Would you buy a diesel Falcon?

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Has anyone got numbers on how many diesel sedans (large/medium cars) sold are diesel. How big is the actual market? Is it on par with SUV diesel sales?

In the other Ford mid year review thread, Ford AU says 50% of Mondeos are diesel!

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Brazen

In the other Ford mid year review thread, Ford AU says 50% of Mondeos are diesel!

Mondeo Hatch sales. But that would be around the 1000 units so far for the year.

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Mondeo Hatch sales. But that would be around the 1000 units so far for the year.

And what if Ford had 10,000 units for sale? How many would they have sold?

The numbers are deliberately kept low as to not affect Falcon sales imo.

[Nikked]

If i was in a new car buying position, and due to House wife and kids needed a nice fuel sipper whilst still keeping true, then yes.

The diesel of todays age is nothing like the smoke blowing 4x4 engines of past.

[jixel 78]

The FG needs a diesel. The FG ute especially. What it doesnt really need is the ecoboost. WHY would anyone in the market for a ripper large RWD sedan possibly want a 4 banger in this car. Anyone in the market for anything remotely like that wont buy a Falcon. They`ll buy a Camry. Or a Mazda 6. A diesel V6 turbo Falcon.XR6TD? Yes please.

[jixel 78]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

Eco Boost is a no brainer: It brings the Falcon in line with Global Ford policy. I.e. Having a 4 cylinder available in every car Ford make.

Diesel is also a no brainer: As long as we have Mondeo, we'll never see a Diesel Falcon. Mondeo & Falcon are too close to each other & Ford needs a unique pocket to place the Mondeo that does not compete with the Falcon... Those 2 pockets are Wagon & Diesel.

So what happens to the petrol Mondeo?

[ute83]

Originally Posted by sgt_doofey

Sounds like the opinion of someone who hasn't driven a modern turbo diesel engine, especially ones in the European cars. They don't win the traffic light derby, but they keep pulling and pulling through nearly the whole rev range. No need to rev the guts out if them to overtake either. Just put the foot down in whatever gear and let the torque make you fly in no time at all.
As for servicing costs, yes, it's a little more, but in our Peugeot, it's pushed out to 20,000km service intervals, so it works out about the same in the long run compare to a petrol engine servicing with 15,000kms. (E.g. Pug over 45,000kms = 1 minor and 1 major service. Petrol = 2 x minor + 1 major service)
Cam belt is also pushed out to 10 years or 180,000kms, so a cost saving there too.

Maybe you should check out the torque curve of your engine. After peak torque at about 2500 rpm in modern td engines the torque just falls away very rapidly. Secondly I think you are game servicing an engine with a turbo at 20k km intervals. And lastly I wonder if the ecoboost will go the same way as the 3.2 litre in the EA.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by jixel 78

So what happens to the petrol Mondeo?

The Mondeo will be getting Eco-Boost as well. In Europe it will launch with 177kW.

[stev3n]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I think there is also some things to take into account apart from maths. I know if I have a fuel-guzzling car I will not enjoy driving it as much if its costing me a fortune to run. I would semi-cringe taking a petrol Cruiser on a long trip knowing how much fuel it will use, hence I would probably not enjoy it as much as having a diesel.

Nothing more depressing than going for a sunday drive and watching the tank empty very quickly, this feeling will last all through the ownership well after I have forgotten the initial purchase price!

Also I hate filling the car at petrol stations, my wife and I have this unspoken agreement that I fill both cars every week, if I can stretch that out to every fortnight then I would be much happier haha.

Brazen you suggest that you would fill up every fortnight. Assuming your cruiser gets 1000km/per tankfull. So you are doing around 25 000km/per year.
You have to keep your diesel criuser for 300 000km for the fuel economy to overcome the initial purchase price. At this rate you would need to keep the car for a minimum of 12 years. Very few people buy a car worth $90 000 and then keep it for 12 years.

I agree that nobody likes to stop to put fuel in the car, but it takes a lot of kms to break even let alone get in front. Put an LPG system on the same car and the maths need to be looked at again.

Sorry OP to go off-topic but just doing a comparison on two real vechiles that are on the market today. If falcons ever put a diesel in the line up I'll revisit the maths and give a break even figure for petrol vs diesel and another for LPG vs diesel.

[black widow]

if your after performance from your diesel falcon, you can always run lpg on it as well, it will give it a boost like no2 on a petrol car,lot of semis do it now ,less exhaust emissions, more power and economy

[jpd80]

I think that anyone considering a future diesel Falcon variant would be looking at it as more than
just fuel savings, I believe that's a secondary consideration to the driving experience
of low down pulling power. Diesel ownership really is a state of mind.

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by ute83

Maybe you should check out the torque curve of your engine. After peak torque at about 2500 rpm in modern td engines the torque just falls away very rapidly.

The 100kw 320Nm 2.0L HDi engine has a nice, flat torque curve with peak torque coming at about 2000rpm and staying there for the majority of the rev range. Doesn't fall away until close to redline.

Originally Posted by Autospeed of NZ

And it's not as if the trade-offs of diesel power are great. In fact, if you're not into traffic light grands prix, we struggle to find any downsides at all. The high pressure direct injection (that's what 'HDi' stands for) and intercooled turbo endows the diesel 307 (and 406, a car we've driven previously - "The Parsimonious Peugeot") with tractability and refinement. Inside the cabin you're pushing to even hear the characteristic diesel clatter - although mechanically-knowledgeable passers-by will certainly be able to notice what sort of engine is under the sloping bonnet. And tractability? Well, although the rev-range over which the engine works is much less than for an equivalent petrol engine, the power-band isn't limited to just a few thousand rpm. Instead, there's good torque available from 1000 - 4500 rpm. (That's better than we found in the 406 HDi - we assume that there have been some running changes to the engine design to give a wider torque band.)

http://autospeed.co.nz/cms/title_New...1/article.html
* This is the older of the Pug engines too. They've updated it since that review.

Secondly I think you are game servicing an engine with a turbo at 20k km intervals.

Standard service intervals for the Peugeot HDi (with FAP) engines. http://www.peugeot.com.au/media/deli...299-d0f042.pdf

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by jixel 78

TWHY would anyone in the market for a ripper large RWD sedan possibly want a 4 banger in this car. Anyone in the market for anything remotely like that wont buy a Falcon. They`ll buy a Camry. Or a Mazda 6.

I just dont understand that comment at all!!! Why would someone buying a 4 bangner Camry or Mazda 6, not look at a 4 banger Falcon??

Originally Posted by jixel 78

So what happens to the petrol Mondeo?

It'll still be there, it just want get focused on like the Diesel will!!

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by black widow

if your after performance from your diesel falcon, you can always run lpg on it as well, it will give it a boost like no2 on a petrol car,lot of semis do it now ,less exhaust emissions, more power and economy

There is a local company that has developed some impressive tech for LPG/Diesel dual fuelling which is now being exported.

I first read about it 2 years ago and was seriously impressed. Gains were terrific especially on the turbo intercooled models.

[ute83]

Originally Posted by sgt_doofey

The 100kw 320Nm 2.0L HDi engine has a nice, flat torque curve with peak torque coming at about 2000rpm and staying there for the majority of the rev range. Doesn't fall away until close to redline.

http://autospeed.co.nz/cms/title_New...1/article.html
* This is the older of the Pug engines too. They've updated it since that review.

Standard service intervals for the Peugeot HDi (with FAP) engines. http://www.peugeot.com.au/media/deli...299-d0f042.pdf

I couldn't find a torque curve for the 307 but I did find one for a freelander 2, so apologies. You say a flat torque curve, depends what you call flat. I suppose they are flat on the way up and then again flat on the way down. Check out page 47, in http://landrover.tagworldwide.com/fr..._100_en_AU.php

[sgt_doofey]

I also went searching for one for the 307, but couldn't find one. I just found one for the VW Golf TDi though
http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring...dsg-review.htm
Looks nice and flat to me. The diesel in a Landrover is a completely different engine to the European ones.

How about a BMX X5? http://paultan.org/2009/04/05/bmw-x5...ils-and-video/

[ute83]

[QUOTE=sgt_doofey]I also went searching for one for the 307, but couldn't find one. I just found one for the VW Golf TDi though
http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring...dsg-review.htm
Looks nice and flat to me. The diesel in a Landrover is a completely different engine to the European ones.

How about a BMX X5? http://paultan.org/2009/04/05/bmw-x5...ils-and-video/[/Q
They are both petrol motors you moron......

[burnz]

Originally Posted by sgt_doofey

I also went searching for one for the 307, but couldn't find one. I just found one for the VW Golf TDi though
http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring...dsg-review.htm
Looks nice and flat to me. The diesel in a Landrover is a completely different engine to the European ones.

How about a BMX X5? http://paultan.org/2009/04/05/bmw-x5...ils-and-video/

the BMX X5, isn't that a pushbike ha ha.

yeah the BMW X3 series is the diesel

[sgt_doofey]

[QUOTE=ute83]

Originally Posted by sgt_doofey

I also went searching for one for the 307, but couldn't find one. I just found one for the VW Golf TDi though
http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring...dsg-review.htm
Looks nice and flat to me. The diesel in a Landrover is a completely different engine to the European ones.

How about a BMX X5? http://paultan.org/2009/04/05/bmw-x5...ils-and-video/[/Q
They are both petrol motors you moron......

Thanks for the insult. Not really needed if you ask me. It was one of those occasions where I saw the curve and assumed it was for diesel. I didn't read the article, just the title, and it was one of those occasions where you read what you want to read.
Found the torque curve for the 307 2.0L HDi, not as flat as I thought, so I am willing to concede that I was wrong in this regard, but not at the expense of insulted.

[ute83]

Ok, maybe that was a bit harsh.... That curve for the freelander is fairly typical of a late-ish TD engine, steep up and then bugger all. They are really just a work horse, making masses of torque early with a turbo, but remove the turbo from the diesel and all you are left with is a slug unlike a petrol engine which makes useable torque for much longer. Add a power adder or two to a petrol engine and you can have both great power and economy much like what vw are doing. Another reason diesel's seem to have so much go is that they often have 6 speed transmissions which keeps it in the torque curve all the time. I don't mind them as i have one myself, i just don't think they will ever be as good or as smooth as a good petrol engine.

[kinksta]

i would have the diesel if it was as quick as the g6et...

[sgt_doofey]

Originally Posted by kinksta

i would have the diesel if it was as quick as the g6et...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iybs_eVndhs
Gets interesting at about 3 minutes in.

[naddis01]

Well while we are posting torque curves. Here is the current Mazda 6 diesels torque curve.



Looks pretty flat to me. Yes it does taper off relatively sharply after about 3500rpm (as peak power is reached), but think about how most Mazda 6's (and Falcon's for that matter) are driven. How often on the way down to the supermarket will this type of car rev past 3500rpm? To me diesel motors are suited well to family cars and I think a diesel in the Falcon would be an excellent fit.

[jmack]

as long as it has 8 cyl in a v