Red P and windows mounted GPS.

buddy92 · 09-02-2013, 04:40 PM

Hi all.

I'm in NSW and was wondering if it is legal to have a windows mounted GPS ( or phone GPS) on red P plates? I can't find anything about this.

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**redxm** · 09-02-2013, 07:09 PM

Phone gps definately a no no
A ban on all mobile phone use for learner, P1 drivers and provisional riders.
You must not use any function of a mobile phone while driving or riding. This includes phones in the hands-free mode or with the loudspeaker operating, or sending SMS (text) messages. The penalty for mobile phone use is three demerit points and a fine (or four demerit points if the offence occurs in an operating school zone).
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/...200707_p1.html

Havent been able to find an answer either way, but a device that is a GPS ONLY, is classed as a drivers aid, same as reversing camera. But it must not be mounted where it obscures vision. So you should be OK with that. Pretty sure RTA/RMS have a technical helpline, might b e worth a phone call

XR6T0Y · 09-02-2013, 07:22 PM

I remember that L's and P's couldn't drive with a GPS either when I was in NSW

buddy92 · 09-02-2013, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redxm

Phone gps definately a no no
A ban on all mobile phone use for learner, P1 drivers and provisional riders.
You must not use any function of a mobile phone while driving or riding. This includes phones in the hands-free mode or with the loudspeaker operating, or sending SMS (text) messages. The penalty for mobile phone use is three demerit points and a fine (or four demerit points if the offence occurs in an operating school zone).
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/...200707_p1.html

Havent been able to find an answer either way, but a device that is a GPS ONLY, is classed as a drivers aid, same as reversing camera. But it must not be mounted where it obscures vision. So you should be OK with that. Pretty sure RTA/RMS have a technical helpline, might b e worth a phone call

So even if I stick sygic ( phone GPS) on I can get in trouble for it? Even though I'm not touching nore using the phone whilst driving?

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2011G6E · 09-02-2013, 07:32 PM

I know people would abuse the rule, but this is another case of legislation not keeping up with technology. Queensland is going through it at the moment with confusion from the authorities over how to allow LED light bars on cars and four wheel drives...the legislation says "pairs of lights"...no one ever foresaw a long rectangular bar of light, and they at first said "fit a blanking plate in the middle to make it appear to be "two lights", and now guys I know out here have been told after ringing to see what to do, that a moratorium has been put on fines until they figure out how to deal with the "problem"

Plenty of people use their mobile phone as a GPS with it stuck to the windscreen...I did it with my Nokia when looking for somewhere in Brisbane a while ago in my Celica.
Also the law requires that you put a GPS "in the lower right corner of the inside of the screen"...I don't own a car where this is possible...there's no room in the Celica unless I fit it halfway up the sloping windscreen and have two meters of power cord strung across in front of me. They're meant to go over towards the middle at the bottom of the screen or on top of the dash.

I suppose "the safest is not to use it at all" is the only advice anyone can give you...

Werd. · 09-02-2013, 10:51 PM

Personally I use a air vent phone mount, and use my Android for all my navigation purposes. It works well and I don't have to touch it while driving, from a safety standpoint I'm 100% on it, but I'm not sure if it's legal.

I suspect the case will be:
Cop having a bad day will book you for it.
Most wont.

Ben73 · 10-02-2013, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6T0Y

I remember that L's and P's couldn't drive with a GPS either when I was in NSW

This is news to me. On my p's I drove with the GPS many times. Never had a problem.
I thinks it's safer and less distracting then having the missus giving directions. "Next... Left, no third right, the other right. Oh wait it was 5kms ago, U turn at the next freeway on ramp"

uniacidz · 10-02-2013, 03:56 AM

The law is plain and clear

P-Platers are a allowed to drive but not allowed to know where they are going.

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new2ford · 10-02-2013, 07:39 AM

Before succumbing to a GPS my wife bought me for a birthday present ("bah, I don't need that" I said) she called me the "human gps" - I could study a map at home and remember it in my brain for the whole journey!

Now I've become lazy and use it all the time, but it's a devil where to put it. A lot depends on the windscreen/dash design. I had no problem putting it on an Octavia windscreen but in the middle, otherwise you get the power cord issue. As for the Territory, the windscreen/dash angle is too sharp, it gets too much light reflection and there's nowhere easy on the dash, so it sits down in the hole in front of the gearshift where it gets little reception, I have to look down and it always falls over! I'm still working on that one.

It's ridiculous placing limits on P drivers but the worst problem is that some car manufacturers (like Ford) haven't really thought about GPSs when designing the car - and the road authorities obviously haven't caught up on the issue either.

FGII-XR6 · 10-02-2013, 08:06 AM

using a phone as a GPS is forbidden as a P plater but as I understand it you can use a dedicated driving or navigation aid ( a GPS) . But I wouldn't rely on my opinion ( or any opinion you get on here) your licence is at risk, as someone who knows and is in a position to give you legal advice . the RTA , a cop, the local chamber magistrate or a solicitor. these people are trained to answer these questions and you would have some protection from prosecution if you received a wrong answer

Quote:

Originally Posted by new2ford

It's ridiculous placing limits on P drivers but the worst problem is that some car manufacturers (like Ford) haven't really thought about GPSs when designing the car - and the road authorities obviously haven't caught up on the issue either.

they put restrictions on level 2 and 3 learners ( this is what P plates are still learning but doing it solo) because they don't have enough experience to handle extra distractions.
what is really ridiculous is all the whinging about P plate restrictions. learn to drive properly first and then you will be able to use a hands free phone, drive at 110 Ks and drive a big boys car.
lets look at it in a simple manner. when someone gets their pilots licence they can go solo in a small aircraft and there are restrictions on the conditions they can fly in. they then work their war up to bigger aircraft and have other restrictions remover as experience is gained. would you feel comfortable if a novice pilot with just the minimum experience required to get their licence were allowed to fly a 747 or an FA18 hornet?

new2ford · 10-02-2013, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

put restrictions on level 2 and 3 learners ( this is what P plates are still learning but doing it solo) because they don't have enough experience to handle extra distractions.

Soon after I got my Ps many years ago I was living in Sydney and was given my first fulltime job in Griffith in the Riverina. Although brand new to driving, I had to get myself out there and then drive around the countryside without getting lost. Of course in those days we had maps (which correctly speaking you had to stop the car to read) but I don't see the in-principle difference. It's like telling P drivers that they can't even use a map. uniacidz just pointed out the contradiction a couple of posts ago.

You know, some people even used to (still do?) try to read a map book on the adjacent seat or in their lap while driving. Isn't it safer to have the (electronic) map in front of you near the instruments? And wouldn't it be a greater safety hazard having someone who gets lost because of not being able to use a navigation aid driving erratically trying to work out where they're going? No I don't buy that one.

FGII-XR6 · 10-02-2013, 09:15 AM

any one reading a map while driving is not only an idiot they are also breaking the law as they are not properly in control of the vehicle. this applies to all drivers not just P platers. I never once said don't use a GPS they are a good save navigation aid but a GPS in the phone is out, do you think they are stupid? driver gets pulled over for using his phone ( maybe texting) quickly starts GPS app tells cop " no I wasn't texting was just using the GPS" to close this loophole they have deemed no mobile use at all including for GPS

Quote:

Originally Posted by new2ford

Soon after I got my Ps many years ago I was living in Sydney and was given my first fulltime job in Griffith in the Riverina. Although brand new to driving, I had to get myself out there and then drive around the countryside without getting lost. Of course in those days we had maps (which correctly speaking you had to stop the car to read) but I don't see the in-principle difference. It's like telling P drivers that they can't even use a map. uniacidz just pointed out the contradiction a couple of posts ago.

You know, some people even used to (still do?) try to read a map book on the adjacent seat or in their lap while driving. Isn't it safer to have the (electronic) map in front of you near the instruments? And wouldn't it be a greater safety hazard having someone who gets lost because of not being able to use a navigation aid driving erratically trying to work out where they're going? No I don't buy that one.

flappist · 10-02-2013, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uniacidz

The law is plain and clear

P-Platers are a allowed to drive but not allowed to know where they are going.

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Actually it means they are allowed to know where the are going just as well as they can drive.

The crux of the problem is that many laws need to be made far more draconian that should normally be necessary as some people will spend more time thinking up some esoteric convoluted situation to allow them bend the rules rather than just use common sense.

new2ford · 10-02-2013, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

I never once said don't use a GPS they are a good save navigation aid but a GPS in the phone is out, do you think they are stupid? driver gets pulled over for using his phone ( maybe texting) quickly starts GPS app tells cop " no I wasn't texting was just using the GPS" to close this loophole they have deemed no mobile use at all including for GPS

I was referring to fixed GPSs not phones.