry) they will lose market share. Also a lot of the current sales are to fleets at large dicounts and low margins, not good for the bottom line. Hope people are prepared to put their hands in their pockets again cause Ford may need it (here mister tax man is $10 bucks could you squander $7 of it and give $3 to Ford Aus). |
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#12 | ||
Now XR8TickfordBoy
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Narre Warren, S.E Melbourne
Posts: 463
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well, lets hope the orion doesnt turn out to be the same situation as when the AU came out! There gonna have to pull out something special or that could be the end!!!
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#13 | ||
Victory is Mine
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 7th Circle of Hell
Posts: 179
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[QUOTE=BadMac]Also a lot of the current sales are to fleets at large dicounts and low margins,QUOTE]
Small margins have nothing to do with the manufacturer as they sell the product to the dealer at a pre-determined figure. The margin comes in at a dealer-customer level. So no matter what, the FoMoCo gets their money regardless. ![]()
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#14 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: QLD - Townsville
Posts: 1,772
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also if ford started producing foci (focuses) locally then maybe theyd get more sales, i cant count the number of people i know who have ordered one but bought a swift/golf/polo/korean made junk 2/3/4/5 door death box. i honestly could never see Ford going bust, but if they did I have one rare-ish car! go the Appreciation.
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My Cars: 2002 Ford Falcon AU S3 SR 2006 BF MKI Falcon XR6 2008 Mazda BT50 SDX 2004 BA XR8 ute 2006 AUDI A4 B7 2013 FG II XR6 Ute 2006 Ford Territory TX 2003 Ford Falcon XR8 2009 Territory Turbo Ghia Current: 2012 Audi A4 B8 2.0T Quattro |
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#15 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canberra Region
Posts: 8,949
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Unless Ford gets their act togther in regards to exports, I can predict them ending up like Mitsubishi.
I imagine the investment Holden and Toyota put in the the VE and Aurion/Camry was because of the large exports they now have. Ford has nothing close, and they've missed a great opportunity. Aurion will make a big dent in Falcon sales, unlike the half assed effort of the Avalon. I predict sub 3000/month sales for BF by early/mid next year.
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#16 | |||
Miami Pilot
![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ACT
Posts: 21,701
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The government has propped up and subsidised lots of industries over the years, Ford is just one car manufacturer they have helped. At various stages, they have also assisted Holden and Toyota. And generally it's not so much the government giving money to the industry, but reducing the taxes required to be paid by the manufacturer/industry etc. Except Farmers, who get between 300,000 and 500,000 per property because of the drought - I feel sorrier for them than a large car manufacturer!.
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#17 | |||
BUILT FORD TUFF
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mackay QLD
Posts: 1,919
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[QUOTE=PDIDDY]
Quote:
$200 000 bill after an audit from dodgy claims. So no Ford dont get the same margin, most of the cars are fleet and with that way less margin
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#18 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,443
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Quote:
Maybe it is appropriate that some of the squillions we pay in GST, Stamp duty and Luxury Tax goes back into propping up (your term) an Industry which employs and trains thousands of skilled manufacturing workers, engineers, designers, tradesmen, machinists, metal workers, die setters, virtually pick a job description and add to list - in equality and diversity friendly employment. Perhaps it is time for the OZ auto industry to be reckonised for the world class operations that they are. A car itself is the ultimate embodiment of value adding. I reckon we should be using our resources here rather than shipping them to China and India to turn into steel, aluminium, plastic, etc. We should be keeping our skills and knowledge here to, using it for our advantage. Incorporating and utilising the International experience that the OZ auto companies have always offered. On your second point, Ford and Holden are already trying to reduce the fleet dependency. This is to some extent margin based, but probably has more to do with supply and demand issues in the used market. The aim being to keep lifting the resale values and therefore making the cars cheaper to own and operate from new. Depreciation being the biggest and most hidden cost factor. Until you trade in that is. Simple free market economics: More supply than demand equals buyer gets cheaper, seller gets less or can't sell. Supply equals demand seller and buyer gets fair price. |
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#19 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: WA
Posts: 1,134
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.. Tom Gormon was interviewed and told wheels if it wasn't for the Australian Governments $100 Million injection of cash it was more than likely there would be no Orion (new Falcon). The best senario was that they would have done a major revamp of the BA/BF series as from AU to BA. The worst case was just to wind down the operations and stop production all together.
Sorry Tom I don't believe that for a minute and its nothing more than a play up to the Govt so it will keep providing a nice small donation, otherwise we close shop. Yeah right, $100m is a pittance in the overall scheme of things for a car manufacturer and would not have meant a stupid decision to stay with an old model was possible. He's saying Ford was going to produce a revamped BF for many years to come versus Holden, Toyota new models etc or at worst close shop altogether. Give me a break. There was also the suggestion that the V8 was not a long term prospect ...........................due to the Boss v8's high weight More BS as the US Ford GT uses a 5.4 with an all alloy block so get out the parts catolog Tom !!!. SVO Catalog p/n #M-6010-GT and $US2795 for the public so a mass order from Ford Oz would be a pittance. Put an all alloy 5.4 with a few more goodies in the Orion and look out HSV. |
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#20 | |||
Grunt Files
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Rockhampton QLD
Posts: 466
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Quote:
in that article they also stated that they dont want to stop production of v8 falcons and that it was a mistake when they stoped making them in the late 80's early 90's. it also says that shutting down ford was just a option and that they were going to build the the orion and continue on and it says that they didnt have approval when that dissision was made. "we wern't going to pack up tomorrow and go away" was another quote from gorman. I dont think that ford was as close to shutdown as the mag first makes out they just got some government assistance and there aint anything wrong with that just ask the ceo of holden who ever that mite be. |
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#21 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,443
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Quote:
I'd rather the car companies get the money than some lezo art performance theatre troupe etc. calling itself culture and not employing any regular people like car makers do. Where does this tax money ripped out of your pocket come from? Sales taxes GST Stamp duty on your new car and tarriffs and payroll taxes. Car workers and suppliers wages too. In saying that though, I think the Government should still remove sales tax charges for Safety Equipment such as DSC, ABS, Cruise, Reversing cameras, sensors, side airbags, all those things which make cars safer than they have ever been. Things that should be on every new car sold not just the Luxury spec. This should extend to replacement tyres, brake pads, roadworthies and so on. Money talks, real safety and car improvement walks. |
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#22 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 446
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#23 | ||
7,753
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Tasmania..... Moderator: Tas FPV club
Posts: 5,128
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Certainly explains a lot of recent behaviour. Could be looking at the last Falcon.
For Badmac http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/s...5-2682,00.html
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#24 | |||
Victory is Mine
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 7th Circle of Hell
Posts: 179
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Quote:
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#25 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 703
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Quote:
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#26 | |||
BUILT FORD TUFF
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Mackay QLD
Posts: 1,919
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Quote:
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#27 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,443
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Quote:
US unions blocked us exporting onto their home ground but they seem to be copping a bigger flogging now than ever so may US is not totally out of the question. Will not be exporting till Orion though as they are being openly engineered for LHD. |
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#28 | |||
Victory is Mine
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: 7th Circle of Hell
Posts: 179
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Quote:
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#29 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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#30 | ||
Smile
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Merrylands Sydney
Posts: 8,541
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Ford problem is that they need more good friendly people like Ratt behind the counter.
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