Large cars in 2012 and beyond

[Bossxr8]

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257988001023AF

[jpd80]

The next Large Car is not critical to global markets, the only two interested would be Australia and USA.
I'm interested in the linkage Joe Hinrichs made in discussing the next big car, his exact words were:

“We’ve got Mustang, we’ve got Falcon and we’ve got Taurus, but we have time for it to evolve and see we’re we are going to go with that.

“We’ve already said that if we do another platform, it won’t be unique to Australia – and we’ve said that repeatedly – but we’re not there yet.

And also this:

“Don’t get me wrong, I like big D/E cars, but the market doesn’t like them,” he said.

“It’s not a decision we’re making, it’s a decision the customers are making. They’re just not buying into that segment any more. And it’s not a function of Australia. It’s a function of anywhere in the world. That segment is shrinking.

“So the new large car – in a big way – is sort of the C/D car. And beyond the C/D car you’re getting into a very small piece of the market.

“We’ve had some success in the US with the Taurus, and there’s always somewhere in the world that will buy (into large cars), but to sustain that over the next 10 years will be really tough, I think."

So, let me take another run at this from a different direction.
Australia's annual new vehicle sales are roughly 1 million and of that, Large cars make up around 8%.
Similarly, Mid Sized Cars have been pretty stable at 8% even though the cars are almost as big as large cars.

What if we had one vehicle that could bridge those two markets with merely an increase in engine size?
What of that new car was just ever so slightly smaller than the current Falcon, so it still felt roomy?
And what to do with a companion Mid Sized SUV that's needed here, the USA and maybe globally?

Combining Mid and Large Car segments with one basic vehicle opens up a potential 160,000 vehicles/year.
Consider that we haven't said anything about FWD or RWD up to this stage, there is a lot of scope here
and I think Ford brass is willing to look at any strategy that can effectively cover the large car market
both here and in the USA and then there's the thought of combining with Mustang or not at all, which way to go?

Pretty sure that a lot of Ford fans have ideas set in their minds which way they would like the outcome to fall
but if the vitality of Ford and it local manufacturing is at stake, then maybe some tough decisions are needed.

Adding Mid Sized Cars to Large cars and the Mid Sized SUV and those three segments are 25% of the market
or access to roughly 250,000 sales, three vehicles having that much access makes for a good business plan.
25-33% 0f those sales could possibly mean 60,000 to 80,000 sales a year to Ford.

Either way, we are going to get some great vehicles coming our way in the next four years...

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by jpd80

...

What if we had one vehicle that could bridge those two markets with merely an increase in engine size?...

Do Toyota consider Aurion/Camry to do this ? - Does it work ?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

Do Toyota consider Aurion/Camry to do this ? - Does it work ?

So because it doesn't work for Toyota, it musn't for Ford and Holden?

With respect, I think Toyota have serious perception issues with Camry and Aurion, apart from Govco
sales Camry would be a flop but that doesn't mean that a combined vehicle strategy is also a flop

and I never said that the Ford vehicles had to be FWD either...

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by jpd80

So because it doesn't work for Toyota, it musn't for Ford and Holden?

With respect, I think Toyota have serious perception issues with Camry and Aurion, apart from Govco
sales Camry would be a flop but that doesn't mean that a combined vehicle strategy is also a flop

and I never said that the Ford vehicles had to be FWD either...

Sorry was actually an honest question.
I think your proposal is a good one, and I suspect Ford are thinking that way too (with the I4T).

Hmmm ... just to water the seed ...
Imagine something closer than the TE/XE - the 2015 "Cortina" with perhaps doors and windows the same, but forward of the cabin and rearward of the cabin it would be smaller. It would also perhaps have a modified floor pan to make it narrower. But run the same electrics, steering suspension. Then take the Falcon, and make it a little bigger, but not a fairlane.

[blk6t]

Originally Posted by BrisVegas

I'm no expert, but I can see the RWD large/sports sedan becoming a niche market. It's pretty obvious that mainstream market has moved on from buying large sedans and now buy more upspec small/medium cars. I don't think it will be long before Focus and Mondeo sell in higher volume than Falcon.

If Falcon can share underpinnings with the next Mustang, then that's a good thing and would allow the Falcon sedan and Mustang coupe to be sold alongside each other both here and in America. There'll always be demand for a RWD performance vehicles.

I don't know what that means for Territory. If the medium/large SUV model becomes the Explorer then that will annoy those who buy Territory as a tow vehicle. However, I think the T6 Everest will fill that niche and offer up some competition to Prado/Challenger/Pathfiner etc.

If I won lotto and could buy a couple of upcoming Ford vehicles to suit our needs, it would be a T6 Everest kitted out at ARB for offroading and camping etc. plus an economical Mondeo or Focus diesel for my wife to run about town.

EDIT: If I had to choose just one vehicle, it would be the Everest for my wife to commute in and I'd be catching the bus (pretty much what our situation is now).

Well said, but do we even need a Falcon as a performance car?

Beyond the 2016 deadline and with the new Fusion/Mondeo model around the corner, these cars can do what the Falcon already does except in FWD form and the general public clearly doesn't really care if a car is FWD or RWD.

You are right in saying that there will always be a demand for RWD performance cars but the Mustang can be that car in Australia if incorporated with a adequate IRS setup. I don't see why the Mustangs can't be built in Thailand or if we are lucky here and sold to the Australian and Asian markets.

Ford already have most other segments covered on a global basis.

[BrisVegas]

Originally Posted by blk6t

Well said, but do we even need a Falcon as a performance car?

Beyond the 2016 deadline and with the new Fusion/Mondeo model around the corner, these cars can do what the Falcon already does except in FWD form and the general public clearly doesn't really care if a car is FWD or RWD.

You are right in saying that there will always be a demand for RWD performance cars but the Mustang can be that car in Australia if incorporated with a adequate IRS setup. I don't see why the Mustangs can't be built in Thailand or if we are lucky here and sold to the Australian and Asian markets.

Ford already have most other segments covered on a global basis.

Ford seem all about plugging gaps in their lineup lately. They don't really have something that competes with the luxury/performance saloons from BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus et al. Sedan practicalities as much as perception make me think a coupe won't cover all bases in Europe. And as for Australia, I think we've got a pretty strong fan base for performance sedans. The Americans are more used to "performance" and "coupe" thanks to countless great Mustangs, Corvettes, Camaros etc....

Interesting times ahead for sure. I hope we get the Mustang here and I hope our Falcon plays a part in a sports luxury variant for Ford globally.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

Sorry was actually an honest question.
I think your proposal is a good one, and I suspect Ford are thinking that way too (with the I4T).

Hmmm ... just to water the seed ...
Imagine something closer than the TE/XE - the 2015 "Cortina" with perhaps doors and windows the same, but forward of the cabin and rearward of the cabin it would be smaller. It would also perhaps have a modified floor pan to make it narrower. But run the same electrics, steering suspension. Then take the Falcon, and make it a little bigger, but not a fairlane.

This is where I feel Ford's Ecoboost strategy is flawed in that respect. With Ecoboost, Ford had a golden opportunity to differentiate the 4 pot Falcon from the normal ones by giving it different styling etc, and it would have introduced a faux-3rd vehicle line to the plant, much like what Toyota do with the Camry and Aurion. They could have then dropped the Falcon XT and maybe G6 and left the 6cyl and V8 Falcons as the niche performance/luxury range and the I4T "Falcon" (lets call it a Fusion) could have taken on the Fleet sales and private sales who want a larger car without the fuel consumption of one and the size of an SUV.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

Sorry was actually an honest question.
I think your proposal is a good one, and I suspect Ford are thinking that way too (with the I4T).

Yeah didn't mean to make the response overly caustic but others are probably asking the same thing re Camry/Aurion comparison.
The point is to start with basically an attractive vehicle that has good design and loaded with tech and accessories.

Hmmm ... just to water the seed ...
Imagine something closer than the TE/XE - the 2015 "Cortina" with perhaps doors and windows the same, but forward of the cabin and rearward of the cabin it would be smaller. It would also perhaps have a modified floor pan to make it narrower. But run the same electrics, steering suspension. Then take the Falcon, and make it a little bigger, but not a fairlane.

Now you're getting it, one basic design that's flexible to cover two segments. Instead
of a potential Falcon-Fairlane, we need a Cortina-Falcon or Fusion-Falcon pairing.

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

This is where I feel Ford's Ecoboost strategy is flawed in that respect. With Ecoboost, Ford had a golden opportunity to differentiate the 4 pot Falcon from the normal ones by giving it different styling etc, and it would have introduced a faux-3rd vehicle line to the plant, much like what Toyota do with the Camry and Aurion. They could have then dropped the Falcon XT and maybe G6 and left the 6cyl and V8 Falcons as the niche performance/luxury range and the I4T "Falcon" (lets call it a Fusion) could have taken on the Fleet sales and private sales who want a larger car without the fuel consumption of one and the size of an SUV.

I'm sure FoA would have loved to have sufficient funds to do that but unfortunately, times are tight....
The Falcon Ecoboost is clearly just putting the EB I-4 in a Falcon with the least amount of cost,
I'm really surprised that they changed grille.....

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Now you're getting it, one basic design that's flexible to cover two segments. Instead of a potential Falcon-Fairlane, we need a Cortina-Falcon or Fusion-Falcon pairing.

This is where I think Zeta's downfall was and will be. Large-Large instead of Medium-Large or Medium-Upper Medium.

[Luke Plaizier]

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

This is where I feel Ford's Ecoboost strategy is flawed in that respect. With Ecoboost, Ford had a golden opportunity to differentiate the 4 pot Falcon from the normal ones by giving it different styling etc, and it would have introduced a faux-3rd vehicle line to the plant, much like what Toyota do with the Camry and Aurion. They could have then dropped the Falcon XT and maybe G6 and left the 6cyl and V8 Falcons as the niche performance/luxury range and the I4T "Falcon" (lets call it a Fusion) could have taken on the Fleet sales and private sales who want a larger car without the fuel consumption of one and the size of an SUV.

I agree completely with this.


Lukeyson