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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#1 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,138
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I wanted to open this therad to discuss any potential, small-scale or otherwise Australian startup opportunities.
It's no secret that our market is very hostile to a potential local start-up; given we don't have the tariff protection, and as of last year, subsidies of foreign countries. Alot of the suppliers who are now scrambling for survival have changed their business models, and started pursuing overseas business, namely Futuris supplying seatbacks to Tesla and PWR supplying radiators to Porsche, for the extremely advanced 918 Spyder. That is evidence of how adverse conditions have actually brought out the most innovative side of the Australian automotive world, and it demonstrates we have some of the most clever and passionate automotive thinkers in the world. http://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news...adelaide-31135 Then I read this startup company is planning small-scale manufacturing in Holden's factory, which could use existing suppliers. http://www.caradvice.com.au/339479/y...m-2019-report/ Gordon Murrary's T-25/T-27 and i-Stream manufacturing could be adopted very cheaply by a local startup. And then there's the advent of 3-D printing which is starting. (Imagine a 3D-printed mining truck/ute with a diesel version of the Barra!) Whatever happens now, the current trend away from manufacturing has forced people in the industry to become innovative. It's very clear that alot of people are still passionate enough in this country for something to happen. Not on the scale of the big players maybe, but I think it would be foolish to think we won't have any indigenous creations going forward. Now we need government policies to allow free use of safety labs, emissions labs and test tracks, to make it easier. The vacuum left by the larger scale manufacturing could be filled by other sectors of advanced manufacturing. I don't buy the argument about market fragmentation, otherwise cars like Corolla, Mazda3 etc wouldn't have the dominance they have in the top 10 still. I don't care if anyone supports my idea or not, I know most things are being contracted to China ( while they work in detrimental conditions), but theres still enough passion and desire for something to hatch here in the future. I only hope the next election brings about protection for the supplier network, so they can expand their business into other industries and keep alive- I'd rather see them subsidised than overseas carmakers anyway. It would take a paradigm shift from the current government, who clearly doesn't want us to innovate or manufacture in this country. Thoughts? |
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#3 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,876
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Small scale, niche vehicles and high quality.
I think something like a modern interpretation of a 70 series Lanadcruiser would do well being locally designed and built. Word on the street Malcolm Turnbull when he met with Elon Musk a few weeks back in the US flagged the idea of building Teslas in the Toyota plant in Melbourne if he were to become PM. |
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#4 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,138
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Quote:
Even if that was true, maybe there is enough passion and a few technology breakthoughs like I mentioned to not require any government funding (though some regulatory changes would be most effective, without upsetting indignant taxpayers). If Labor gets in, at least the suppliers can maybe be saved, they have demonstrated lately that they deserve to be rescued. More than GM or Ford anyhow. Quote:
All those examples fly in the face of doubters as it is. I think we may see more examples soon. |
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#5 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Wagga
Posts: 1,462
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hopefully the JOSS supercar becomes successful.
http://www.joss.com.au/#!home/mainPage
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FG MKII XR6 Turbo in Kinetic -Auto - Luxury pack - stock as a rock. ![]() DJRTP Gold Team Mate ::: Tickford Racing Gold Member |
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#6 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 1,606
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Yeah, if Turnbull spoke to Musk, then he MUST be willing to build a factory here to make 1000 cars a year tops.....not quite sure if that would work.
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____________________ 2019 LDV G10 2009 Mitsubishi Express-GONE 2011 Honda Jazz ____________________ |
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#7 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,138
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Considering we already have our own EV startups: EV Engineering /Axiflux and Blade, but if the government snubbed GMH for BMW as their federal transport, what hope do they have... Like I said, too much talent is going to waste. We could have been at the vanguard at the industry- I believe there's a slim chance we still could be if government or its attitude changes. Not trying to push an agenda, just being a True Believer for our beleaguered industry.
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#8 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Catland
Posts: 3,660
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A good thread, because it's really at the heart of the matter. Do you want to make things in this country? Do you have to have manufacturing to be an OECD top 20 economy? Do you want a future path for your children in design, engineering or manufacturing to be available locally?
1) Local ownership 2) Local Capital 3) Play our niche. It's been no help to be involved in 'One Ford' - as this policy directed by Dearborn has put an end to a manufacturer open since 1925. And impeded it from exporting where it wanted, when it wanted. At the same time, it allowed Brazil-only models to be continued there while Ford Australia was sacrificed. When you don't have control over your enterprise, others can make decisions for you. For example, the demise of the Commodore platform was, in the end, decided upon by a German FWD engineer. I think we Aussies do utes very well. Others around the world are amazed by them, and wonder why they can't get anything like that. A proper coupe-utility, comfort of sedan and practicality of utility, something definitely separate from a 'pick up' or 'dual cab'. Start there with an auto body builder, engineers, designers and hopefully keep some mechanical tooling as well. But most importantly, keep it locally owned by local Capital that supports the idea of manufacturing here. It works for the Germans... Then export it wherever our FTA's can take it. PS, good mention of Carbon Revolution.
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I6 + AWD |
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#9 | |||
Boss 335
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,330
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#10 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,138
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Quote:
I'd also like to see an enclosed vehicle that is capable of lane-splitting. I always thought my commute on the F3 and Pacific Highway would take less years off my life with a vehicle like this. But I digress. There's a crowd-sourcing initiative for the Sunswift, there could be one for this new brand , and a petition to get access to ANCAP's facilities, emissions labs, ESP calibration for free for local makers. As an idea. |
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#11 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: In Front of a Monitor
Posts: 1,646
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Come up with a concept then start a KickStarter campaign
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2004 Mercury Silver Falcon XR6T - 5 Speed 2017 Platinum White Mustang GT - 6 Speed 2022 Blue Thai-Special for Daily Duties - Auto |
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#12 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Catland
Posts: 3,660
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Thanks for the reply Falcon XV. I'd think there would be a couple of platforms available locally that are about to be consigned to the dustbin of history, but don't know if their owners would sell. Besides, I reckon you'd want to downsize overall, but upsize tray dimensions to make it practical. Another thing, like in the past, an indigenous panel van could be sprung very easily off a ute - and worldwide would be quite a niche. Hadn't considered crowd funding an idea like that - what does it take a company to deliver a new vehicle, 1Billion? Surely us Aussies could do it way cheaper!
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I6 + AWD |
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#13 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Canberra Region
Posts: 8,949
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Electric Ute, Tesla style would do ok I think.
Plenty of room under the tray for batteries.
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2016 FGX XR8 Sprint, 6speed manual, Kinetic Blue #170 2004 BA wagon RTV project. 1998 EL XR8, Auto, Hot Chilli Red 1993 ED XR6, 5speed, Polynesian Green. 1 of 329. Retired 1968 XT Falcon 500 wagon, 3 on the tree, 3.6L. Patina project. |
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#14 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,138
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Quote:
There are tiny utes in Japan ( Forward-control kei van/trucks), India ( single cylinder things -1 tonne micro FCV things) and a big bakkie following in Seth Efrika and Brazil. They represent potential export markets, or even CKD kits. I'd like to see a 3-D printed, carbon-fibre body FCV ute but maybe that's jumping the shark a little bit. Who knows, though; Carbon-fibre price has dropped dramatically, as have lithium batteries so maybe in 10-15 years it will be competitive with steel. It has come down from $35/lb to $12 in 10 years... LPG is definitely one area we need to keep innovating in. Orbital's system on the EcoLPI Falcons is simply amazing. I hope its compatible with other vehicles. It should be our primary fuel, just as Ethanol is Brazil's. Until Solar et al get off the ground, anyway ;) |
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#15 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
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Going back to the car market seems to me to be a pipe dream , the car market is over represented with vehicles and the world is flooded with car makers all trying to make a buck and under cutting each other at every turn.
imo we would be better off pushing the technology of prefab modular housing that could be built super quickly and cheaply, imagine having rooms delivered and snapped together and all plumbing and electrics already done with snap together fittings to the slab, how good would that be , imagine ............ bare slab at 9 am , job done ......barby at mid day. . |
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#16 | ||
AKA "the other bloke"
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,966
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Not wanting to make this a political thing but to say that Holden was going to stay long term in Australia is a pipe dream, nor labor or the lib's could stop them from closing,
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Her's: 2000 AU II Fairmont Ghia 75th anniversary VCT meteorite & 2014 yaris - white His Toy: 2012 fg II GT-E, emperor red His: VS Ute 5 Litre 5 speed (povo pack) His: 2012 FG II GS, Vanish His: 2003 BA GT-P, Lightening Strike Jnr: 2002 AU III Falcon XR6 ST, 5 speed Blueprint & 1978 XC Fairmont Neptune Blue Previous: 1976 HX 50th Anniversary Kingswood 2014 FGX G6E Turbo 1980 XD Falcon GL 2003 BA Falcon XR6 1991 EB Falcon S 1989 EA Fairmont 1982 XE Fairmont 1968 XT Falcon |
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#17 | |||
Donating Member
![]() Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,523
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Quote:
Getting Tesla on board is a great idea, but that doesn't fix the problem. That just gets us a new master.
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Oooh baby living in Miami....
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#18 | ||
Au Falcon = Mr Reliable
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North West Slopes & Plains NSW
Posts: 4,076
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Gov are about to make a announcement if i heard correctly on tv ABC 24 just now, they are going to reinstate around 1 billion dollars worth of funding to the auto industry. Here's the link to confirm -
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-1...y-fund/6292868 Some good news there! ![]() cheer's, Maka
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Ford AU Series Magazine Scans Here - www.fordforums.com.au/photos/index.php?cat=2792 Proud owner of a optioned keeper S1 Tickford Falcon AU XR6 VCT - "it's actually a better-balanced car than the XR8, goes almost as hard and uses about two-thirds of the fuel" (Drive.com 2007) Last edited by Maka; 10-03-2015 at 10:13 AM. |
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#19 | ||
Virtuous Bogan (TM)
![]() Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TAS
Posts: 27,568
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Honestly I cant work out why we couldnt start making our own EV taxi fleet for large cities.
Obviously this wont work for regional areas but the enviro issues are predominately city based. Get the infrastructure going which could then flow to private cars. That taxi company could then later branch out into passenger vehicles if the market is there..if not stay smallish and continue supporting the city fleets. Our version of the London Cab..make it look different and ultimately as functional as possible.
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Last edited by Polyal; 10-03-2015 at 10:37 AM. |
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#20 | |||
Render unto Caesar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ::1
Posts: 4,222
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Quote:
The big 3 already announced their departure so I cannot see the point of the money going to them. I certainly hope that it is put to better use and support local engineering of future vehicle technology and manufacturing.
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"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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#21 | |||
Au Falcon = Mr Reliable
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: North West Slopes & Plains NSW
Posts: 4,076
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Quote:
cheer's, Maka
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Ford AU Series Magazine Scans Here - www.fordforums.com.au/photos/index.php?cat=2792 Proud owner of a optioned keeper S1 Tickford Falcon AU XR6 VCT - "it's actually a better-balanced car than the XR8, goes almost as hard and uses about two-thirds of the fuel" (Drive.com 2007) |
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#22 | ||
Render unto Caesar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ::1
Posts: 4,222
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So they need a $1B of assistance for 2 years worth of manufacturing?
I find that outrageous. Like I said in my earlier post, the money would be better spent on encouraging manufactures and engineering firms to lead the way in the next generation of vehicles and not propping up companies that are shutting down anyway. Good money being thrown after bad.
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"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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#23 | |||
Pity the fool
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Wait Awhile
Posts: 8,997
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Quote:
With vehicles like the Landcruiser 70 series and Land Rover Defender going the way of the dodo next year, anyone globally who wants a no-frills no nonsense 4x4 in either wagon, dual cab ute or troop carrier for industrial or agricultural use will have to refurbish older vehicles, or make do with vehicles that are on offer commercially from the big players, but may not meet their needs.
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Fords I own or have owned: 1970 XW Falcon GT replica ![]() Proud to buy Australian and support Ford Australia through thick and thin |
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#24 | |||
FG XR6 Ute & Sedan
![]() Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bibra Lake WA
Posts: 23,041
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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-31810731
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regards Blue |
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#25 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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Quote:
And not all that money will be used either, it's just there if it's needed. |
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#26 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Melb north
Posts: 12,025
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Quote:
they could starve you out easily just by chucking in stuff you cant possibly afford to match , and they wouldn't batt an eyelid at running at a loss for a couple of years/cutting prices just to put you out of business. the asian car makers are a good example, 10 years ago hardly anyone wanted to know about them, even the big gun companies are getting a run for their money today. |
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#27 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,116
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Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OKA_4wd |
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#28 | ||||
Render unto Caesar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ::1
Posts: 4,222
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Quote:
Quote:
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"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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#29 | ||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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Well that is the idea behind it. Typical newsroom BS trying to make a story out to be something it's not.
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#30 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,138
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Quote:
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