Why would you bother with a fast car in Vic? - Page 5

jimmyxr6t04 · 08-12-2010, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

If the current limit was 80, you could say the same about increasing it to 110. It doesnt take a lot of effort to predict the outcome. It used to be 100, they raised it to 110. People didnt stick to it, thats why we're here now wanting more, complaining about cameras and stupid limits.

How does 130 become some magical figure that is just so compelling to suddenly obey?

Well done for encouraging that speed limiter and sat tracking device every car must have in response to the "Get out of my I want to go faster and Ill never stop attitude".

Youre like 10 pounds of stupid, in a five pound bag.

My last comment was a bit tongue in cheek. Unfortunately typings things isn't the same as pronouncing them.

Here's a quick one for you guys to digest;

There's a section of road in canberra that was always 100km/h. One day, for no real reason it changed to 80km/h. Not long after that, there was a nice new speed camera installed along the part that was previously 100km/h.

Revenue? Saving lives? Why was 100km/h safe for so many years, and all of a sudden it's too fast?

Brazen · 08-12-2010, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

As for most will drive at a safe speed despite the limit being too low, tell that to road workers. For every example of reasonable judgment, there are many others with **** poor judgment. Im often overtaken in roadworks, even when they are clearly working there. There is no reasoning with them that slowing to 40 for 1km or so only adds about 1 minute to the journey. But no, that one minute is far too intrusive, they need to risk the lives of roadworkers instead, thats much fairer. If they will do it there, what hope do we have that they will be reasonable elsewhere.

What is your point here? Your now saying that low speed limits dont work as people overtake you in roadwork zones?

If speed limits were set more appropriately, then there would be a greater respect for the lower limits when they are applied. As soon as you start setting stupidly low limits on some roads, the whole speed limit system loses its credibility with drivers, hence you see a loss of respect for limits which should be genuinely low (e.g. school or roadworks). Either you can fight against human behaivour or you can work with it.

fmc351 · 08-12-2010, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

What is your point here? Your now saying that low speed limits dont work as people overtake you in roadwork zones?

Im saying no matter where you set the limit, for some, it will not be observed. But this is only half the point, try, you can string another in, the public, you know, the voters, dont buy into the whole more speed can be safer argument. Why, because you cant behave yourselves now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

If speed limits were set more appropriately, then there would be a greater respect for the lower limits when they are applied. As soon as you start setting stupidly low limits on some roads, the whole speed limit system loses its credibility with drivers, hence you see a loss of respect for limits which should be genuinely low (e.g. school or roadworks). Either you can fight against human behaivour or you can work with it.

So, youre telling me, an asshat that decides govco shafted him, so he is going to put kiddies in danger at school zones? and we need to feel for him?

See, I can play that game too. Dont bother, I got it, Ive answered it in a previous post too.

The ******** youre on with, IS THE STATUS QUO. Whats that they say about doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result?

Ben73 · 08-12-2010, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

What a waste of a thread, and it easily manages to bring out the pea brains with arguments that make no sense what so ever.

1) Having to monitor speedo at 110km/hr is dangerous and considered a risk factor and a danger caused by speed cameras - FAIL

****if you are unable to monitor your speed at 110km/hr and unable to maintain it at the speed limit (whatever it might be) without it distracting you too much to drive safely you probably should not be driving a car on a public road - Those that used that argument please proceed to you closest motor registry and hand your drivers license in for your safety and the safer of other road users****

2) People unable to stay awake at the legal speed limit suggesting they may fall asleep and as such would be safer going faster - FAIL

****please if you can not stay awake at the speed limit you should not be on the road, may be get some sleep, or take more frequent rest brakes, as your reaction time and ability to respond to changing traffic conditions would be greatly reduced and you should get off the road, rather than think about driving even faster in your tired state****

3) Speed is not dangerous - EPIC FAIL

***** Walk into a brick wall at very slow walking speed head first, now run into the same brick wall as fast as you can.....still think its not dangerous, travel at 20km/hr and have a 5 year old run out in front of your car 50 meters ahead, now have the five year old do the same thing while driving at 140km/hr. *****

4) I am a better driver so I should be able to drive faster - FAIL

****What makes you better??? Check your rims, do they have gutter rash?? Check your bumpers, do they have scrapes and scratches??? If yes and they were not caused by someone else, may be you are not such a great driver if you do not even have enough car control to not hit stationary objects at walking pace while parking or reversing your vehicle. Have you ever been involved in an accident?? What about race car drivers should the be able to drive around suburbia at 300km/hr?? Please if you are so good learn to control your car enough to drive within the rules.

It it really quite simple if you do not like the fine don't do the offence, I have been booked in the past, the last time was overtaking a truck in my XR8, but guess what I was in breach of the road rules when I did it, I was ****ed off and not happy about it, but it was me driving, me pressing the accelerator and me making the decision, so I only have myself to blame, NOT the cop doing the job we pay him to do, NOT the road planners, NOT the politicians NOT the truckie, NOT anyone buy me was to blame for MY actions.

If anyone has trouble sticking the the road rules it does NOT make you a better driver, or a tough guy or a hero of some sort because you think you are a better driver than mister average (how do you know you are a better driver anyway??? old granny going 60 in a 100 zone believes she is a better driver as well, as she has never had an accident in 60 years of driving).

A good driver will be able to drive safely,within the road rules we are given to abide by, if you are unable to do so for whatever reason you deserve to be fined and hopefully taken off the road by the police who get payed by us to enforce the rules.

I think your entrie post is just a fail.
Your reasoning is flawed.

Comparing 20km/h to 140km/h if a kid runs in front of you is just ********.
The 140km/h speed limits would be on Good quality Highways in the middle of no where.
If a kid is alone on a highway, I think they have more serious problems then cars driving passed them.

Personally my car does not have curb damage on the rims, it doesn't have any bumps or scratches on it at all. And no I don't think I should be allowed to drive dangerously because I haven't crashed my car.

No one is suggesting race car drivers can drive in suburbia at 300km/h just because they can control a car at that speed, That is stupid and adds nothing useful to this thread.

Most of the people saying we need faster speed limits is on HIGHWAYS IN THE MIDDLE OF NO WHERE. No one is suggesting good drivers should drive however they want.

I don't have a problem with staying awake at the posted speed limit, but it's so much easier to get bored and distracted when you feel like you are going so slow passed the surrounding environment.
Doing 100 on a straight, deserted 2 lane highway is soooo boring, I know because I'm required to do this a few times every week. Some times a couple times in 1 day.
It's so much easier to get distracted and start playing with the radio, AC, or trying to drink a bottle of water when you fell like the speed limit is to low for the current road you are on.
When I am on a road where the speed limit is good for the surrounding environment, I never play with the Radio or try to drink water. I only catching myself doing it when I am bored on a dead straight road doing 100.

302 XC · 08-12-2010, 06:54 PM

A few pointers for answers would be good

1. What and who determines if YOU are a safer driver than the next
Yah mates down the pub or an accredited driver training course ???

2. Who and what would determine what is a safe/safer car to drive at speeds of 110 Ks and beyond
Would they require a thorough speed check related road worthy certificate ???
(Mentioning of vehicles with vibrations at 110K is NOT safe )

3.Would there be certain vehicles allowed at those speeds
(Mates little hyundai/diahatsu thingy 4 banger goes faster than 130K,i think its unsafe at those speeds)

4.Are heavy vehicles or 4x4s safe at those speeds,and who says they are or arent ???

5.Which roads do get the speed increased ???
Major highways only
What about other roads that are 100K limited already ???

Reasons ,
1. Everyone thinks they are born race car drivers,its only the accident they have that bring em down to earth
2.What cars are really safe at these speeds
3. Just about every car on the roads today is capable of 110 or beyond
4.Truck are supposed to be limited at 100K, and most 4x4s will do 100Ks and beyond
5.To say our roads are great and can handle speeds of 100Ks,wow some of you guys should check out the 100K limited pot hole riddled just outta town roads

sarrge2001 · 09-12-2010, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 302 XC

A few pointers for answers would be good

1. What and who determines if YOU are a safer driver than the next
Yah mates down the pub or an accredited driver training course ???

2. Who and what would determine what is a safe/safer car to drive at speeds of 110 Ks and beyond
Would they require a thorough speed check related road worthy certificate ???
(Mentioning of vehicles with vibrations at 110K is NOT safe )

3.Would there be certain vehicles allowed at those speeds
(Mates little hyundai/diahatsu thingy 4 banger goes faster than 130K,i think its unsafe at those speeds)

4.Are heavy vehicles or 4x4s safe at those speeds,and who says they are or arent ???

5.Which roads do get the speed increased ???
Major highways only
What about other roads that are 100K limited already ???

Reasons ,
1. Everyone thinks they are born race car drivers,its only the accident they have that bring em down to earth
2.What cars are really safe at these speeds
3. Just about every car on the roads today is capable of 110 or beyond
4.Truck are supposed to be limited at 100K, and most 4x4s will do 100Ks and beyond
5.To say our roads are great and can handle speeds of 100Ks,wow some of you guys should check out the 100K limited pot hole riddled just outta town roads

Looking at your pointer number 2 - do you want the government to conduct the speed related roadworthy and driver training???

People haven't been suggesting all drivers, vehicles or roads are capable of 130kmh. Obviously they aren't. If 130 is the limit, it's up to the individual to make that call depending on circumstances. It's called BEING RESPONSIBLE.

Not all of them will get it right.

But in Victoria I would still bother with a fast car because there is still fun to be had with it legally (you know - the topic

)

mrbaxr6t · 09-12-2010, 12:18 PM

not far from where I life there is a dual carriageway between two towns, it is dead flat and visibility is literally to the next town (you can SEE the buildings in the next town) thats how flat it is, speedlimit is still 110 that stretch of road can clearly cope with me doing 120 I can see the buildings in the next town for gods sake, I can SEE what color the traffic lights are at in said town when I am about half way there, surely this stretch can cope with 120.... any reasonable person would see the road and could judge that due to massive visibility distances and the overall flat nature of the surrounding landscape (its cow paddocks either side) that going 120 on this stretch of road wouldn't kill you as if there was an obstacle you would see it from 2 kays away or more... some stretches of road a limit of 110 is too low for the condition of the road and the amount of visibility that is present.

Ben73 · 09-12-2010, 12:44 PM

Just because some cars are not good for 140. Why should that be a reason to keep 110 limit. Some cars are not even safe at 110 and there drivers manage that. So it should be no different if the limit was 130 or 140 if your car is only good for 110 you will have to live with that or buy a better car.

FgNewbie · 09-12-2010, 02:33 PM

Some turds aren't safe at any speed.

I nearly got run over this morning by P plate boy racer overtaking a slower car on a small suburban street filled with houses.

As I poked my nose out behind the van to look for traffic coming from the right, the mongrel was so close he nearly took out my mirror. If I had actually stepped out from behind the van without looking to the left he would of wiped me out. If I wasn't jumping backwards, I would of booted his car.

Ignoring that I believe he was exceeding the speed limit and driving too fast for the conditions, how on earth can these apes justify their actions when something goes wrong.

(I'm not saying all P platers are bad)

/rant

302 XC · 09-12-2010, 02:37 PM

Is this also a bit like the white lines sprayed on the roadways ???
Double white lines means its not a safe place to pass from either side of the road
Then why do i constantly see people overtaking on double white lines ???

Some times you cant teach stupidity , its a natural thing

sleek7 · 09-12-2010, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 302 XC

Is this also a bit like the white lines sprayed on the roadways ???
Double white lines means its not a safe place to pass from either side of the road
Then why do i constantly see people overtaking on double white lines ???

Some times you cant teach stupidity , its a natural thing

Not only not safe to overtake on double lines, but is also illegal.

Ben73 · 09-12-2010, 05:02 PM

I took this photo today. How is this road only 90 when some country roads with 1 lane each direction are 100 or 110.

This road is good quality with no pot holes. Good visibility. Fenced on both side and in the middle. Ranges from 2 to 4 lanes. Only has a few on and off ramp but they are a good length and have pretty good visibility. And has stopping bays.
Apparently cops sit on this road with a radar often.
Probably because they know everyone speeds because the limit is slower then it could be.

Brazen · 09-12-2010, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben73

I took this photo today. How is this road only 90 when some country roads with 1 lane each direction are 100 or 110.

This road is good quality with no pot holes. Good visibility. Fenced on both side and in the middle. Ranges from 2 to 4 lanes. Only has a few on and off ramp but they are a good length and have pretty good visibility. And has stopping bays.
Apparently cops sit on this road with a radar often.
Probably because they know everyone speeds because the limit is slower then it could be.

Seeing that you have done the work, perhaps send this photo in with your thoughts to your local MP, council and Transport Minister. Usually these things can change with political pressure rather than departmental initiative.

fmc351 · 09-12-2010, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben73

I took this photo today. How is this road only 90 when some country roads with 1 lane each direction are 100 or 110.

This road is good quality with no pot holes. Good visibility. Fenced on both side and in the middle. Ranges from 2 to 4 lanes. Only has a few on and off ramp but they are a good length and have pretty good visibility. And has stopping bays.
Apparently cops sit on this road with a radar often.
Probably because they know everyone speeds because the limit is slower then it could be.

Could be because people keep stopping for the purposes of arguments on forums.

sarrge2001 · 09-12-2010, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Seeing that you have done the work, perhaps send this photo in with your thoughts to your local MP, council and Transport Minister. Usually these things can change with political pressure rather than departmental initiative.

"Departmental Initiative"??

In the Public Service??

Ben73 · 09-12-2010, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

Could be because people keep stopping for the purposes of arguments on forums.

There was no vehicles close behind me when I pulled over and none when I pulled out. It's not an overly busy road that's why 90 just seams so slow.

fmc351 · 09-12-2010, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ben73

There was no vehicles close behind me when I pulled over and none when I pulled out. It's not an overly busy road that's why 90 just seams so slow.

I was just razzin ya dude.

302 XC · 09-12-2010, 08:42 PM

Good point ben73,
It amazes me why a lets say better road can magically drop from 100Ks to say 80 or 90 Ks
Got me why they do it
I think they do cause they can

Now if it was a known speeding area or a black spot well thats different

Why do they have "Trucks must use low gear" signs half way down the hill ???
Wouldnt they be better at the top of the hill

JG34JA · 10-12-2010, 06:39 PM

It's funny, when you surf you are constantly trying to generate as much speed as possible, then guide that speed into turns and manoeuvres for the pleasure of it. You are constantly looking for the most critical takeoff, turn, move, being on edge; how far can you push the craft you are riding, where are its limits? How does it please you most? Where are your limits? Lineups are often crowded, the danger of hitting people with a board or body is ever present and often very close, and there are absolutely no formal written rules for how to behave. (Although an unspoken understanding develops with experience). On any given day there are great surfers, good surfers, learners of all ages and all types of craft in the water of all sizes and everyone is out trying to get their own.

I am consistently amazed that so very few people are hurt.

But people have a knack of self regulating to perfection, just don't tell governments that it is an innate expression of being human...

If, for whatever reason Government and policing ceased tomorrow, I believe our highways and roads, after an initial exuberance at the freedom of it all, would be driven by careful, calculating drivers going at the speed and capability they determine is best for their timely arrival and survival. At this time, I would even hazard to suggest that the road toll will fall. I've seen the approximate of this human interaction in the surf and there is no reason to suggest the road would be different.

fmc351 · 10-12-2010, 06:56 PM

Wow surfing where you are sounds like such a wonderful utopia, I wonder where the term surf rage came from.

Or the many injuries from self regulation going awry.Not to mention, while somewhat crowded, its nothing compared to a road.

Id say if there was no government role, no police, there would be thousands of unlicenced, unregistered,m unroadworthy cars driven by drunks who think they are indestructible. Theres enough now.

FgNewbie · 10-12-2010, 06:58 PM

JG34JA by extention, would you hazard to suggest that road rage would fall too ?

edit: fmc351, I type slower

JG34JA · 10-12-2010, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fmc351

Wow surfing where you are sounds like such a wonderful utopia, I wonder where the term surf rage came from.

It is a utopia. Really is. Mainstream media is the source of the term 'surf rage'.

"Or the many injuries from self regulation going awry."

And yet, even when well regulated, so many injuries still occur. Difficult to picture exactly which type of injury you are meaning, but if you mean workplace, people still get hurt. I've seen it myself working in some very heavily regulated mining locations.

"Not to mention, while somewhat crowded, its nothing compared to a road."

True to an extent. My initial description was meant to evoke performance driving, for a lineup is a lot like a race track to my way of thinking. Lineups are very rarely used to get from A to B, so you are right in this respect. I was trying to get the point across that even when people are pushing their limits, an activity can be safe without overhanded regulation.

"Id say if there was no government role, no police, there would be thousands of unlicenced, unregistered,m unroadworthy cars driven by drunks who think they are indestructible. Theres enough now."

Again, you have mentioned a difference. I know of no other surfers who deliberately get drunk and then surf. Imagine the cultural shift if driving was regarded as an activity to enjoy and needed a clear mind to undertake. It would be interesting comparing driver intoxication/vehicle condition and the level of road accident occurrences per driver in a country with very low regulation (Eastern Europe, Northern Africa) and Australia with its high regulation - you may well be right that it's needed, or I may well be right that people effectively regulate themselves.

fmc351 · 10-12-2010, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FgNewbie

JG34JA by extention, would you hazard to suggest that road rage would fall too ?

edit: fmc351, I type slower

Nah, I just got it in, then edited the hell out of it. Thats why it looks awful, I was rushing the edits.

UNR8D · 10-12-2010, 10:54 PM

Biggest problem we face is the continuous change of speed limits in built up areas, especially in area's where observing where you are driving is the most important issue.

Second to that is the inappropriate use of speed signs in certain area's, as posted by one member a 90 zone for no apparent reason, in qld you have dirt roads marked 100, Mt Neibo (driving road) at 80 but the inner city bypass also being 80 (3 lanes few merges) or the few 90km/h ''school zones'' in FNQ or out west.... if you did that in Brisbane or Melbourne *any major capital city* you would be front page news and have the lynch mob out for your car.

There are quite a few on here that clearly have never driven out of their own suburb or are just 'sheep' believing what ever is said by the gov is gospel, and thats a scary thought.

When NT was // I drove from Darwin to Alice in a Avalon 4 people on board and did 200 twice, it was the initial rush of being able to do it legally, however i settled on a comfortable 145-150 for fuel consumption/comfort/ease of driving, most I passed did the same, or if coming up on a vehicle fast would simply ease off, pass and then resume desired speed, surprisingly the roads didnt look like i had been clubbing baby seals all day long.

Melbourne and VIC for that matter has got some of the best roads I've ever driven on, and was the best out of the 3 states I covered last year when taking the TS50 on a road trip yet it was the most annoying place to drive as I was focused on the speedo EVERYWHERE to the point it drove me mad, anyone who thinks 3km/h over is going to make a difference needs their head read.

Speed in its self isn't dangerous, funny how you can relate every accident to having a speed contribution, doesn't actually mean you were 'speeding'.. its inappropriate speed for the conditions/circumstance, its failure to pay attention and lack of experience.... and that lack of experience doesn't just apply to our P plater group either, there is no bigger killer on our roads than inattention but its harder to police, and fixing that would require money and training and that's a story best left for another day.

You see we live in a country where freedom of speech can be a good thing, unfortunately it means we need to hear utter trollop from ill informed people about subjects they know nothing about... good thing is it doesn't make their opinion correct and or valid, doesn't surprise me they are the same group who never provide statistics to back up their claims, or any personal or relevant experience either... surprised? no... me either.

Rev28K · 11-12-2010, 06:00 AM

My user name is REV28K and I fully stand behind what UNR8D has posted above.

+1

Venomous1 · 11-12-2010, 08:37 AM

One word "REVENUE" or "MONEY"

Ben73 · 11-12-2010, 11:43 AM

Drove on the f3 last night 1140pm-1245am. I was doing the 110 limit approaching cars in middle lane. They would be weaving slowly into the right lane then back over to the left. Had idiots with caravans doing 80 in the middle lane. All these people had average or slow cars. One more reason why it's not just speed. Other stuff is just as dangerous. If not more dangerous.