HSV FPV - Aftermarket Modifiers ?

[EgoFG]

This was always my opinion of HSV.

And I based that on (et al.) the fact that they get a separate listing in the price section of Motor/Wheels, and yet do not have to submit cars to ANCAP etc.


But is it a fair comment - what do we all think ?

Please vote, but also put in you reasoning in a comment - especially if you have a good one - even a legal definition - but something beyond opinion

[4Vman]

Both entities have significant shareholding by their supplier/parent Companies and offer 100% FULL factory warranty on the vehicles, so IMO both aren't "aftermarket" modifiers...

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Both entities have significant shareholding by their supplier/parent Companies and offer 100% FULL factory warranty on the vehicles, so IMO both aren't "aftermarket" modifiers...

As above.

[GTP owner]

Put AMG, Brabus, Callaway, Walkinshaw, John Bowe stuff all into the one basket with FPV, Tickford and HSV/HDT. They take a base product and modify it to go better. It is just the degree to which the parent and modifying company have links that is the question.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by GTP owner

Put AMG, Brabus, Callaway, Walkinshaw, John Bowe stuff all into the one basket with FPV, Tickford and HSV/HDT. They take a base product and modify it to go better. It is just the degree to which the parent and modifying company have links that is the question.

Walkinshaw is debatable as its not strictly by the book, JB nope not factory supported.

[GTP owner]

Factory supported or not, they take the marketable product - a production vehicle that is complied, certified adr'd etc, and modify it. The degree to which the factory backs the product does not change the fact that these companies modify that marketed product, hence i believe them to be "aftermaket". The companies that do this may have close ties - so close that they have factory support, or more distant such as Herrod, but they all do the same thing.

[4Vman]

In my mind there is a clear and absolute difference between HSV/FPV and all the aftermarket mobs like Herrods, Corser etc who do custom non ADR stuff.

HSV and FPV are a fully endorsed Factory supported arm which sells models that have 100% FULL manufacturer backing and are 100% full ADR compliant.
The others are not and do not.

[DJM83]

So your telling me that you can/could buy a Corsa and it had no warranty and wasnt ADR compliant?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by 51RTE

So your telling me that you can/could buy a Corsa and it had no warranty and wasnt ADR compliant?

Corser warranted their own work and parts... but they obviously can't offer full Holden warranty because 1) they're not endoursed by Holden and 2) Holden wouldn't have a bar of It if something went wrong!
Don't forget Corser have no ability to do ADR testing or compliance either...
You buy the car from Holden and take it to Corser to be modified...

[gtxb67]

would ford or holden let their name be used in a product that was not factory. i may be totally wrong but the other brands mentioned do not have either factory in their name and if the money was right or loyalty was broken they would build other cars if they do not already. fpv will always build/enhance ford products exclusively while using the ford name. same with the other brand

[DJM83]

You said that

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The others are not and do not

Refering to No warranty and non ADR compliance

Edit, i didnt know that you bought the car from GM and take it to Corsa, Corsa with an 'a' not ser :

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Both entities have significant shareholding by their supplier/parent Companies and offer 100% FULL factory warranty on the vehicles, so IMO both aren't "aftermarket" modifiers...

Is the warranty Provider FORD/HOLDEN or FPV/HSV

It may have a bearing, although I would not think that FPV/HSV Warranty would be a deciding factor, FORD/HOLDEN warranty may be a deciding factor.

EG
If I was confident in the base product (and my mods), and had the resources to offer the warranty, and potentially a relationship with the manufacturer, I could offer a warranty on modifying Kia's with a 20L gas Turbine engine.

If Kia were prepared to still warrant the car it would only be if they considered the modifications not a corruption of the base product.
Kia might offer a limited warranty in such case anyway, on say Door Hinges, and headlights.

[Fev]

i dont believe they are aftermarket modifiers because they both have alot of input on the original product

[Fev]

Originally Posted by GTP owner

Put AMG, Brabus, Callaway, Walkinshaw, John Bowe stuff all into the one basket with FPV, Tickford and HSV/HDT. They take a base product and modify it to go better. It is just the degree to which the parent and modifying company have links that is the question.

I dont think Brabus, Callaway, Walkinshaw, John Bowe should be in the same boat as HSV, FPV and AMG as the former are all definately aftermarket suppliers and modifiers which supply kits rims and power upgrades for all of their select manufacturers models(basicly). Do HSV sell their products to commodore drivers? i dont think so

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

It may have a bearing, although I would not think that FPV/HSV Warranty would be a deciding factor, FORD/HOLDEN warranty may be a deciding factor.

if you wanted to be extremely pedantic, they may be considered aftermarket. to me, fpv seem to work hand in hand with ford - their factories are directly across the road from each other, aren't they. once again i may be wrong, but i believe the same guy does the designing of both the ford and fpv's. i thought i read that in the first 2 editions of 8ight which by the way has nice things to say about the gt-e

also with warranties and such, it is slightly off topic but hsv go over every holden that comes through their workshop and generally there are around 16 things fixed on them. most of these are very trivial like climate control going to 17 degrees and not 16 degrees as the display shows. i would be surprised if herrods or corsa went and fixed all the little pieces from a holden because they are not part of the factory, and therefore would not do warranty work, the factory does not care about. i would naturally assume the same type of things are wrong with fords of course

[GTP owner]

When it comes to warranty work, the dealer does the work, then gets reimbursed, or paid by the manufacturer. The question then exists, if it is an engine in an FPV, does FPV pay for the work, parts, etc? That will give a better indication of the relationship as far as the warranty goes.
As a slight aside, Nizpro warrant all of their work, and it is adr compliant and certified....

[EgoFG]

We all know that FPV is 49% Ford, and 51% Prodrive.

What is HSV ?
I have seen that it is owned by Premoso, which is 100% owned by a Walkinshaw family company, and another report says only 75% Walkinshaw (it does not state that the other 25% is holden ...)

[4Vman]

The answer to your question is easy, you buy a HSV from a Holden dealer and an FPV from a Ford dealer....
You take them back to that dealer for service/warranty.
Holden and Ford own the cars till they're sold, FPV and HSV charge their respective manufacturers for the cost to update the vehicles.......

[PHANTMXR6]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

Please vote, but also put in you reasoning in a comment - especially if you have a good one - even a legal definition - but something beyond opinion

This doesn't make sense.
You ask for 'your reasoning' and then you say 'but something beyond opinion'

What's the difference.

In my opinion neither are aftermarket modifiers as the cars are brand new with manufacturer warranty.

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by PHANTMXR6

This doesn't make sense.

Reasoning is a logical thought process, it can be based on many things, including facts, and opinions - I am more interested in the reasonings based on facts.

[Fordman1]

Aftermarket modifier = modified after the retail purchase

HSV & FPV are NOT aftermarket modifiers.

[Cobra]

I'm not sure about HSV but I'd assume a similar deal would apply, but with FPV you can not purchase any FPV part without an FPV VIN, so for this reason alone would mean that FPV (and most probably HSV) are definitely NOT an aftermarket modifier.

[CSV_LS1]

As far as i know Corsa warrant their own work and holden warrant the everything else. Corsa also sell adr compliant kits as far as i know. They did have extractors which were adr compliant.

[EgoFG]

My opinion, and reasoning that lead me to that is:

FPV = FORD (not a separate entity)
HSV = Vehicle Modifier - small volume and ...notwithstanding BarraXR8's definition ... an aftermarket modified car

FPV = 49% Ford
FPV are listed as FORDs is almost every price list

HSV = 0% (?) holden, they purchase custom-order holdens, and alter and then sell them
HSV are listed as a seperate car manufacturer is almost every price list

I suppose perhaps my point is not that HSV is 'aftermarket', but rather it is NOT the performance arm of holden - it is a seperate entity.

FPV is the performance arm of Ford

[BlackLS]

To me all HSV and FPV is is just a marketing face for Ford and Holden, to make it feel less painful handing over 70-80 grand for what is essentially a Ford Falcon/Holden Commodore.

Sending the cars to the FPV/HSV workshop for "tuning" is to make the owner feel like they're getting something special, when in fact the stuff done to them in the respective plants could probably be done on the vehicle's main production line.

Result - it helps sells cars.

To me an aftermarket modifier has next to no affiliation to the manufacturer, doesn't sell the cars through a Ford dealer network and people can go in there off the street and have their car modded.

[prydey]

+1 for 'not aftermarket'!

when buying a fpv or hsv you hand over your cash to either company and they give you a car.

with corsa, brabus, etc you can't as far as i know buy a car from them. you need to buy a car from the base manufacturer and then give it to them to modify.

i would put AMG and M (bmw) the same as fpv/hsv.

[68XTFairmont]

To me Neither are aftermarket as you can NOT order the mods after you initially purchase the car.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

Aftermarket modifier = modified after the retail purchase

HSV & FPV are NOT aftermarket modifiers.

Just what I was thinking.

You cannot drive into FPV with a 2nd hand BF / FG Falcon and start browsing through a catalogue of upgrades. Nor can this be done with HSV.

Both are car brands in their own right.

[Falcon Coupe]

Some good points raised, however neither would exist without their respective parent companies as they don't actually make the cars form scratch.

As stated they are not "aftermarket modifiers", more like pre purchase modifiers.

[Ives]

Walkinshaw Performance = aftermarket tuner
HSV = not