Transmission flush on AWF21 6 speed auto?

Ozigoo · 27-02-2015, 02:31 PM

Looking at doing a transmission flush om my 08 Mondeo MA. Its the AWF21 6 speed auto box, not the "Powershift".

Found a few "how to" do's on the SAAB site, but they only do drain and fills.
They do it 3 times over a few days to get most of the crap out...

Thought it would be easier to just drain and fill once, then disconnect the "out" line from the oil cooler attach a hose to the oil cooler.
Then its just a matter of turning the car on and off to pump out, say 1 liter at a time while refiling the 1 liter back into the box via the top fill plug.
Doing this until the fluid coming out is the same color as the stuff going in...

My question is..... which one is the line coming out of the oil cooler back into the box? is it the one at the top of the cooler or the one at the bottom?
Im guessing the top one?

I might try a wreckers for the exact hose fitting of an old Mondeo cooler so I can click on the extension hose for no leaks...

Done hours of research on the bloody trans oil... the OEM stuff is $40/ liter

There is a hugh debate on the web over whether the Ford AW-1 fluid is the same as the Toyota Js3309 fluid or similar...
There is no definitive answer, so I bought some AW-1 Ford Motorcraft fluid from the USA. with postage still came out cheaper...

Anyone done this job?

cheers

Nick46 · 02-03-2015, 05:06 PM

Hi Ozigoo, Ive done this on my MB with the same transmission. Disconnect the bottom pipe as this will flush all the fluid through the heat exchanger/cooler too. You'll need about 20lt to flush completely and an extra 5lt for topping up once your done. I used a 10-12mm hose just pushed on tightly to the heat exchanger and put the other end into a large bucket that can hold 20lt or more. Then just run the engine and pump in as much fluid as you can though the fill hole on top of the trans under the air box. It'll be easier if you have someone sit it the car to turn the engine off as soon as the fluid starts to gurgle coming out of the pipe, pump about 2 more lt in then start her up and repeat the process until its all clean red fluid. don't forget to have who ever is in the car run through the gears p r n d +- and hold in each for a least 2 sec while it's pumping out. If you have a Castrol oil distributor in your city go there and get Castrol transmax multivehicle, it's what the afw21 uses and will be about $250 +- for 20lt. And also make sure you fill it to the correct level once your done too.

Ozigoo · 02-03-2015, 06:34 PM

Thanks Nick, exactly what I needed, your a champ... I bought 11 "quarts" of Ford Motorcraft AFW21 "AW1 spec" from a guy in the USA for AU$50 but it cost AU$150 to be delivered. It was still way cheaper than what I could find here... Looks like its not going to be enough...=/ They want $40 per liter for the Ford spec fluid at the stealers...Your suggestion sounds interesting with the Castrol Transmax...is this something you have some inside information about? Are you a Ford mechanic? I searched the web for hours before I bought the fluid from America and haven't come across this anywhere? Supercheap Auto sells it for $49 4lt ...It does say Aisin Warner JWS 3309 on the spec sheet but not AFW21 "AW1 spec", which is the whole debate on the web whether the 2 are the same...most say the 5 speed Aisin auto is the 3309 spec fluid but the 6 speed is not ....and that the AWF21"AW1 spec" fluid is alot different in color and texture...haven't found anyone whose actually had the 2 tested side by side...
Cheers

GK · 02-03-2015, 07:46 PM

I have that trans too.

I paid $300 for my local trans guy to do the lot, full flush.

GK

Ozigoo · 02-03-2015, 07:49 PM

EDIT: Now Im not so sure...=/ read some more and people are saying the Fuchs 4400 is only a "recomendation" and that synthetics should not be used in these boxes ...think Ill stick with my Motorcraft ford fluid and just flush through maybe 10 "quarts " leaving 1 for a top up...

Found this FUCHS ATF 4400 has the aw-1 spec

http://www.fuchs.com.au/ProductDetai...oduct_id=38292

hope its cheap.....

found this also but never heard of them?

http://www.totaloil.com.au/automotiv...tic-mv-lv.html

Ozigoo · 02-03-2015, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GK

I have that trans too.

I paid $300 for my local trans guy to do the lot, full flush.

GK

Wondering what fluid he used?...the fluid alone would be $400 at least if they use OEM stuff? Is it on the reciept? can you ask him and post back? cheers

Nick46 · 02-03-2015, 08:57 PM

On the castrol lube guide which is on the net, its the fluid that meets all the specs for the trans. No harm in getting the ford fluid either. Ive had it in mine now for 15k km now and no dramas. I flushed mine at 60k km and the fluid that came out was darker but still had the reddish tinge to it didn't smell burt either. The only bad thing is that you can't apparently change the filter in the trans without removing it first.

cobrin · 05-03-2015, 11:36 AM

spec's are (well at least for an '09 MB) bout to do mine.

AW-1 fluid WSS-M2C924-A

Nulon 100% Synthetic Multi-Vehicle Auto Transmission Fluid - 4 Litre $67.75 meets the spec.

Ozigoo · 09-03-2015, 02:07 PM

I read somewhere that synthetic oil is not good for these 6 speed boxes..

GK · 10-03-2015, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozigoo

Wondering what fluid he used?...the fluid alone would be $400 at least if they use OEM stuff? Is it on the reciept? can you ask him and post back? cheers

Sorry, just saw your question today.

He got the original fluid from Ford.

GK

Ozigoo · 10-03-2015, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GK

Sorry, just saw your question today.

He got the original fluid from Ford.

GK

Ford quoted me $39.00 per liter,for there OEM oil, so with a decent 15lt flush it would cost me around $500 - $600 just in oil...I ended up getting 11 litres of Motorcraft Ford oil from the USA for AU$200 delivered, so I think Im just going to do the 3 x drain and fills method...

cobrin · 15-03-2015, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozigoo

found this also but never heard of them?

http://www.totaloil.com.au/automotiv...tic-mv-lv.html

On Friday past, I emailed the FNQ Distributor, and he got back to me soon after. I had originally enquired specifically about TotalOil Fluidmatic MV LV, he suggested Total Oil Fluidmatic MV, then added Elfmatic MV is also suitable as it's the same oil just rebranded. He sent me the Product Data sheet to go over.

*NB slow loading website.
TotalOil MV LV looks like the better choice:
http://www.totaloil.com.au/automotiv...tic-mv-lv.html

MEETS THE REQUIREMENTS:
JASO 1A
Aisin Warner AW-1
DSI H 6-speed Transmissions (AT 3292)
Ford Mercon LV & Mercon SP
GM Dexron LV
Honda/Acura ATF DW-1
Hyundai/Kia SP-IV/ NWS-9683 T-5
Mercedes-Benz MB 236.12 & 236.14
Toyota Type-WS (JWS 3324)
ZF M1375.4 (6HP) (ZF Lifeguard 6)
Zf 8 speed AT (ZF Lifeguard 8)

ELF MV LV equivalent: (may be why he didn't suggest it)
http://www.elf.com/consumers/car-oil...tic-mv-lv.html

OEM's level(s)
Toyota T-WS (JWS 3324)
Hyundai / Kia SP-IV
Nissan Matic S
JASO 1A
GM Dexron VI
Ford Mercon LV
ZF M-1375.4 (6HP)
Honda ATF DW-1
MB 236.12 & 236.14

Yet he suggested ELFmatic MV
http://www.elf.com/consumers/car-oil...fmatic-mv.html

OEM's level(s)
Aisin Warner AW-1
Allison (C-4 / TES-295 /TES-389)
Audi (G 052 025-A2 / G 052 162-A1)
BMW 7045E / LA2634 / LT 71141
Chrysler ATFs +3 / +4
Daihatsu Alumix ATF Multi
DSI H 6-speed Transmissions (ATF 3292)
GM Dexron IID / IIIG / IIIH
Ford Mercon / Mercon V
Ford model fitted with BTR automatic transmissions
Honda ATF-Z1
Hyundai / Kia / Mitsubishi SP-II / SP-III
Mitsubishi Diamond (SP-II / SP-III)
Isuzu Besco ATF-II, ATF-III
JASO 1-A (M-315 – 2004)
Mercedes Benz MB 236.12 & 236.14
Nissan Matic-D / Matic-J / Matic-K
Subaru ATF
Suzuki ATF oil
Toyota T-III / T-IV
VW G 052 025-A2 / G 052 162-A1
ZF TE ML 11B

Again being suitabe for the application doesn't mean equal to OEM and I'm not sure I like the:

This Lubricant can be used in a broad range of automatic transmission standards (Asian, European, American...). It’s particularly suitable for 4 and 5 speeds automatic transmissions.

How the hell did it get to this...getting to the point that you're looking for suitable for our 6spd, but it's for 4-5spd. Doesn't breed confidence.

Yet covers this, which I kinda like more than the other codes floated.
Ford/ Lincoln/ Mercury P/N XT-2-QDX [M], XT-2-QSM [Syn], XT-5-QM or -DM [V], XT-8-QAW [Premium], XT-9-QMM5 [FNR5], WSS-M2C922-A1

I'm trying to hunt down AWF21 spec fluid viscosity ctSt values and compare to Elf's:
Viscosity kinematic at 100 °C :
Unit: mm2 /s
Test Method: ASTM D445
Result: 7.0
Variances aside if it's similar I may just give it a go.

anyway it's $173 for 20L drum, and about 400km away from me, which I might drive to give the car a good run, it's not stretched it's legs since purchase almost 12mths ago. Cairns to Townsville is an ok trip. I've driven there just for lunch twice in the past cause I was bored. lol

Basically the email (cut out non essentials):

Yes, Fluidmatic MV or Elfmatic MV is the oil for the job.
Pricing is as follows:
4L Packs Fluidmatic MV $ 40.21 each including GST $ 10.0525 / Litre
20L Packs Elfmatic MV $ 172.70 each including GST. $ 8.635 / Litre

Fluidmatic is the Total Brand Name and Elfmatic is the Elf Brand Name. Total & Elf are the same company. The products are an identical blend the only difference is the Name and the colour of the containers.

Anyone else like to chime in?

Ozigoo · 17-03-2015, 11:38 AM

Hi Cobrin, I share your frustration with finding a suitable oil for our Aisin 6 speeds, its ridiculous that there is so little info on the "Mysterious " AW-1 spec.
What the hell is AW-1 ...lol.. whats its actual specifications, like you say what is its Viscosity kinematic at 100 °C etc. even the actual bottle of Motorcraft Fluid has nothing written on it as to its makeup. Im tempted to buy just one bottle of the OEM fluid just to see if anythings written on that bottle..
Im even tempted to have it analysed just to settle it in my mind...
I have scoured the web for literally hours and hours as Im sure alot of us have and there is so much conflicting info , and "opinions" but very little hard evidence...
The only thing that came close for me was these 2 websites with pictures of the Aisin JWS 3309 oil with the Ford Motorcraft oil in its spec, and since the Ford Motorcraft oil specifically says on the bottle "designed, engineered and recommended for use specifically for the Aw F21 6 speed transmission"
I came to the conclusion AW-1 = JSW 3309 even though there are alot of people saying its not the same oil, but there are an equal number saying it is...so its very confusing..lol

I posted the links here on the SAAB Forum(scroll down to my post), one is a direct PDF download of the spec, the other link to the Motorcraft oil

http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/sh...=270945&page=5

To add further confusion some AW-1 spec oils are synthetic (Fuchs etc.) and yet some are "saying" synthetics are no good for the 6 speeds? lol

Getting to your suggestion, it actually looks good on paper, but no info on whether its a mineral based or synthetic?

If you do get it and put it in Im eager to know if it seems ok?
people have had good results with the the Valvoline JSW 3309 semi synthetc

Its so hard to know and with the hugh expense of the transmission going wrong its really hard to take any chances...

I bought the Mororcraft oil from the USA, so at least this change will be with some confidence, but ill have to find an alternative sooner or later....

Ozigoo · 17-03-2015, 02:17 PM

Heres the MSDS for the Ford Motorcraft oil.

https://www.fcsdchemicalsandlubrican...us171914us.pdf

Ozigoo · 17-03-2015, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobrin

anyway it's $173 for 20L drum, and about 400km away from me, which I might drive to give the car a good run,

Try these guys probably cost you $20 door to door, Ive used them b4

https://www.smartsend.com.au/

cobrin · 21-05-2015, 09:56 AM

UPDATE

well I did drive to Townsville on the weekend and had a chat with Grant Westlake (top guy) we went through all my options and indeed MV looks to fit the bill from his side of things. I did get 20L and will do a full flush soon. Just happened to be driving past Ford so popped in and picked up a litre of PWR steer. fluid $30.

Just need a good technique to do. I'd like to have it idling and push and feed it at the same time but I think that's just wishful thinking. If I have to I'll drop the plug/cooler lines and do bit by bit filling emptying ect...

Ozigoo · 23-05-2015, 10:53 AM

Hi Cobrin, will be interested to see if it feels any different..
I did mine a couple of weeks back, it was actually very straight forward.
You basically take out the air filter which is very easy and use a large
Torx bit to undo the filler plug ontop of the transmission box.
Underneath I used an old 3lt milk container to measure the first bit of fluid that comes out when you unscrew the first part of the "2 stage screw"
Once you have that measurement which for me was a bit over a litre, its just a matter of undoing the second part of the screw (i used an angle grinder on a 1/2 inch socket to grind it to fit the hole as its a very large hexagonal hole) dump the rest of the oil and refill in 2 stages, the first until oil dribles out of the hex hole then put 2nd screw back and top up with the measured amount that came out when you first emptied it(a bit over a litre for me)
I drove up the road changing gears manually and reving it in each gear ,holding it in each gear awhile, including reversing a bit, sloshing the new oil around as much as possible, came back and did the refill again. I did this 3 times over all and used about 11 litres...The oil came out prety clean on the 3rd time.
I did consider the flush through method with hoses etc. but it seemed to me not a great deal of extra gain for the extra hassle...
I think it feels like the changes are smoother but its pretty subjective and I noticed the first oil dump looked quite red and reasonably cleanish I think...hard to say...but I have peace of mind now and happy with the job......good luck with yrs
Cheers

cobrin · 24-05-2015, 12:03 AM

Hey Ozigoo, yeah I was going to use that method you mentioned as a backup if I can't do it my way. However I was going to modify it slightly and have it up on stands and go through the motions. I don't mind the wheels turning as long as I've got it stable and safe enough to sit there (dunno yet). Mine is now at 150K (can't believe I've put 30K on it in 12mths).

Thanks for the heads up with Total Fluids, I didn't mind giving them a go, $160 for 20L is very cost effective. I'll probably end up draining the cooler and lines anyway and do the pan a few times.

Ozigoo · 24-05-2015, 10:36 AM

Hi Cobrin, Yea mines at 150k too, I only just bought mine recently with 140k on the clock and a decent service history for $8k so I recon I did alright..
Thats why I thought Id give it a good service including new brakes etc. Might also look at the steering fluid like you as it seems to be a weakness in the design.
I used front ramps for my trans oil change, and it was really quick and easy to put the air filter back on between runs..the whole 3 changes took about 2 hours I recon...
When I was looking into the "proper flush" method I thought of buying a second hand trans cooler hose from a wreckers so I could clip it on properly to the trans cooler... I decided against it when I saw a table showing after 3 flushes you basically remove 80+ percent of the old oil and the remaining oil is pretty insignificant considering the oil is pretty good to start with.. anyway Im interested to see how you go...take some pics maybe and do a "how to" ;]
cheers