AutoCar Battle: BMW M5 vs. Vauxhall VXR8(GTS)

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by Uwish

Really???
Our M5 V10 E60 with Hatgage 21" rims ran 12.3 for the 1/4 mile and was
stock and a rock ( Driveline ...no tune / no after market exhaust / BMC Air filters ect ect )
Insanely quick for a car back in 2006.

Yeah mate, at Wanneroo Raceway it did. I was fairly much underwhelmed... Don't get me wrong, great car and all, but I thought it was a fairly ho hum experience for the 200k money.

[cheap]

I'm having a difficult time understanding the point of the comparison - since the cars are clearly aimed at two different markets.

To me the BMW will be bought by the up end market (doctor, dentist, tax cheat) where <5% of these owners might think about getting the car drifting. Of course drug and porn lords could boost up a few extra percentage.

Whilst I see the majority of Vauxhall (GTS) owners will at least at some point in time give the thing a flogging.

[dragons90]

They mention the torque vectoring in one of the other reviews on autocar.

The VXR8 has torque vectoring, braking an inside wheel to reduce understeer, but it only works in one of the chassis settings, and only if you’re on the power slightly: in other words, if you’re in a long sweeper, or being a bit hamfisted.

Better, instead, to ease down on the brakes towards a corner, keep them trailed in as you turn, to settle the nose and quell some of the inevitable understeer, and then get back on the gas. That’s how this car wants to be driven: the traditional, correct way. And driven like that, for a big saloon it’s particularly impressive. Oh, and if you want bit smokey skids? You can have them. Any time. It has cafeteria oversteer: help yourself
.

In other words its a gimmick that isn't needed if you driving the car correctly.

[furiousgibbon]

don't write off Steve cause he made the flappy paddle remark, he is a good driver and a good reviewer. I found it an odd statement as well, but it's becoming the norm and when you drive so many supercars and you go back to an H pattern manual, it would feel like a tractor. There's a certain level of power where a sequential gearbox is really beneficial when trying to get the most performance from the car.

I was surprised by the straight line speed, I wouldn't expect the M5 to walk away like that considering the inferior power to weight ratio. The GTS seems to dyno low as well, is HSV making up power figures? Seems a bit lackluster for nearly 600bhp.

I actually saw a GTS in traffic today, pointed it out to my wife and said 'new GTS, that is pretty cool', she looks up from her phone and without hesitation said 'no it's not it looks like it's wearing a nappy!'. I couldn't stop laughing, I've heard that line before but she hasn't, it was just the first thing that came to her mind. HSV should have done some market research, the wives often have a lot of say in that kind of purchase.

[Wretched]

Ok from my viewing of the clip this is what i took from it.

• The sliding was a point to show how capable, how direct and how refined the M5 is. On the street you can't really see it, both are too similar. Steve even said that. On the limit is where the extra money in development shows. He even stated that.
• The advantage the M5 has (again it was clearly mentioned) is the low down availability of it's torque. Far earlier and over a longer time, the advantage of a boosted motor.
• His flappy paddle comment was more from my interpretation regarding the poor quality of the mnaual available in the GTS. If it had the gearbox from a Cayman/911 I think he would have left that comment out. It seems like the manual hampered the driveability of the GTS moreso than the M5.

I thought it was a fair review and like I said before (and even like Steve said) there is nothing wrong with the GTS, it is just the M5 is that much better.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by dragons90

They mention the torque vectoring in one of the other reviews on autocar.
In other words its a gimmick that isn't needed if you driving the car correctly.

You don't spend thousands of engineering hours on gimmicks

[SensationFG8]

But you can spend 1000's of engineering hours on something that is not useful or not what it was quite intended to be.

[strik9]

well i consider the vectoring to be unreal, not sure i,d say its a gimmick. i,m sure there is a long list of top end cars with it, and its not for show its a drivers aid and it works

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by cheap

I'm having a difficult time understanding the point of the comparison - since the cars are clearly aimed at two different markets.

To me the BMW will be bought by the up end market (doctor, dentist, tax cheat) where <5% of these owners might think about getting the car drifting. Of course drug and porn lords could boost up a few extra percentage.

Whilst I see the majority of Vauxhall (GTS) owners will at least at some point in time give the thing a flogging.

Why is it so hard to understand? the M5 is not 200K+ over there..
A UK doctor may buy the GTS because nobody else's has one...
and they may like the raw feel of the car, where as the BMW has so many electronics driving it for you.

The perception here in Australia for a Merc or BMW is different in Europe where they are used as Taxis and company cars.

they targeted buyers are the same, at lease they are for Vauxhall..

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Sox

How does a joke of a test like this determine which car is better?

Chucking skids?

Maybe because Holden shout "euro beater"

This "real world tested" GTS only managed 4.9 0-100

Holden claims amazing handling with torsion diffs and so on....

The M5 actually sounds like a v8.

And rolling acceleration tests take big power traction problems out of the equation.

[Chopped]

Strange, in this test they rate the M5 as better but Autocar then also rates the GTS as the best in an earlier comparo which has the same M5 in it !

"But now a British magazine has jumped on the bandwagon. Autocar has named the Vauxhall VXR8 (aka HSV GTS) its choice in a five-car comparo against such august competition as the Mercedes-Benz E 63 AMG S, the BMW M5 with Competition Pack and the Audi RS6 Avant.
And the wonder from Down Under even blacked the eye of local hero the Jaguar XFR-S. "

http://www.carsales.com.au/news/larg...top-pick-43335

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by Chopped

Strange, in this test they rate the M5 as better but Autocar then also rates the GTS as the best in an earlier comparo which has the same M5 in it !

"But now a British magazine has jumped on the bandwagon. Autocar has named the Vauxhall VXR8 (aka HSV GTS) its choice in a five-car comparo against such august competition as the Mercedes-Benz E 63 AMG S, the BMW M5 with Competition Pack and the Audi RS6 Avant.
And the wonder from Down Under even blacked the eye of local hero the Jaguar XFR-S. "

http://www.carsales.com.au/news/larg...top-pick-43335

maybe its just too big a task to spread money,favours and press tickled cars so far around the world all at once. In fact when was the last time there was a car so win one day loose the next, aswell as the fact theres a almost a full second between acceleration times from diff tests.
seriously....nearly a whole second....I cant think of one car with such a large margin of performance. certainly not one with fat tyres and launch ctrl

[chevypower]

I wish the Commodore and Camaro had the new LT1 in it.

[rancidpunx]

Originally Posted by Chopped

Strange, in this test they rate the M5 as better but Autocar then also rates the GTS as the best in an earlier comparo which has the same M5 in it !

"But now a British magazine has jumped on the bandwagon. Autocar has named the Vauxhall VXR8 (aka HSV GTS) its choice in a five-car comparo against such august competition as the Mercedes-Benz E 63 AMG S, the BMW M5 with Competition Pack and the Audi RS6 Avant.
And the wonder from Down Under even blacked the eye of local hero the Jaguar XFR-S. "

http://www.carsales.com.au/news/larg...top-pick-43335

Shame that carsales/motoring didn't provide a link as I cant find anything on Autocar to back up what they have written. Sounds more like some Holden advertising. According the Autocars site on the GTS review it does not even position in the top 5 saloons, Jag XFR, AMG C63, Audi RS4 Avant, Alpina D5, M5. Motoring were after all the dodgy cocks that did the drag race against the Rspec but edited the video.

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by rancidpunx

Shame that carsales/motoring didn't provide a link as I cant find anything on Autocar to back up what they have written. Sounds more like some Holden advertising. According the Autocars site on the GTS review it does not even position in the top 5 saloons, Jag XFR, AMG C63, Audi RS4 Avant, Alpina D5, M5. Motoring were after all the dodgy cocks that did the drag race against the Rspec but edited the video.

The write up seems kinda misleading, to me it looks like autocar haven't done a head to head with all those cars at all but carsales is pulling scores from the individual reviews or something. Even though they have reviewed and rated the GTS 4.5 stars out of 5 I doubt it would rate that well in a head to head comparision with those other cars.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/...t-drive-review

[fgpsi]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

The write up seems kinda misleading, to me it looks like autocar haven't done a head to head with all those cars at all but carsales is pulling scores from the individual reviews or something. Even though they have reviewed and rated the GTS 4.5 stars out of 5 I doubt it would rate that well in a head to head comparision with those other cars.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/...t-drive-review

Gotta love this pommy reply from comments page:

This car is totally irrelevant in this day and age, the same as all the mercs and bmws in the same size category. Looking at the sheer size of those seats you could only assume they were built for those ugly over weight white collar fat pigs with bear guts that have not seen there privite parts for a long while.......it's disgusting......it's really is. Cars in this class are just fat over weight hunks of useless metal that should be placed on the scrap heap ASAP. A total waste of time and money you will never get back. Best to burn them and be done with it and put them out of the publics misery.

[devoGT]

Originally Posted by 40RDT

The write up seems kinda misleading, to me it looks like autocar haven't done a head to head with all those cars at all but carsales is pulling scores from the individual reviews or something. Even though they have reviewed and rated the GTS 4.5 stars out of 5 I doubt it would rate that well in a head to head comparision with those other cars.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/...t-drive-review

I found the review where they make some sort of comparison between them.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/anyth...it-astonishing

here's another review 0-100 in 4.1s

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/vauxhall/vxr8

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by devoGT

I found the review where they make some sort of comparison between them.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/anyth...it-astonishing

here's another review 0-100 in 4.1s

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/vauxhall/vxr8

Lol that second one is just a patchwork article aswell. Doesn't even seem like he's driven it. And he certainly hasn't had it at the track......although he still is quoted "it'll to AROUND 4.1 to 100". What a comedian! It'll also do around 5secs to 100 aswell

[40RDT]

Originally Posted by devoGT

I found the review where they make some sort of comparison between them.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/blogs/anyth...it-astonishing

here's another review 0-100 in 4.1s

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/vauxhall/vxr8

It would be good to read the shootout that the GTS won against those cars but I cant seem to find it on the Autocar website?

4.1 is a very good time, seems a little vague though saying it does it in "about" 4.1 seconds.

Here is another head to head with the Merc E63. 0-100 in 4.55 seconds is pretty good time for the manual, an auto would have been interesting

http://youtu.be/7X-rKtDOF5U