A bit annoyed at SOME (I repeat, SOME) bushfire victims.

[bloggs24]

they should have set a certain amount for every house hold. you shouldnt be rewarded more for not paying for insurance, then those who did.

[Iggypoppin']

Some people, especially those living very isolated, probably can't afford the insurance. Some probably can, but we dont know. Its also interesting to note the amount of money we, as Aussies, where able to donate within, what, a fortnight? hundred million, or more, I can't remember....but it was a lot. gratefulnes sometimes isnt something on a person's mind when they've lost it all. no doubt they will look back on it in a year and think "I have a house, car, and my belongings back, thanks to the people who donated money to the charity funds". then again, some people will think in a year " donate all the money you like..my son died". might explain some peoples comments.

[snappy]

I would not think to much of it . That lady is probly watching it saying i didn't say it like that they made me look bad. The news we all know the edit it to make a story and this case is probly no different . The media builds you up just so they can bring you back down .
For what its worth there is probly alot of victims that are extremely gratful for our contributions.

[XR6-VCT-2000]

Originally Posted by Laminge

Not at all, those that donated have the right to question the delay in distribution of funds.

I agree we do too, but that isn't realy the thread topic, it's was about the lady on tv waiting for payment (a victim , not a donatee).
That lady on tv I wouldn't even judge her reactions because I have never experienced what she is going though, and I don't know how I would react realy if it happened to me !.

As others mentioned I think the fire victims are greatful for sure for all the donations.
Imo it's not even worth questioning why the funding is taking so long to distribute, when the government gets their hands on things; things take ages to sort out as always.

I can just see this leading to debates over people getting payed less or more , the disputes over people with or without insurance etc etc.

Anyway, I hope this thread stays on track. cheers.

[GTpilot]

Originally Posted by Russell

I agree, remember people this tragedy happened a month ago now. The victims have been basically doing it tough for that last month. No house, no car, and in some cases no family.

The last thing they should have to worry about is a delay in receiving funds. Imagine it was you who lost everything you have, a lot of these people won't be working atm either so no income.

Remember all the facts before commenting.

Very valid point. There is a fine line here and many different points of view. however.
I know, and know of through friends and family, several people who lost their homes. Those that were insured are not living in tents if they are, they should'nt be. They are in motels, Rented houses or units on a caravan pk. Their INSURANCE has taken care of that. They did not mess about put in their claims and recieved 5k with in a few days towards being able to get some necessary items. Whilst it IS a big inconvenience to their daily lives they are all grateful to still be alive and have a solid roof over their head.

Those without insurance are most likely the ones living in "tents", crying poor and screaming for the funds to be handed out. They are the ones that CHOSE not to be insured, not us, not the red cross, not the government, them. For what ever reason it be, if they did not cough up for insurance, well thats is not mine, yours, or anyone elses fault. It's their own decision and they need to live with it.
Not quite the same circumstance, but, If I cancelled the insurance on my car (which, incidently costs double the house insurance does) and and left it parked in the street, someone came by and torched it, there is not charity fund for that. but wait, How will I get to work? the kids to school? the weekly shopping? my life is a mess!! anyway, I need not comment further. Please don't bring on the old arguement about being able to afford it either. My house insurance with $150k contents only costs me $50-60 per month (less than a cup of coffee a day really). :

My point here is this country and parts of the world have opened their wallets and given generously. I applaud the government and charaties for not hastily "dishing the cash". otherwise it will all be P****d into the wind.
As harsh as it seems, there needs to be a system put in place for this kind of thing, a way of tracking who has been given what. Also a form of proof of identity needs to go along with it. Whats to stop someone from scamming money from the donation funds, once, twice, perhaps three times because it was decided to setup a cash tent and people could just roll up, plead hard done by and wonder off with a wad of cash.

Money always has and always will bring out to worst in people.

I ernt just over 2K in overtime and bouns last month at work, I donated all of it. I want to know it has gone to the right people for the right reason.

[iCat]

go to your kitchen and make a coffee to take back to your warm bedroom to chat to others on your computer. turn your aircon on to ward off the heat of the day, or snuggle up against your heater while you listen to the rain on the roof. wander out into your backyard and frown at how the drought is affecting your garden. sigh as you take your pride and joy to the local car wash and find a half hour queue, such an imposition on your life. laugh with family around the dinner table. ring your friends. take your dog for a walk.

can you comprehend that this normal boring world suddnely does not exist for many of the bushfire victims?

these people who have survived the bushfires, we will never be able to fully understand and comprehend what they are going through. we cannot dictate what is their correct and proper emotional response relating to their acceptance of financial and material aid.

their world as they know it has ceased. give them a break.

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

while i do see your point and the points of others, how would you feel living in a tent on a football field and then at families or friends while coming to grips with one of the biggest tragedies that you are likely to have to deal with

you could not access your money or receive any assistance for at least a few days because all of your id had been destroyed

true there are people worse off than them, but they have had a horrible time. i personally do not see why us lucky folk should really care. i gave money unconditionally, they do not have to joke and dance around to make me consider our donation worthwhile




it is worth remembering that although we look at this devastation as the one huge tradegy, those who lost their homes and loved ones can only really see it from their little world. their world has been turned upside down and they do not need to look at the internet to see the gravity of it all. they just need to look at where there house used to stand. their pain is localised to a point that we cannot understand. one house burning to the ground is a tradegy, it is a pity people only care when enough burn to make the news

Exactly, I if I had been living with what they have for the last month and remember this all happend on the 7th of Feb or there abouts, to have this ammount of uncertanty over your head, I think I owuld feel the same. I feel fortunate that I'm in a postion to be miffed about this if I wanted to be (wich I'm not)

[tjb45]

Originally Posted by iCat

go to your kitchen and make a coffee to take back to your warm bedroom to chat to others on your computer. turn your aircon on to ward off the heat of the day, or snuggle up against your heater while you listen to the rain on the roof. wander out into your backyard and frown at how the drought is affecting your garden. sigh as you take your pride and joy to the local car wash and find a half hour queue, such an imposition on your life. laugh with family around the dinner table. ring your friends. take your dog for a walk.

can you comprehend that this normal boring world suddnely does not exist for many of the bushfire victims?

these people who have survived the bushfires, we will never be able to fully understand and comprehend what they are going through. we cannot dictate what is their correct and proper emotional response relating to their acceptance of financial and material aid.

their world as they know it has ceased. give them a break.

Good post, but the attitude of the lady I saw on TV was "$50,000, that’s not going to be enough to rebuild, I want more". I know they have gone though alot but a little bit of gratitude is needed. People loose their home and lively hoods all the time with no $50,000 payouts. Hell a few weeks ago over 200 people lost their jobs in the Albury Wodonga area, all loosing their entitlements (some over $50,000 worth). Yes they still have their houses today, but I can tell you in 6 months alot of them will have lost it all.

[GS608]

i don't wanna come across as an a$$ but not all of the victims are genuine nice people, some will be grateful for the cash and support but others will abuse the circumstances and try and get all they can, leaving people who have lost more with less. Everybody should receive equal amounts no matter what. There have been other bush fires with no huge payouts or the support like this, people who have lost loved ones and all they had, some with insurance some without and they didn't get this kind of support, yes its on a much bigger scale and I'm not saying we shouldn't have helped, but just keep in mind, there are other disasters where the victims have received no where near this kind of support.

[GT0132]

Originally Posted by jgb

Very valid point. There is a fine line here and many different points of view. however.
I know, and know of through friends and family, several people who lost their homes. Those that were insured are not living in tents if they are, they should'nt be. They are in motels, Rented houses or units on a caravan pk. Their INSURANCE has taken care of that. They did not mess about put in their claims and recieved 5k with in a few days towards being able to get some necessary items. Whilst it IS a big inconvenience to their daily lives they are all grateful to still be alive and have a solid roof over their head.

Those without insurance are most likely the ones living in "tents", crying poor and screaming for the funds to be handed out. They are the ones that CHOSE not to be insured, not us, not the red cross, not the government, them. For what ever reason it be, if they did not cough up for insurance, well thats is not mine, yours, or anyone elses fault. It's their own decision and they need to live with it.
Not quite the same circumstance, but, If I cancelled the insurance on my car (which, incidently costs double the house insurance does) and and left it parked in the street, someone came by and torched it, there is not charity fund for that. but wait, How will I get to work? the kids to school? the weekly shopping? my life is a mess!! anyway, I need not comment further. Please don't bring on the old arguement about being able to afford it either. My house insurance with $150k contents only costs me $50-60 per month (less than a cup of coffee a day really). :

My point here is this country and parts of the world have opened their wallets and given generously. I applaud the government and charaties for not hastily "dishing the cash". otherwise it will all be P****d into the wind.
As harsh as it seems, there needs to be a system put in place for this kind of thing, a way of tracking who has been given what. Also a form of proof of identity needs to go along with it. Whats to stop someone from scamming money from the donation funds, once, twice, perhaps three times because it was decided to setup a cash tent and people could just roll up, plead hard done by and wonder off with a wad of cash.

Money always has and always will bring out to worst in people.

I ernt just over 2K in overtime and bouns last month at work, I donated all of it. I want to know it has gone to the right people for the right reason.

Was gonna write virtually all of what he said, but don't need to as he's already done it for me :sm_headba

If you can't afford insurance you can't afford a house

[mcnews]

There are plenty of morons in every crowd but yes that shouldn't let us forget the quiet ones that are thankful, unfortunately it is only the lower specimens in the gene pool we hear about. Apparently when Andrew Forrest and a minister were speaking the other day some cretins were actually shouting we don't want your words we just want your money etc. when what they were trying to ascertain was the best way to help. This mob probably just spend it on beer and drugs anyway...

We were under threat for four weeks and we could see flames from our place for two days the week before last so it got pretty close. We were as prepared as you can be, copper piper sprinkler system on roof gravity fed from big tanks up high underground, two fire pumps in the 85,000litre pool ready to go, permanent fire hose reels at each end of the house also gravity fed through underground pipes... Much of the bush around the house cleared.... Our neighbour is well treed in and had NO insurance, they were crapping themselves.

[Daymoe]

Originally Posted by GT0132

Was gonna write virtually all of what he said, but don't need to as he's already done it for me :sm_headba

If you can't afford insurance you can't afford a house

QFT.

Honestly, why the HELL wouldn't you get insurance on your house? Unless you have a few hundred thousand lying around your bank, then I could understand you could afford to build a new one at a flip of a coin.

My grandma is one of those people without insurance (Not in the fires though) on the 5 houses she owns, she is just el cheapo to get insurance, the reason she won't get it because "It costs too much money". There has to be some of those people who got hit by fires.

Everyone should receive the same amount of payout, insurance or no insurance, thats fair.

[Fev]

Originally Posted by fordomatic

my grandad was in ash wednesday and his house was one of the only ones left standing in his district. he said that the others got so much money to rebuild they built mansions and he said back then there was a huge uproar about it. hope the same thing doesnt happen but it looks like its heading that way.

well its all donated to the victims so what else would you do with it? the government can't take it away and the Charaties set up to support them have to give it to the victims. Hopefully evenly..

If i was him i dont think i'd complain too much, the value of his own property was probably raised by it hehe


I can only assume she was annoyed because its taken so long for the money the world has donated to get to the victims. It was a while ago now and these familys are still living in tents and community halls and the like. They just want to rebuild and move on

[ebxr8240]

This sort of thing always comes up when money is involved..
Green horns start growing out of some people heads!!
Just look at helping them all out !!
I have donated and more than happy to do so..

[BIGJB]

Did any of you stop and think that she may have been edited.
The media do it all the time.
How many times have there been posts on here complaining abotu
how the media has portrayed "hoons" and tared all of us that
drive modified cars as the thugs of the road.
It's their job and they do it well.
On the other hand maybe she wasn't edited and she is
just frustrated after a month of living life with a virtual noose
hanging around her neck with the uncertainty of where she will go from here.
After all these people have lost everything. Not just their possessions but in
some cases their loved ones. Their entire community is gone and it will take
years to rebuild and thats not to mention the emotional and mental damage
they will face every time they smell smoke from a neighbours BBQ.
Geez guys give em a break hey.

[JACK250]

Good point, it's surprising how much the media will edit things to suit them even in local papers about small things, so it's more than likely her words were taken out of context or just came out the wrong way.

[boss-290]

Originally Posted by Daymoe

Everyone should receive the same amount of payout, insurance or no insurance, thats fair.

Is it?

How so?

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by Daymoe

People without insurance get more money... Everyone should just get the same insured or not.

on face value, that would seem correct

but the idea of the fund is to help everyone get back on their feet again - no matter what financial situation they were in or how much common sense they used before the fires

obviously those with insurance will have a better starting point than those without. hopefully everyone can end up with at least the same as what they had before the fires - i am sure that getting to that point will consume most/if not all of the insurance and donation funds

[rodderz]

I drove through Kinglake West yesterday on the way to Yea to see a show (and Spiderbait), the area between the top and Flowerdale is totally destroyed. The road opened on the weekend and there are whole clusters of villages wiped out between Hazeldene and Flowerdale, the earth around it is scorched black. There are views of areas not seen before because of the lack of vegetation

You can see why the cleanup took so long- there are piles of mulch and trees every few km's, multiple tags on properties (and blue ones scattered everywhere, not sure what they were for...too many for fatalities), not many burned houses have been cleaned up yet.

The Kinglake road opens tomorrow, but I wouldn't recommend driving up there for a sightsee for a while yet, even more so taking photo's. The locals are keen to start over and the last thing they want are rubberneckers driving at snails pace holding them up like what happened yesterday with some cars in front of us.

[Stattic]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

on face value, that would seem correct

but the idea of the fund is to help everyone get back on their feet again - no matter what financial situation they were in or how much common sense they used before the fires

obviously those with insurance will have a better starting point than those without. hopefully everyone can end up with at least the same as what they had before the fires - i am sure that getting to that point will consume most/if not all of the insurance and donation funds

i would have to agree.... losing everything is a pretty severe punishment for not having insurance

[ltd]

Originally Posted by jgb

Very valid point. There is a fine line here and many different points of view. however.
I know, and know of through friends and family, several people who lost their homes. Those that were insured are not living in tents if they are, they should'nt be. They are in motels, Rented houses or units on a caravan pk. Their INSURANCE has taken care of that. They did not mess about put in their claims and recieved 5k with in a few days towards being able to get some necessary items. Whilst it IS a big inconvenience to their daily lives they are all grateful to still be alive and have a solid roof over their head.

Those without insurance are most likely the ones living in "tents", crying poor and screaming for the funds to be handed out. They are the ones that CHOSE not to be insured, not us, not the red cross, not the government, them. For what ever reason it be, if they did not cough up for insurance, well thats is not mine, yours, or anyone elses fault. It's their own decision and they need to live with it.
Not quite the same circumstance, but, If I cancelled the insurance on my car (which, incidently costs double the house insurance does) and and left it parked in the street, someone came by and torched it, there is not charity fund for that. but wait, How will I get to work? the kids to school? the weekly shopping? my life is a mess!! anyway, I need not comment further. Please don't bring on the old arguement about being able to afford it either. My house insurance with $150k contents only costs me $50-60 per month (less than a cup of coffee a day really). :

My point here is this country and parts of the world have opened their wallets and given generously. I applaud the government and charaties for not hastily "dishing the cash". otherwise it will all be P****d into the wind.
As harsh as it seems, there needs to be a system put in place for this kind of thing, a way of tracking who has been given what. Also a form of proof of identity needs to go along with it. Whats to stop someone from scamming money from the donation funds, once, twice, perhaps three times because it was decided to setup a cash tent and people could just roll up, plead hard done by and wonder off with a wad of cash.

Money always has and always will bring out to worst in people.

I ernt just over 2K in overtime and bouns last month at work, I donated all of it. I want to know it has gone to the right people for the right reason.

Agreed.
I was in Rhodes 066 for about two years as a part time fireman in the 1994 bushfires in Sydney, and you wouldn't believe some of the crap we saw. I remember one woman up at Hornsby, who was spitting on us because we couldn't save her garage (we saved the home) and she had no insurance. She was threatening to sue the NSWFB because we were allegedly useless. The point was, this idiot decided to live amongst the bush and ensure that should a fire start, everything would be destroyed (especially with the gum trees which basically explode once the oil in them gets hot enough) yet decided against insurance. Most fair minded people who love the bush would say its a risk, but would appropriately mitigate that risk through insurance. But no. Everytime there is bushfires we have a litany of victims who live in the bush yet decide against insurance. For mine, it's akin to those who drive cars without insurance, then moan when they hit something expensive. Truly a stupid and ignorant standpoint and one which often ends in tears. Whilst I feel for the victims in Victoria, it still doesn't address the fact that the people without insurance took a risk, and now that risk has bitten them in the proverbial. Yes they deserve charity but no more than those who went without other things in life so they could afford insurance.

[colossus]

No amount of money in the world is going to bring a loved one back - which is all I would care about if I was affected. And this is all I feel terrible about with these fires - the tragic loss of life.

In regards to property I have had and will always have home insurance - I do not feel one iota of pity for those that did not and do not think they should recieve any money whatsoever - they knew the risk, gambled and lost. Why should responsible Joe Blow have to pay out $500 a year or whatever for his insurance premium whilst the bloke next door sunk that into pokies or whatever and now gets a handout. I did not give any money to the "general pit of funds" because of this reason. I would happily offer my services for free to help rebuild things (and donate to essential services like red cross or the CFA) but I do not see how anyone deserve cash handouts (it should all be covered by insurance).

[RG]

Originally Posted by colossus

No amount of money in the world is going to bring a loved one back - which is all I would care about if I was affected. And this is all I feel terrible about with these fires - the tragic loss of life.

In regards to property I have had and will always have home insurance - I do not feel one iota of pity for those that did not and do not think they should recieve any money whatsoever - they knew the risk, gambled and lost. Why should responsible Joe Blow have to pay out $500 a year or whatever for his insurance premium whilst the bloke next door sunk that into pokies or whatever and now gets a handout. I did not give any money to the "general pit of funds" because of this reason. I would happily offer my services for free to help rebuild things (and donate to essential services like red cross or the CFA) but I do not see how anyone deserve cash handouts (it should all be covered by insurance).

I see your point, maybe compulsory insurance for bushfire threat areas is the answer.

[XRSIKS]

Originally Posted by Russell

I see your point, maybe compulsory insurance for bushfire threat areas is the answer.

I live in canberra.... it was never thought to be a bushfire threat area... :P

[RG]

Originally Posted by S&BXR6

I live in canberra.... it was never thought to be a bushfire threat area... :P

If it is within a certain range of a state/national park then it is a threat area. Hell I live in a bushfire threat area (ember attack) and I live in Ballarat.

[XRSIKS]

Originally Posted by Russell

If it is within a certain range of a state/national park then it is a threat area. Hell I live in a bushfire threat area (ember attack) and I live in Ballarat.

dont get me wrong i totally agree, my parents live on a property a hour south of canberra, theres nothing out there but bush, they pay a higher premium on their insurance, just incase, you never know.

I live about 2 streets from some grasslands, got my place covered for fire.

[Wally]

Originally Posted by boss-290

Just watching Seven News and there was a story about the donations that are now being given out to the bush fire victims. Just saw some woman saying, "Its about time". Meaning the money thats being given out.

That made me a bit angry. We don't have to gove them money, but we did out of the goodness of our hearts. I know I gave.

I have in the past weeks, heard similar things from other fire victims.

I know they're frustrated, but I mean. Be a little it greatful.

Just wanted to get that off my chest and see if other people agree with my thoughts.

How very Dickensian of you. Would you have the victims draw lots to see who asks for more gruel?

If indeed you did donate, it was probably because a deep seated sense of humanity drove you to do so. The deed itself is reward enough.

As others have pointed out, the spray was probably at those managing the money, not at those with deep pockets. I think many of us are bracing ourselves for the revelation that a lot of that money will be diverted to salaries of the various commitees that spring up when large sums are being handled. That will be the appropriate time to vent any indignation.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Russell

I see your point, maybe compulsory insurance for bushfire threat areas is the answer.

Mate, in NSW after the 2001 fires we now have a bush fire levy on our home and contents insurances. This is applied irregardless of whether you live in a bush fire area or not. Again, the masses are paying for those who put themselves in harms way and blithely ignore the risk. If there was another fire in NSW and these people who have had more than several ample warnings cry poor, I'll happily ignore them.

[Pinch]

Originally Posted by ltd

Mate, in NSW after the 2001 fires we now have a bush fire levy on our home and contents insurances. This is applied irregardless of whether you live in a bush fire area or not. Again, the masses are paying for those who put themselves in harms way and blithely ignore the risk. If there was another fire in NSW and these people who have had more than several ample warnings cry poor, I'll happily ignore them.

Is that for bushfires?

I thought the Fire Services Levy on insurance products was collected and directed to the NSW Fire Brigade (the urban brigade). I understand this is where they get the majority of their funding for their operations, whereas the NSW Rural Fire Service is more directly funded by the NSW Government (taxpayers).